50 replies to this topic

[Glythe]

If you change the game as you suggest then everyone will always be in a light. Remember that the weapons do the same damage regardless of mech size. If lights have half the heat then they are the "I win" button.

Scouts aren't built to go toe to toe with Assaults.... they spot them for allies and harass them when they can. If you want to fight assaults then you need to pick a different mech.

[JFlash49]

i dont know but, reducing it seems like an advantage.. half the heat, more opportunity to fire.. so no dude.

[Mikelius]

If that happened I would main a Puma with an ERPPC and a Large Pulse laser and laugh and laugh.

[Khobai]

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What if we did something crazy, and made it so that light and medium mechs made HALF the heat that heavy and assault mechs produced when firing energy weapons?

Assault mechs are already nerfed enough due to the lack of weapon hardpoints. They dont need to be nerfed even more by generating more heat than Lights and Mediums.

[Dymitry]

plus you can have a light with an heavy energy payload, at the expenses of something else (electronics || speed || armor). And then for mediums? And the heavies? As someone else has said, assaults seems to already have been (rightfully) nerfed by disallowing boating.

[Khobai]

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Lighter mechs will have better acceleration/decelleration, faster torso turn, faster leg turn, smaller profile, lots of things that don't show up on paper but definitely will impact gameplay and gives lights/mediums a leg up on their heavier opponents.

Light and Medium mechs dont really need extra help, theyre quite good as is. A 35 ton Jenner has 4-5 weapons compared to a 100 ton Atlas which only has 6-7 weapons.The firepower of assault mechs has basically been halved in MWO. In TT an assault mech could often alpha strike and kill a light mech instantly. Thats not going to be the case in MWO.

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As someone else has said, assaults seems to already have been (rightfully) nerfed by disallowing boating.

Exactly.

[Dimestore]

Riffleman, on 18 July 2012 - 12:18 AM, said:

Now I understand roles are important for mechs, but I think they need more than that and maps tailored to them to help balance what I see coming as another version of mechwarrior where its an arms race to the top.

Again I know this goes against the fluff, please dont hate me.

What if we did something crazy, and made it so that light and medium mechs made HALF the heat that heavy and assault mechs produced when firing energy weapons?

Game breaking or helping diversity?

I plan to pilot mostly light mechs (founder jenner & various raven) and I don't see a need. Between the LOS detection & targeting rules and the drift to more rugged terrain there will be plenty of room for the faster mechs to use their speed advantage.

The only balancing challenge I can see is arm aiming speed vs mech speed: even that is not necessarily a problem, but it could be if not balanced correctly. If too slow then light mechs will easily shred any lone assault mech. If too fast then a lone assault mech will be able to bring massive firepower down on light mechs too easily. Both extremes are unlikely but I will be checking them out when I get into beta.

[FactorlanP]

I've got an idea...

Why don't we wait and see if there is even a problem before we start suggesting massive departures from canon.

[Kraven Kor]

o.O

WHY WOULD YOU DO THIS?

[Khobai]

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The only balancing challenge I can see is arm aiming speed vs mech speed: even that is not necessarily a problem, but it could be if not balanced correctly. If too slow then light mechs will easily shred any lone assault mech. If too fast then a lone assault mech will be able to bring massive firepower down on light mechs too easily. Both extremes are unlikely but I will be checking them out when I get into beta.

What massive firepower? Assault mechs have like 1 weapon in each arm. Maybe 2 tops.

Light mechs and Medium mechs are going to dominate Assault mechs in close-range. Assaults will really only be good at long-range.

[Glythe]

Dymitry, on 18 July 2012 - 08:36 AM, said:

As someone else has said, assaults seems to already have been (rightfully) nerfed by disallowing boating.

I don't necessarily think the assaults were rightfully nerfed. There is no reason to have the same number of weapon hard points on an Assault as a medium. The Assault should have a few more just because it IS a heavier mech. You can't use them all anyway. Being big and slow (not to mention 2-3 times as expensive) is its own problem and that is their drawback.... they shouldn't be gimped with less weapons.

Preventing boating is fine..... but it shouldn't come at the cost of removing hard point options. I expect a 100 ton mech to have MORE Hardpoints than a heavy or medium.

[DaveFromAbove]

There are much better ways than this to balance the game play. By changing the way heat functions throughout the classes you are just turning all the mechs into a bland mash-up of the same thing, when it is much better to have each class play a unique and defined role.

Some of you might not like this analogy; but this makes me think of what Blizzard did to WOW. In vanilla each class had a clearly defined role, put in later expansions they changed the paradigm so that almost any class could fill any role. In MW:O this would ruin the whole stated goal of "role based combat".

