47 replies to this topic

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

The expectation is simple...





Push into the circle and bring the pain.

[knight-of-ni]

Xaat Xuun, on 30 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

well now I see why Mediums get no love

Fast mediums are my favorite weight class nowadays, and I'm always looking for a friendly assault mech to support!

[Xaat Xuun]

Count Zero 74, on 31 August 2016 - 11:27 AM, said:

Its simple, in Quick Play the role of the assaults is to get left behind when the team starts to Nascar and then get picked of by some Lights/Mediums.

the only acceptable mode to seeing that happen is Domination Mode, Fast Lights and Mediums that is their job, is to start the clock, not wait for the Slow walkers.
They need to maintain presence inside the circle too keep the enemies clock from running or yours to keep ticking down

[JC Daxion]

Others have touched on it.. It is all about sharing armor. It is fine to be a long range/sniping mech, But if you don't help with sharing armor, Or putting yourself in harms way in a push, then in the end you are only doing half of what you could to help the team. Two parts to this game are getting shot at, and shooting at the enemy.

So for example, an LRM, or long range assault, could actually lead out first, with a push, or when a push comes, and take some shots. This frees up damage that a medium or heavy does not have to take. After doing this a bit, Retreat.

Don't do this by peaking around corners one by one.. (this one drives me frigging crazy!!!) when a couple mechs are around a corner and people walk up, shoot, and then back up immediately, blocking the way, and blocking shots from the second row.. ect.. Doing that on a firing line is a sure way to die.


Say an assault, with a medium or heavy brawler and something else.. Is standing at a corner, If you all just peak around and take a shot, the 3 on the other side has the advantage, and focuses and kills you..

Now, if you all walk around the corner at once.. Say assault first, assault stays tight, the heavy should go next pushing on the outside shoulder, while the medium goes last and makes a straffing run to take other fire, Push um hard and brawl um from the flank/behind.. Any time mechs turn that is a good thing. good pushed and directed fire are the way to win battles often, Good snipers, and long range mechs still need to use up some of their armor early.. Snipe, then move up, take some hits, loose 30% of your armor, help a fellow out. Then move back and go back to your tasks.. You can tank at long range on many maps. But again it has to do with, you tanking, and the team firing at what is firing at you.

But again, that senario could of been walking around a corner at 600m, and medium is running like crazy using terrain for cover to flank, firing shots along the way. The medium gets to get close, because the enemy is firing on the assault out in the open, plugging away. Hopefully that brawler can get close by the time you are then dropping back, or taking some cover as some LRM's come, or even just long range shots.

Call targets, communicate, ect.. PUG life, this is an entire crap shoot, and most people don't even bother to talk until they died and complain about everyone not being mid readers.. Call shots, call locations, give info.. If your on a group that doesn't listen/react, i typically stop caring, if it all goes down into a big flaming pile because 5 mechs rushed behind everyone, after ya said, incoming from e5.. ohh well.



I think ya get the idea.. Basically ending the match at 100 damage in anything but a light.. and even they should of taken some fire.. good light pilots always do.. Rotating lines is another way.. A group of 4 pushes around a corner, then they all reverse, and another group takes it';s place,,

but again, this all takes communication,, and best place for that is not pugs, it's in a unit. There are lots of options for this.. Look for one that suits what you are looking for. Or just deal with Pug life, you will hear nerd rage from time to time..

[John1352]

Get all the assaults in a firing line in the open. They have more firepower and more armor.

[Koniving]

Maybe not blatantly in the open. But there is no denying that the more targets there are the harder it is to deal with them.

I do miss the 8 vs 8 days. Battles were much more tactical, and the loss of a few mechs wasn't as much of a death sentence.


Down 2? Win anyway. An ongoing push solves most problems.

But push into a flank, not the front unless the front is broken.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Koniving, on 01 September 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Maybe not blatantly in the open. But there is no denying that the more targets there are the harder it is to deal with them.

I do miss the 8 vs 8 days. Battles were much more tactical, and the loss of a few mechs wasn't as much of a death sentence.


Down 2? Win anyway. An ongoing push solves most problems.

But push into a flank, not the front unless the front is broken.

I absolutelly miss 8x8!!!

