404 replies to this topic

[Mister Blastman]

Well, I must say that the bushwhacker art looks good. It looks... like a bushwhacker. And what I like most about it is how the arms are not spread way far apart as they have been in some other iterations.

[Solis Obscuri]

DrxAbstract, on 09 September 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

Mark my words, it's going to be the Marauder of the Medium class - A veritable tank.

Mmmmf. Not sure I'd be willing to declare any medium a "tank".

I do think the torso design will let this run an XL a bit more safely than most of the 55-tonners we already have, which is a plus. Has room for ballistics (not all the hardpoints in one arm), too, which is nice.

[LordNothing]

Wolf Ender, on 08 September 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

Nah but you need that AC/20 ...SRMs alone aren't magical. And it's easy enough to step down to SRM4's they fire faster they almost work better. It's like my fav mech in the game is the Centy AH... all ballistic and missile...**** energy weapons

im starting to favor srm2s in situations where you have the hardpoints to mount 5 or 6 of them. they are dead accurate, even without artemis, and have great refire rate. a little hot but thats a fine price to pay for abit more close in dps.

[Solis Obscuri]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'm hoping the middle Shadowhawk on the bottom picture is an example of "how tall it should be"?

If that's a 60-ton MBT, yeah.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolf Ender, on 08 September 2016 - 11:33 PM, said:

Look at the P1 ...AC/20 and SIX SRM slots looks like a scary brawler to me. The hand has to be a typo. i want it. but yeah the rest of the variants look pretty meh.

might wanna re-check the sales page, it's been updated, full arm actuators, no AC20, sorry.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Solis Obscuri, on 09 September 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

If that's a 60-ton MBT, yeah.

Only more confirmation that they rescaled in the wrong direction

Should've used one of the tiny lights as the role model for scale.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 September 2016 - 01:41 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Only more confirmation that they rescaled in the wrong direction

Should've used one of the tiny lights as the role model for scale.

8-14 meters is the "canon correct" scale for Humanoid Mechs.

Unfortunately it looks like HBS is kind of ignoring this too, as the 35 ton Striker Light Tanks in the Demos looked like roller skates for the Hunchback.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

Unfortunately it looks like HBS is kind of ignoring this too, as the 35 ton Striker Light Tanks in the Demos looked like roller skates for the Hunchback.

This works somewhat for a game where Mechs are meant to be more powerful (scale helps emphasize that, even if they completely overdid it here), because I think some of the tanks even in MW4 were a bit smaller than they probably should've been, but for a game like that I hope they fix that since Battletech does involve more than just mechs.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 09 September 2016 - 01:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 01:48 PM, said:

This works somewhat for a game where Mechs are meant to be more powerful (scale helps emphasize that, even if they completely overdid it here), because I think some of the tanks even in MW4 were a bit smaller than they probably should've been, but for a game like that I hope they fix that since Battletech does involve more than just mechs.

they were ridiculously undersized in MW4. And I would rather it be "more accurate" than oversize for emphasis, This is Battletech, not 300!

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 01:57 PM, said:

And I would rather it be "more accurate" than oversize for emphasis

I would too just because it messes with the sense of scale, but every developer seems determined to make them monstrosities.

[Bishop Steiner]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

I would too just because it messes with the sense of scale, but every developer seems determined to make them monstrosities.

Yeah it was the first thing I noticed in MWO. And if you look at the ground cars and the old "Oil Derricks" that we used to fight over, even with a 17-18m Atlas, they were still way too small (not to mention the Atlas was 4-5 meters too tall).

Even though the entire concept of Battletech plays loose with reality and Pseudo Science to make stuff "work" they still tried to be more believable than most games. And for me the tiny tanks and stuff just made things look ridiculous, not the mechs more impressive.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

8-14 meters is the "canon correct" scale for Humanoid Mechs.

Unfortunately it looks like HBS is kind of ignoring this too, as the 35 ton Striker Light Tanks in the Demos looked like roller skates for the Hunchback.

If not mistaken, Bishop, I believe they said they had not yet done the rescales in time for the pre-alpha footage. Just too excited to show what they had so far mechanically.

Some of the mechs, I do admit, will never get to proper scale due to the impossibility of putting a human pilot into what PGI has made for cockpits. For example the Atlas head; it looks awesome but if shrunk to actual size, you'll never fit two people inside that head. In fact you can't even fit the pilot MWO has now in there in the sitting posture the pilot has.

Edited by Koniving, 09 September 2016 - 03:12 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 09 September 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

If not mistaken, Bishop, I believe they said they had not yet done the rescales in time for the pre-alpha footage. Just too excited to show what they had so far mechanically.

