43 replies to this topic

[Agent1190]

Have we heard anything about PGI adapting the Night Gyr laser heatsinks, or has it been quashed. I know the FAQ says "maybe." We're about 3 weeks from release, just wondering if there gas been an update....

Edited by Agent1190, 03 September 2016 - 04:07 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

As far as I know, no further word. I'd still like to see a visual aurora like effect when the mech gets hot, but I'm not expecting that. It should, theoretically, be easy to give it a quirk like the Hellslinger, except 100% independant of environmental heat as opposed to 50% impacted.

[Agent1190]

I figure they could easy-mode and just quirk it. I am curious about the glow mostly.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

The laser heatsinks are on NO official version of the mech, the prime version is DHS, the clans just tested the laser heat sinks on the frame but were phased out before production began. So simple answer is that LHS aren't coming and shouldn't for a while as the Night Gyr tested prototypes of them which were deemed not worth it at the time and production trundled along with DHS instead.

"The design was a testbed for some new technologies, including the Laser Heat Sink, which was eventually phased out due to a lack of increased performance." -Technical Readout: 3058 Upgrade, pp. 186-187, "Night Gyr Profile"

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 03 September 2016 - 06:15 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

i want laser ams lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 03 September 2016 - 06:27 AM.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Pariah Devalis, on 03 September 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

As far as I know, no further word. I'd still like to see a visual aurora like effect when the mech gets hot, but I'm not expecting that. It should, theoretically, be easy to give it a quirk like the Hellslinger, except 100% independant of environmental heat as opposed to 50% impacted.

According to this it should not be independant of enviroment heat.
http://www.sarna.net...Laser_Heat_Sink

[El Bandito]

A glowing target. Gonna be easy to shoot at.

[Koniving]

Teer5, on 03 September 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

According to this it should not be independant of enviroment heat.
http://www.sarna.net...Laser_Heat_Sink

You failed to read it.

"reduces the chances of heat-based ammunition cook-off and means that laser heat sinks don't get the decreased performance on warmer worlds that single and double heat sinks have, while at the same time preventing laser heat sinks from taking advantage of immersion in water or colder weather to boost their performance. For the same reason, laser heat sinks are completely incompatible with Coolant Trucks."

Emphasis: Do not get decreased performance on warmer worlds.
In other words: no penalties to heatsink effectiveness in hot environments.
Emphasis: Cannot benefit from immersion in water or colder environments to boost performance.
On other words: No benefits from cold weather or water.

No penalties from environment.
No benefits from environment.
... = independent from environment conditions.

Also reduced heat-based ammo explosions but that doesn't apply as heat hasn't caused ammo cook off in MWO since December 2012.

Edited by Koniving, 03 September 2016 - 08:36 AM.

[Agent1190]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 03 September 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

The laser heatsinks are on NO official version of the mech, the prime version is DHS, the clans just tested the laser heat sinks on the frame but were phased out before production began. So simple answer is that LHS aren't coming and shouldn't for a while as the Night Gyr tested prototypes of them which were deemed not worth it at the time and production trundled along with DHS instead.

"The design was a testbed for some new technologies, including the Laser Heat Sink, which was eventually phased out due to a lack of increased performance." -Technical Readout: 3058 Upgrade, pp. 186-187, "Night Gyr Profile"

Well aware of Sarna.net. In the FAQ, they mention Laser Heat Sinks, but no decision has been made whether or not they will be part of the mech. That's what this post references. So quoting Sarna has nothing to do with the topic of this post.

[Davers]

I guess it depends on whether or not they want the Hellbringer to have unique traits or not. I'm guessing they do, so the Night Gyr will have regular DHS.

[Agent1190]

Davers, on 03 September 2016 - 09:54 AM, said:

I guess it depends on whether or not they want the Hellbringer to have unique traits or not. I'm guessing they do, so the Night Gyr will have regular DHS.

I guess if they decide to go with a quirk to account for Laser Heatsinks, we won't know until 3 days before release when all the quirks come out...

Since Laser Heat Sinks were tested only on the Prime prototypes, I wonder if they will be the only one to get the quirk.

[GrimRiver]

One thing I always wondered, are they REALLY lasers?