Pgi please bring back 8x8!!! Those were the funnest days for me! TTK was perfect during that era!

#BringBack8v8MWO

[Morggo]

I like most all the advice from everyone here, as usual (my second year and I still read daily not only to offer advice but to keep learning myself!)

So, I often view Assaults in the "Tank" role often associated with MMO's like WoW/DDO/etc. Sure they can dish out damage, but what they really do well is roll and/or absorb damage. That is their primary job in my mind... sharing all those tons of glorious armour most don't have. And when that push comes, they are still up and ready to lay out some serious pain along with all the other mech's that still have armour left and are up due to the fatties sharing. Which doesn't work if all the Assaults have been crouching behind walls pew pewing the occasional ER or PPC imho.

I am always watching my fatties (first thing I do at match start other than Dom. is move directly to the Assault lance and swing into support formation with them) on the mini map. As soon as I see the first one moving ahead I assume push and swing up with them. An Assault with support will result in success far more often than watching that poor lone Assault move up and wither under focus fire. So if you are IN an Assault, use your comms... find someone willing to link up and support you. Even a two man push, in the right conditions, can be effective. I often see medium lances break and run when just my heavy and a buddy assault suddenly push up. (back shots, love 'em!) Point is.. never be afraid to speak up on comms. You don't even have to be the drop caller, if I see someone I have admired performing well in other drops, I'll just ask if they want to link up.. or as you lancemate "hey bravo lance, you guys want to stick together and push over into Echo 5, looks like we'll push from there"

If you play with buddies, one tactic that's been working great the past few months.... I run a heavy, buddy runs assault (usually his King) I run staggered behind him just on his 5 o'clock. My job is to watch our back while focusing what he's shooting.
Also, and his is really fun... at a corner. He'll pause, I'll swing around his shoulder to take a look and trade a few shots and since I'm much faster pull back around the corner. about 70% of the time the enemy takes the bait and there's an assault supported by a heavy waiting for them. Many don't survive, and we continue on around the corner and continue our mini push.

Guess my point in these examples.. there are definitely roles for Assaults and heavies. And, again my opinion, it isn't sitting in the rear behind building poking all game. They are the solid core/backbone in a push. Nothing is more scary to see rolling over that hill than several Assaults with some heavies in tow, and a bunch of mediums/lights swarming around poking in and out of cover as the advance steadily. That same push without the Assaults is nowhere near as intimidating.

[Morggo]

On a related example, I'll share another from last night.

It was 3-4 late match, we were at a weight disadvantage so, you know, things didn't look promising. Especially since our Mauler was weaponless. He was beat to hell but not CT critical. Our remaining lights/mediums pushed the last push and I spectated the Mauler to see what they'd do. While they did hesitate a few seconds... they made a good choice and slammed the throttle forward and headed up the saddle. We had a light and a med pinned down, the Mauler crested and started twisting their way toward the enemy. Guess what? Yep, even though the light and med was on the ropes, they turned, said "OH! Big scary!" and started to trade with the Mauler.

The rest.. yeah, our smalls finished mopping up. That Mauler, in my opinion, swung the battle.... with no weapons, just armour There ya go.

(side lesson for all... use 'R'... if they enemy had just targeted the Mauler they'd have seen he was no viable threat and finished off our smalls.... )

[SnagaDance]

Stefan Vorell, on 31 August 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

What I've found to be the most enjoyable pacing is to move up to a good firing spot with cover along with the other assaults and maybe two mediums or lights. (Believe it or not I have the occassional team where they dont just run off and leave us in the dust) Then, once the numbers have thinned and a stalemate has started to form I flank and push, mopping up already damaged mechs.

This is actually a thing that people may complain about, and they'd have a point. Depending on how well you're placing shots from that position or drawing enemy fire, you can be said to not putting out the damage or sharing the armor. Only to emerge later and clean up enemy mechs that were already damaged by your (demised) team mates.

Back when challenges often had a Kill requirement instead of Kill most Damage you'd see this kind of behaviour on purpose. Assault hanging back during the match only going forward after the team is already winning or when they're about the only one left on their team and then focussing on the most damaged enemy mechs, in total disregard for winning the match.

