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And... The Bushwacker Is Upon Us


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#281 dervishx5

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 08:40 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 08 September 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

the best game settings are strong in both. It's no coincidence that the 3025-FedCom civil war era is so supported and "revered", or the Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance settings for D&D. Fiction brings a setting to life, even if the players never directly interact with the focal points of the writing.


The lack of Jihad fiction is more due to budget issues than anything else.

View PostKhobai, on 08 September 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

battletech beyond 3058 is stupid and pointless

if PGI is smart theyll never go past 3058 in the timeline

that allows for a lot of new toys while keeping the IS vs Clan war going perpetually


Ignorance is bliss.

#282 SmithMPBT

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 08:54 AM

View PostRed Shrike, on 06 September 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

For the same reason you don't see a lot of light tanks in World of Tanks.

I think it's more due to the perceived value you receive. When you buy an assault or Heavy Mech Pack you get big mechs worth alot of C-bills. Lights mechs have a C-bill value of about 1/4th plus they don't have the damage potential of the heavier mechs. in World of Tanks, light tanks cost far far less when purchased thru the gift shop or with gold, than heavy tanks. The value just isn't there for light mechs.

#283 TercieI

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 08:56 AM

View PostSmithMPBT, on 08 September 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

I think it's more due to the perceived value you receive. When you buy an assault or Heavy Mech Pack you get big mechs worth alot of C-bills. Lights mechs have a C-bill value of about 1/4th plus they don't have the damage potential of the heavier mechs. in World of Tanks, light tanks cost far far less when purchased thru the gift shop or with gold, than heavy tanks. The value just isn't there for light mechs.


They need to find a way, this is getting ridiculous (see my sig)

#284 lagartx3

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 09:16 AM

View PostTercieI, on 08 September 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:


They need to find a way, this is getting ridiculous (see my sig)


They should make the lighter mechs in the new collections packs* $15 for the standard then $30 for the collection, it could be a nice way to increase sales in the ligth category

Edited by lagartx3, 08 September 2016 - 09:22 AM.


#285 Michael Kail

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 10:08 AM

View Postlagartx3, on 08 September 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:


They should make the lighter mechs in the new collections packs* $15 for the standard then $30 for the collection, it could be a nice way to increase sales in the ligth category


Or, they could just run more light 'Mech sales, either for particular chassis or for the whole class. Lights do have their role. We're good at picking off the stray heavies and assaults that wander too far from the pack. We're also usually the first (not always) in the domination zone.

Stick and move! Stick and move!

#286 Tordin

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 10:13 AM

View PostFupDup, on 06 September 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

Hopefully it doesn't turn out mediocre, would be shame for such a famous gundam.

On the bright side, one of the variants with MWO-tech has 8 hardpoints, so that seems like a probable HP count across the board.


Um...uh...mmmm...

If the side torso MGs are mounted decently high, I guess you could make a 2 UAC/5 ridge poker with 2 ML for backup. Don't say Shadow Hawk, because the Shad has to use a STD engine for that (which isn't that great for a medium mech due to limited tonnage). The Shad is also cursed to never have good quirks because it used to be sorta-meta a few years ago.

That's really about it.


The Shad will be back, I count on it. STILL imo, it ranks high and are still a pretty good mech in almost any case. And pilots who get awesome in the Shad without depending on crutch quirks.... Imagine them with quirked Shads, the Shadmageddon will be for real!

#287 Shadowomega1

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 10:26 AM

View Postdervishx5, on 08 September 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:


The lack of Jihad fiction is more due to budget issues than anything else.



Ignorance is bliss.


Actually I think it had more to do with content then budget, considering what happened in the real world close to the release of that story arch.

#288 lagartx3

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 10:44 AM

View PostMichael Kail, on 08 September 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:


Or, they could just run more light 'Mech sales, either for particular chassis or for the whole class. Lights do have their role. We're good at picking off the stray heavies and assaults that wander too far from the pack. We're also usually the first (not always) in the domination zone.

Stick and move! Stick and move!


Well, i tougth we wanted MORE NEW ligth mechs, not sales for the existing ones, the idea is to bring more diversity into the class, not to give people an incentive to buy cheaper the same things that have been in the game for years for everyone to buy and master free for C-bills

#289 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 11:03 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 08 September 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:


Take a gander at the various Chargers.

There are some interesting loadouts there, not to mention in the Hatamoto-Chi/Hi/Kaze/Ku/Mizo that were built off the frame.

#290 Nastyogre

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 11:18 AM

Bushwhacker has the best name for a mech

#291 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:09 PM

View PostNastyogre, on 08 September 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Bushwhacker has the best name for a mech


Huh huh... He said bush.

#292 Coralld

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:20 PM

View PostNastyogre, on 08 September 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Bushwhacker has the best name for a mech

View PostBishop Steiner, on 08 September 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:


Huh huh... He said bush.


Ha! He said 'whacker'.

#293 Khobai

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:28 PM

Quote

The lack of Jihad fiction is more due to budget issues than anything else.


because jihad sucks and no one cares about it so battletechs popularity decreased which means budget issues

#294 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:29 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 08 September 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:


well, I've was beating that drum even back during the preempted MW5 era....