If Heat is a rule in the game I say let it be standard for all mechs across all classes. If the developers find that a month or two into the game that light mechs are being killed to easily and not filling the desired role within the game they are free to tweak the stats here and there, but don't just cheat and give them their own rules.

Edited by DaveFromAbove, 18 July 2012 - 09:11 AM.

[Jiri Starrider]

l33tworks, on 18 July 2012 - 12:57 AM, said:

You just made a big mistake my friend...

If you ever wanted to go down this road
Its acrually the other way around. Physics, man!.

Given the same heat output, and thats exactly what we have here as you say given the sane weapon ladout, The BIGGER something is the better and faster it radiates heat and cooler it will run.

Not only that but it will take longer to heat up as well

What do you do when you want better cooling for your car ( GTR)
Bigger radiators.
For your PC water cooling? Bigger radiators.

For high voltage electricity transformers running the same watts? Guess which stays cooler. the bigger one

I'm not exactly sure why lights already have less heat problems to begin with?

That's because those bigger things have more heat sinks, as it were, not because they are bigger. The more mass the more thermal retention. In absence of radiator fins they are in fact >less< efficient at dispersing heat as the surface area to mass ratio is lower on the bigger object. Want a simple test, take a saute pan and a big stock pot. Heat them both up and boil water. Then take the temp of the water at intervals after and see which one is really cooling off faster.

Edit - Oh, and NO re: the OP's idea.

Edited by Jiri Starrider, 18 July 2012 - 09:19 AM.

[Samuel Ryan Jennings]

Just to add my 2 CC bills ....

This would totally break the game and change it entirely. Like many have said, lights would become laser boats, and instead of being scouting mechs, would be swift machines of death.

Thank you, no thank you.

If it was truly believed necessary, then perhaps a bonus 1 less heat per weapon or some such.

But like someone else said (sorry not sure who)

Bigger mashines cool down easier and faster due to larger cooling capabilities.

That being said, if they were to implement something like this, they would have to make it the same or better for larger mechs to keep it fair and logical.

So, no. This cannot happen.

[bpphantom]

I will wait to see how things are balanced. Hardpoints may well be that balancing factor, but there's still something to be said for the ability to make a 2/3/0 100 ton mech sporting 3x Gauss Rifles w/4 tons of ammo backed up by 8x Medium Lasers. Regardless, I'll play wait and see.

[Xune]

and what reason would we have to do such a thing ?
The game isent out yet, and still some people try to change and "balance" the game in the favor of what they want to play.

Then again if you want 50% less Heat on light and med mechs, the same weapons should deal 50% more dammage on heavys and assaults no ?

Both idears are more then silly

So

HELL NO !

[Bobfrombobtown]

This is less of a problem than you might think. Light mechs carry fewer weapons than larger mechs. Fewer weapons means less heat. Light 'mechs are not supposed to be running around with 8 ER PPCs and 19 medium lasers. If that's what you are looking for then you should be piloting an assault.

[Milkman Luke]

Khorloch, on 18 July 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

My thoughts exactly. Part of the reason the Mechs are balanced is because they all use the same weapons.

That. Dropping heat only benefits energy weapons. Why would you do something that basically would punish people for taking missile and ballistic, 2/3rds of the weapon classes?

[Gray Carlyle]

Don´t like the idea, it would force light mechs to heavy heat weapons to be most effective.

[Dymitry]

Glythe, on 18 July 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

I don't necessarily think the assaults were rightfully nerfed. There is no reason to have the same number of weapon hard points on an Assault as a medium. The Assault should have a few more just because it IS a heavier mech. You can't use them all anyway. Being big and slow (not to mention 2-3 times as expensive) is its own problem and that is their drawback.... they shouldn't be gimped with less weapons.

Preventing boating is fine..... but it shouldn't come at the cost of removing hard point options. I expect a 100 ton mech to have MORE Hardpoints than a heavy or medium.

I was referring more to same kind or universal hardpoints that to total number (i agree with you on this one, even of heavies) after having spent most of the day playing with a jenner, I have to say you have a point. It has 6 energy hardpoints, just short of my dragon that has 3 ballistic in the same arm, so 1 really unless you use ac2s/mg, 2 energy and 1 missile(but with 2 slots only). On top of that, I don't consider myself to be good in the sightliest, but in 1 on 1 fights, with maybe exclusion of the hot map, a singe jenner can pose a serious threat to everything else and win or cripple them apart maybe from swaybacks and ssrms cats. I understand having a huge advantage in terms of maneuverability over an atlas, but with a bit of luck they are almost powerless. If I find myself facing an atlas alone I should be scared, rather than happy - i think! Sorry for the OT.

Edited by Dymitry, 22 July 2012 - 03:14 PM.