It's a very delicate balance that ties into those other good Assault pilot skills: good map awareness, good situational awareness, and determining likely tipping points. And sometimes those tipping points mean you need to take one for the team.

As an extreme example: I was playing my Atlas-S this week for the challenge that is/was going on, need to get some KMD's, good damage numbers and corresponding good match scores/C-bills, an Assault helps me get those things. Suddenly I end up in a match where I hardly saw any unit tags in the pre-match screen. I only saw 3 of them, and that was including my own. I was pretty certain I had ended up in a match with mostly tier 5 people.
The gameplay confirmed it. Had another assault go for some wide scouting 'run', people were disorganized, even the slightest laser graze led to cowering etc. Pretty soon the whole team was in cover doing stupid predictable poking, and me there with my 270m optimal range mech...
I knew something had to be done, I knew that if I went out there I'd eat a lot of damage before I got into range. But I also had a pretty good idea on where most of the enemy mechs were and how I could cut behind some buildings and then a hill to minimize that incoming damage as much as possible and end up on their flank. (this was on Grim Plexus btw)

I also knew that this was very likely to end in my death. Communication had be unresponsive up to that point so I doubted even a "Pushing now!" command would help. But I went out there, took the damage and got in the enemy his flank. First a Marauder's rear, got two alphas off, turns out he was using an XL, not good for him. A Jenner IIC comes around a corner and hits me with SRMs. Alpha to the CT and dead, must have suffered earlier damage. A few second to cool off but the enemy has noticed me. A Catapult, Hunchback, Timberwolf and Cyclops appear. I'm twisting like hell and loosing Alphas while trying to not overheat. The Splatcat retreats after losing a side torso but his bulging out CT cannot escape, another kill. The timby pilot is a lot better, he moves and changes elevation on the slope, twists and retreats, he gets damaged but not seriously in any one location. Meanwhile I scare of the Hunchback by opening up his CT. The Cyclops had been doing a scared 'poke from the same corner of a building' tactic and he'd quickly lost most of his weapons with his side torso (no twisting from him either). I decided to charge him and use that building to hide from some of his other friends (unless they were coming up from behind that building but I hardly had any armor left as it was. I killed him (got that Chess Knight this way, nice) but it left me wide open for more of their reinforcements. Dead.

But. Two of my team mates had (rather late) decided to follow in my footsteps and managed to quickly kill that Hunchback and also the Timberwolf who was still focussed on me. And suddenly (or maybe after those 6 kills) the rest of the team put on their bravery pants and we smashed the red team. Huzzah!

4 kills and a (for me) record 6 KMD's from that single battle. (not a single word of praise though, oh well)

In this case I carried a team. Usually I just do my part as the rest is also competent enough (and I don't manage to abuse the also more competent opponent as much). But even so there's always reading the map and the battle, and making sure I share armor and use that firepower. I try to save my armor to make that firepower last longer but sometimes you just need to die (or simply can't avoid death). It comes with being an Assault pilot.

Regardless. There will always be people moaning about how it was the fault of others that they died so soon or that the team lost. Ignore them for the most part. They are often blind to their own faults (and thus their own part in their demise/loss)

[Morggo]

SnagaDance, on 01 September 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

Regardless. There will always be people moaning about how it was the fault of others that they died so soon or that the team lost. Ignore them for the most part. They are often blind to their own faults (and thus their own part in their demise/loss)

....nod, nod, agree and all that stuff....

...But always keep the quoted wise words above in mind

Edited by Morggo, 01 September 2016 - 07:37 AM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

The following post is entirelly ment for solo-que puglandia since team play should be much more coordinated and dynamic.

---------------
---------------

it is very important to understand... It is NOT the assaults role to be a sacrifice.

This is a very big misconception a lot of non-assault pilots have.

A lot of non-assault pilots expect assault mechs to go jump infront of enemy bullets so they can be impervious to damage.

This is wrong! Absolutelly wrong!

---------------
---------------

As others have stated, sharing armor is a very important technique that "helps" in winning games.

The mechs with the highest current armor values "should" be taking the Brunt of the enemy attack. Please note the plueral of "mechs". It doesnt matter if its assaults in the front or heavies or mediums or what ever.

As armor values drop, other mechs should step up to the plate and help blockade incoming damage because armor values are finite.