Some of the mechs, I do admit, will never get to proper scale due to the impossibility of putting a human pilot into what PGI has made for cockpits. For example the Atlas head; it looks awesome but if shrunk to actual size, you'll never fit two people inside that head. In fact you can't even fit the pilot MWO has now in there in the sitting posture the pilot has.

really depends how much one tries to line up with the inside shot. That big old dome is more than large enough. Most Lights,realistically would be having the "head" extend into the CT.

But now would seem the time to bring it up, not after it's set in stone, yes?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 September 2016 - 03:47 PM.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

really depends how much one tries to line up with the inside shot. That big old dome is more than large enough. Most Lights,realistically would be having the "head" extend into the CT.

But now would seem the time to bring it up, not after it's set in stone, yes?

Indeed.

And yes the Dome is large enough for a single pilot (particularly since I'm quite certain most single seat Atlases have the pilot in the nose), but try fitting two pilots and advanced command hardware in there as well as a full secondary cockpit.


There's a reason the head is HUGE, so that the D-DC is possible.
Also: Note the Deathgiver here is 100mm; notice the barrel's girth?

100mm gun.






And to think this thing needed about 16 bullets to land on target for its 20 damage. But it's not nearly as big as MWO would like us to believe... given that MWO's AC/20 barrel might be as big as half of this little Atlas's hand.

Edited by Koniving, 09 September 2016 - 04:10 PM.

[dervishx5]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Again, your "real team" obviously doesn't benefit from a "real" hunchback pilot.

[Bishop Steiner]

Koniving, on 09 September 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

Indeed.

And yes the Dome is large enough for a single pilot (particularly since I'm quite certain most single seat Atlases have the pilot in the nose), but try fitting two pilots and advanced command hardware in there as well as a full secondary cockpit.


There's a reason the head is HUGE, so that the D-DC is possible.
Also: Note the Deathgiver here is 100mm; notice the barrel's girth?

100mm gun.






And to think this thing needed about 16 bullets to land on target for its 20 damage. But it's not nearly as big as MWO would like us to believe... given that MWO's AC/20 barrel might be as big as half of this little Atlas's hand.

It's kinda funny that them Mlasers are bigger than the AC20....

[Solis Obscuri]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

It's kinda funny that them Mlasers are bigger than the AC20....

It's kinda funny that the Atlas has such big hands and such a tiny little... cannon.

[El Bandito]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

I would too just because it messes with the sense of scale, but every developer seems determined to make them monstrosities.

Not PGI. I never had the sense of piloting a towering giant machine in this game, even when riding my Fatlas.

[Solis Obscuri]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 09 September 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Only more confirmation that they rescaled in the wrong direction

Should've used one of the tiny lights as the role model for scale.

Do we have any 60-ton tanks in MWO to scale off of? I've been assuming everyone in River City drives a go-cart...

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

8-14 meters is the "canon correct" scale for Humanoid Mechs.

Unfortunately it looks like HBS is kind of ignoring this too, as the 35 ton Striker Light Tanks in the Demos looked like roller skates for the Hunchback.

In any game where RNG dice determine hits, the visual size doesn't matter much.

And in the context of MWO, what really matters is the internal consistency, the relationship between the sizes of 'mechs in teh game.

Trying to tie back to FASA fluff is dicey at best - a lot of the fluff doesn't match the mechanics, and even their art isn't consistent. You can find one line drawing that talks about how the biggest 'mechs are only as tall as a 4-story building, and the cover of the same book will show a heavy 'mech the size of the statue of liberty.

This Bushwacker isn't shorter than 24m, unless it's invading Lilliputia.



Which makes it even taller than this Mad Cat, which appears to be around 20m...



Making it a lot larger that this Locust, scaled at around 8.5m in height...



Or maybe not...



Wait, Locust, stop changing sizes!



Well, let's try scaling against tanks again...


Did the Wolverine become a light 'mech? It sure seems smaller than that Enforcer did...



Well, maybe even if the 'mechs look big, they at least scale against each other...



Geez, the Firestarter looks pretty small, it could almost pilot that huge Charger...



And this 8.7m tall 25-ton Commando sure is a lot smaller...



than 11.4m tall 20 ton Fire Moth...



...which is somehow bigger than a Nova or Storm Crow, and about the same size as an 85 ton Warhawk...

And if this Centurion's head is only about a meter in height, and it can pivot, how is there room for a pilot inside?



If the head on a Stinger is even smaller, could even a child fit in there?



But I think you could fit a whole house in the cockpit of this Battlemaster!



Seems almost like any size you picked, you could find something in a rulebook that would match up with it!

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 09 September 2016 - 11:39 PM.

[Koniving]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

It's kinda funny that them Mlasers are bigger than the AC20....

I wonder if it is because the entire laser is outside of the arm while most of the cannon works are inside the torso (the loader, etc. It is supposed to fire pretty damn fast).

Or would that be the Large Lasers of the RS?