I mean do they shoot harmless beams of light at the ground or are they just getting really hot and emit powerful visible EM radiation(ie: heat) through thermal exchange?

In order for thermal exchange to take place with heatsinks that need no coolant(LHS or otherwise), they would have to be right ON the thing they're cooling if not then it would need some sort of fluid to transfer heat.

Just wondering.

I should point out I did read the LHS info but it doesn't make much sense.

"A laser heat sink uses lasers to excite the hot exhaust gasses to a higher-energy state." -
So a plasma then and what gasses, like argon?

"Converting the infrared energy of the gasses to light which is then shunted out of the 'Mech via a series of highly polished surfaces." -

Why infrared? Infrared is a long weak wavelength that likes to linger, why not ultraviolet which is short enough wavelength to carry energy away faster and diffuses faster.

And shunted out of where? The infrared energy would linger on as it's wavelength is longer where ultraviolet would already been dissipated.

Am I getting this right?

Edited by GrimRiver, 03 September 2016 - 11:52 AM.

[Intrepid]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 03 September 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

The laser heatsinks are on NO official version of the mech

The old level3 version certainly did; although then we are back to arguing what constitutes 'official'.

[FLG 01]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 03 September 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

The laser heatsinks are on NO official version of the mech, the prime version is DHS, the clans just tested the laser heat sinks on the frame but were phased out before production began. So simple answer is that LHS aren't coming and shouldn't for a while as the Night Gyr tested prototypes of them which were deemed not worth it at the time and production trundled along with DHS instead.

"The design was a testbed for some new technologies, including the Laser Heat Sink, which was eventually phased out due to a lack of increased performance." -Technical Readout: 3058 Upgrade, pp. 186-187, "Night Gyr Profile"

Sorry, but you are quoting Sarna.net, not the TRO:3058U. Sarna, while amazing, is not canon itself and sometimes a bit misleading. So it is better to actually look at the Canon sources.

And TRO:3058U reads: "The best known of the new technologies in the Night Gyr is its heat sinks which rather than serving as radiators convert excess heat in the ’Mech into light. [...] The complexities of manufacturing and maintaining this advanced system did prove to be an issue, however—they proved susceptible to damage and replacement required dedicated components rather than the generic systems favored by most Omnidesigns. As a result, field “upgrades” have seen many Night Gyrs receive conventional heat management gear, and a number of the factory-built models also feature conventional heat sinks."

In other words, early production batches simply had the LHS, as did a number of later models. And since it is the early 3050ies in game, early batches are the preferred choice.
I could go on about TRO:3058U being dated to 3070 in-universe and thus naturally speaking in hind-sight, whereas the earlier 3058 simply speaks of LHS, but I think the point is made already.

And LHS were featured plainly in record sheets:






For general information see here:

Edited by FLG 01, 03 September 2016 - 06:31 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

FLG 01, on 03 September 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Sorry, but you are quoting Sarna.net, not the TRO:3058U. Sarna, while amazing, is not canon itself and sometimes a bit misleading. So it is better to actually look at the Canon sources.

And TRO:3058U reads: "The best known of the new technologies in the Night Gyr is its heat sinks which rather than serving as radiators convert excess heat in the ’Mech into light. [...] The complexities of manufacturing and maintaining this advanced system did prove to be an issue, however—they proved susceptible to damage and replacement required dedicated components rather than the generic systems favored by most Omnidesigns. As a result, field “upgrades” have seen many Night Gyrs receive conventional heat management gear, and a number of the factory-built models also feature conventional heat sinks."

In other words, early production batches simply had the LHS, as did a number of later models. And since it is the early 3050ies in game, early batches are the preferred choice.
I could go on about TRO:3058U being dated to 3070 in-universe and thus naturally speaking in hind-sight, whereas the earlier 3058 simply speaks of LHS, but I think the point is made already.