Even heavily damaged mechs can still contribute to the fight so keeping ally mechs alive is vital! When ever there is a mech disparity between two teams, the team with the most active mechs generally has the highest chances of winning due to weight of fire.

[Lolo van Trollinger]

In the PUG Land the job of the Assault is to serve as target practice for locust pilots looking to increase their damage dealt when rummaging behind enemy lines. *evil grin*

In any real team they (heavy _and_ assaults) should be at the core of the actions (dealing and taking damage, as a group), while the skirmishers (light and medium) keep their rear clean, mop up the damaged and try to flank to open up opportunities for weakness in enemy lines for the assaults. which in turn need to push those weaknesses hard. and keep in mind to focus targets fired upon.

Edited by Lolo van Trollinger, 01 September 2016 - 10:01 AM.

[Besh]

Stefan Vorell, on 30 August 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

I played a few rounds last night where some of the light mech pilots were giving the assaults grief for playing conservatively and sticking behind cover.

[...]

I admit to cherrypicking much .

The amount of Games that can/could be won instead of lost IF the Standingaround-Online.com 'Mechs ( mostly Assaults in the kind of Game I am referring to ) simply push into the enemy when a Light says "we got in their back and are mixing them up, at least 5 of them have turned to us, just push over the Ridge and you got them" is staggering .

It is also pretty frustrating if you - the Light Pilot(s) - keep that up for 2, 3 minutes without dieing, more and more enemies turn towards you, you keep repeating your call...and your Team decides to trickle in one after the other AFTER you have been killed .

Another favourite of mine when in a Light is: running to a position where a Lance, or even half my team, seems to be locked in a stalemate behind some corner, ridge, hill - you name it . All just standing there, shooting nothing . And I run over, and its the 20t 'Mech who has to poke around that corner/ridge/hill, and tell those guys playing Standingaround-Online.com : "There are only 3 Enemies around that corner, just PUSH and you will have them easy !" I mean: UAV or so maybe ?

Generally, I get frustrated by Pilots - does not matter the weight Class - who seem to play to avoid getting shot...and NOT to shoot the enemies . Those players are frustrating to play with, and the ensuing Games hard to bear .

I think "Target saturation" is as much a concept which desperately needs to be explained in the Academy as "Focus Fire" and "Lock Target" .

Edited by Besh, 01 September 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

So I'm in my raven...
*pew pew*
*pew*

Over the comms the command comes in "PUSH" ...

Nothing worse than being in a light mech, and following the command to push...
Thinking you're doing this:


But in reality its more like this:

[ImperialKnight]

Assault rule of thumb: if your armor is fresh or just yellow by the time half your team is dead, you're doing it wrong.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Sky1, on 30 August 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

Seems to me that when I try that in my heavy I find much of my team abandons me or the other team concentrates fire on the assaut/heavys only. The last few games I did hold back per our Lance Leader and did not push forward until instructed to do so. We annihilated the other team. Maybe this is wrong but sometimes I prefer to be very defensive until I am confident of where most the opposing team is hiding out.

Sir, I also prefer the tactics of the great General James Longstreet and Sir Arther Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington. Take a good defensive position, then counter attack.

When I hear people complaining about not being on Comms, I also hear "well, since they were not doing it, I was not going to do it either!". So my question is when and how often do you speak up? I start in the first loading screen. I say hello and remind everyone that a team that talks is a team that wins. I start again when we exit the drop ship. My time as an Army Officer showed me that a lot of people are looking and will wait, for guidance.

I've explained in 100's of games what a "firing line" is. And the difference between it and a column of people in a single file line. Although it seems to be impossible to keep anyone in a Lance, I've gotten players to act like a Fire Team and even do bounding overwatches. Early on, I try to find the "leaders" on the team as well as find out who has and who uses Comms. I remind people that a 12-year-old (in my case held together by duct tape) Mic is better than none at all. And I will have people asking "what button is press to talk?"

I will also, in the semi right way, chastise players doing the wrong thing. Like if someone decides to run to or stay on the Island of Death while the rest of us move on. Or someone that for some reason is going off wide by themselves. I will say something like "you are going to die there alone" and 80% of the time they come and join the rest of us.