And LHS were featured plainly in record sheets:






For general information see here:

ownt by knowledge

[Chuck Jager]

The last thing MWO needs is more battletech crap to balance. Not even dissing on BT just that most pvp games keep variable to a minimum or really simplified.

example BT fans think clans are gimped the pvp crowd has been exploiting their advantages for more than a while until we got quirks and then the pvpers exploit the OP mechs on either side and could care less about lore (this is me and it makes the game a ton easier)

[RestosIII]

Chuck Jager, on 03 September 2016 - 10:32 PM, said:

The last thing MWO needs is more battletech crap to balance. Not even dissing on BT just that most pvp games keep variable to a minimum or really simplified.

example BT fans think clans are gimped the pvp crowd has been exploiting their advantages for more than a while until we got quirks and then the pvpers exploit the OP mechs on either side and could care less about lore (this is me and it makes the game a ton easier)

I'd love to see the crying and complaining from people overheating their Night Gyr at Polar and Arctic. This needs to be a thing just for that.

[Chuck Jager]

RestosIII, on 03 September 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'd love to see the crying and complaining from people overheating their Night Gyr at Polar and Arctic. This needs to be a thing just for that.

Its called not building it too hot. Do you expect to use lore loadouts? If so I got a bridge to sell too.

[RestosIII]

Chuck Jager, on 03 September 2016 - 11:47 PM, said:

Its called not building it too hot. Do you expect to use lore loadouts? If so I got a bridge to sell too.

Considering all I run are lore loadouts, I'll gladly buy that bridge. Then sell it off to an Inner Sphere faction, right before a Clan takes the world the bridge is on. Then I'll make a contract with said Clan for maintenance on the bridge.


What were we talking about again?

[Moonlight Grimoire]

FLG 01, on 03 September 2016 - 06:29 PM, said:

Sorry, but you are quoting Sarna.net, not the TRO:3058U. Sarna, while amazing, is not canon itself and sometimes a bit misleading. So it is better to actually look at the Canon sources.

And TRO:3058U reads: "The best known of the new technologies in the Night Gyr is its heat sinks which rather than serving as radiators convert excess heat in the ’Mech into light. [...] The complexities of manufacturing and maintaining this advanced system did prove to be an issue, however—they proved susceptible to damage and replacement required dedicated components rather than the generic systems favored by most Omnidesigns. As a result, field “upgrades” have seen many Night Gyrs receive conventional heat management gear, and a number of the factory-built models also feature conventional heat sinks."

In other words, early production batches simply had the LHS, as did a number of later models. And since it is the early 3050ies in game, early batches are the preferred choice.
I could go on about TRO:3058U being dated to 3070 in-universe and thus naturally speaking in hind-sight, whereas the earlier 3058 simply speaks of LHS, but I think the point is made already.

And LHS were featured plainly in record sheets:






For general information see here:

While that is nice that is not what the updated 3058 TRO has which is considered the rules, if you look on the pre-order page as well it says Double Heat Sinks. So I think that is a nice heavy NAIL in this argument.

Here is the TRO:3058 from 1995 entry:


Here is the TRO:3058 Upgrade entry from 2005:


As you can see Laser Heatsinks are a footnote of something phased out for traditional DHS as there was no benifit according to the orginal TRO and the Updated TRO. So maybe the Tech 3 version has it, but, these TRO's have it with DHS.

So sure, whatever. Pre order page has no listing for LHS they have DHS just like the TRO's which PGI pulled from as does Sarna.net, as does megamek, as does Solaris skunkworks. So LHS as well as all all advanced tech not in MWO and won't be for quite some time. If LHS were added to MWO it would cause more balance headaches thanks to how terrible the heat system is currently with having capacity tied in with Heatsink count, let alone how high capacity starts at in MWO. So if it was DHS that always cooled at .2 heat/s regardless of the environment? EH, whatever, that is a footnote of technology beyond any other. If you want it due to it makes your mech glow? Well it is even stated mechs have equipment to make that glow effect be a non issue other than making you highlighted against your background. I also see the WizKidz stamp of approval on that record sheet so I want to know where it is coming from.

TL;DR? Meh, TRO3058 and TRO3058U both don't have the build you have which looks to be an advanced tech loadout for the prime Night Gyr, the pre order page doesn't mention Laser Heat Sinks at all, and LHS are meh other than making you easier to see when you are running warm but glowing instead of steaming.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 04 September 2016 - 12:15 AM.