I try to talk to and get talking back, at least one player in each Lance. If you have not spoken up in the first 2 minutes, why would you think anyone would listen or speak up 5-6 minutes in?

I can see the mixture of Lights, Mediums, Heavys and Assault working in a form of the Tirplex Acies.



When I play the "IRON DOME", my Kit Fox I act as a shepherd, keeping together and "protecting" my folk of Heavys and Assaults. Often is like herding Cats but it mostly works. I will run back and escort that one lost/and/or slow assault. I will sit and state at them until they come up with the others. I also SPEAK to them and not DOWN to them.

And I admit, when playing a light or any mech, I'm gotten mad at assault pilots from time to time. I'm down to 53% while trying to stay in the circle and I see Mechs 500Ms away in a safe trench firing LRMs into hills. A few months ago we were in River City and I was covering the Assaults and we both were down 4 and I noticed an Altas still behind a building and he was at 100% health. A few minutes later we were down by one and his health was 98%. He was not firing LRMs so I wondered what and the heck he was doing. So I started prodding him. Which moved to downright shaming him. I reminded him that he cannot "really die", this is a GAME.

One thing I will say to some is "you might die last hiding and not getting into the fight, but you are going to die, you are just going to do it alone and unloved".

[762 NATO]

This seems like a great place to put up the "GROG Corps is recruiting" link, but I lost it. Look us up on the forum! LUG and JC Daxion in particular here. Learn the tactics of a bunch of grownups that only call targets and move in small groups! Or a death ball if we are outnumbered in the drop. We ain't high a tier-meta-only players and have fun representing the Corps. And we have a fantastic tactic called "What tactic, kill em!" That is unusually successful until we run into EmP, 228s Black Watch or (sometimes) -MS-. No shaming on MS, they are just so big that sometimes you don't find a comp team. And Kcom seems to be staying in SeeDubs, so no worries there.

[TooDumbToQuit]

762 NATO, on 06 September 2016 - 09:38 PM, said:

This seems like a great place to put up the "GROG Corps is recruiting" link, but I lost it. Look us up on the forum! LUG and JC Daxion in particular here. Learn the tactics of a bunch of grownups that only call targets and move in small groups! Or a death ball if we are outnumbered in the drop. We ain't high a tier-meta-only players and have fun representing the Corps. And we have a fantastic tactic called "What tactic, kill em!" That is unusually successful until we run into EmP, 228s Black Watch or (sometimes) -MS-. No shaming on MS, they are just so big that sometimes you don't find a comp team. And Kcom seems to be staying in SeeDubs, so no worries there.

Thanks 7.62 NATO.

I am in a Unit that puts up with me, The Golden Foxes. http://darkjedi.org/club/FOX/

But I still play a lot of pugs since I'm in Tier 6 and I'm doing pilot trees and I find it hard to compete when dropping with them since the teams we play are also much better.

I did look at Grog and I like it. The only problem is that God, in her wisdom, made me Allergic to Beer. I had a bad reaction to a pain injection about 7-8 years ago. So during tonight's Bronco's-Panther game, I'll be drinking green tea.....

There were some other units I was looking at before the Golden Foxes took pity on me.

Some were more laid back like "The White Widows"(NY City based), The Lowryders" (out of L.A.), "The Northern Lights"(a Canadian based Unit), "The AK-47's" (Russian based), "Amsterdam Haze" (out of the Netherlands) and "The Great White Sharks (Australia/New Zealand) among others.

Other were more "Energetic" so to say. Like "Old Skool"(mostly players from the beginning of the game), "White LSD"(Logistics Support Detachment), "Super Lemon Diesel"(Detroit based) and one I really liked named "Strawberry Cough" (South Africa based).

If I can return to the game full time, I have plans to start organising "pugs" into a loose playing group called "The Other Guys" or TOG. I have a lot of friends in the game and we should start playing more together and on a TeamSpeak of our own.

Odd thing. A few days ago is this forum, I found there is a Unit that goes by TOG. I hope that that will not be a problem in the future.

[Kaptain]

Koniving, on 01 September 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

I do miss the 8 vs 8 days. Battles were much more tactical, and the loss of a few mechs wasn't as much of a death sentence.

Indeed.