Aside from 3rd Succession War, my dream eras for Game and Storytelling are the actual Jihad and the End of the Amaris Civil War/Fall of the Star League. Gimme a MW2 Mercs multi year/decade narrative game set in either setting? I'll throw my wallet at ya right now.


Yeah, I agree on a lot of those. 3rd Succession War is a great era for ongoing conflict and crapsack, Mad Max retro-futurism. The major Star League conflicts don't get much attention, which is unfortunate - imagine an MW game where you could play through a campaign as a member of Kerensky's SLDF fighting back through to Terra! It's be pretty damn epic.

I don't love the Jihad setting, mostly because I feel like the wobbies get more asspull mechanics than even the Clans (Clans: Double the effectiveness of all our technology even while resource limited and fighting a string of genocidal conflicts? Sure why not! WoB: ComStar is terribly resource strapped following Tukkayyid and rebuilding... Oh look we suddenly also have all these Star League warship fleets and tons of crackhead mech designs and WMDs and cybernetic superhumans and and asteroid mass drivers and insane automated defenses that... um.. fell off the back of a truck...). I also feel like, while some of the destruction of old merc units and plot-armored hero characters were overdue (hell, a lot of them should have been dying of old age by the FedCom war!), mostly they didn't get replaed by anything interesting... seriously, we get Deusexmechina Superspacejesus the Chosen One, who's about as (un)appealing as Annakin was in the Phantom Menace, and for all the same reasons. Some of the tech, too... Mech Tasers? Really?

The way the alliances all get reformed around that era is definitely great, though, and it leads to much more interesting and varied faction balance. Particularly, it gives a chance for the Clans to get interesting again, as individual leaders become more important and the individual philosophies guiding the various factions get interesting. Not every I.S. power has to be hardlocked into a nihilistic struggle with its two closest neighbors all the time because they can't go anywhere else or make gains any other way. It'd be really fertile lore setting for some good gameplay, except for unappealing fiction and some tech items that should never have seen daylight outside an Experimental Tech supplement.

I get where Dark Ages try to do kind of a reboot from super-high tech after this and jump back to the earlier crapsack, low-tech/retrotech era, except it feels really forced and... agromechs? Why bother with some of this crap? The Succession Wars have enough poorly balanced technology built apparently for no other purpose than to suck without doubling-down on making things suck.

As for I.S. vs. Clan invasion... it's too warmed over at this point. It was never particularly interesting unless you got hardcore about resource limitations, anyway, and while the Clan Tech does a somewhat better job of being internally balanced (e.g. Clantech vs. Clantech) than I.S. did, placing intentionally suboptimized designs with intentionally suboptimized tech against moderately optimized designs with super-optimized tech isn't all that interesting, mechanically. Better focus on the clans as emphasizing more spec-ops/raiding/individual combat vs. the line-unit/conventional warfare of the succession war armies would be fun, but the mechanics hamper it by building Clan technology as just better armed and more survivable and with easier dice rolls and longer engagement ranges, essentially just stronger line units reminiscent of a Reunification War setting (where at least that made sense from a lore perspective). The haphazard limitations on upgrading I.S. units is a pain, too (seriously, DHS upgrades are just a maintenance operation but putting on CASE requires a complete factory overhaul?) But all the mechanics encourage the Clans to function as a reunification War army, not their appropriate lore basis, and the forced unity and forced crusader mentality really hamper interesting development of the Clans as individual factions. Really, there's a lot about the timeline that I'd really love to reboot, particularly from a game balance standpoint. I guess MWO has had some opportunity to do just that though... just a shame they're still trying to work around the pinpoint alphastrike convergence problem instead of addressing it directly.

Heh, which brings me back to the Bushwacker. I remember back when I got MW3, and the rules were pretty cool - SRMs with limited guidance, powerful burst-firing autocannons, multi-beam pulse lasers... sadly no DFA :( but that knockdown mechanic where you could try to hit things with an alpha strike and knock them over. I remember trying to get that to work so much when I first got the game, with all the weapons on my (stock) Bushwacker behaving differently and scattering damage. It was a gamble for a potentially big reward, which I like as a mechanic. Sadly there was a lot in that game that could be exploited miserably (leg instagibs, instant hitscan laser boating, boating anything to make that alpha mechanic easy), but it introduced some fun new stuff. (Some of which, like knockdowns, was actually old TT mechanisms). Too bad more hasn't been carried along over time.

#295 dervishx5

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:32 PM

View PostSolis Obscuri, on 08 September 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

WoB: ComStar is terribly resource strapped following Tukkayyid and rebuilding... Oh look we suddenly also have all these Star League warship fleets and tons of crackhead mech designs and WMDs and cybernetic superhumans and and asteroid mass drivers and insane automated defenses that... um.. fell off the back of a truck...


That stuff is all explained pretty well in the later Jihad books. Not to mention the early Jihad was more IS vs IS than WoB vs Everyone.

#296 Quicksilver Aberration

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:35 PM

View PostKhobai, on 08 September 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

because jihad sucks and no one cares about it so battletechs popularity decreased which means budget issues

Yeah, it had nothing to do with other factors whatsoever Posted Image

#297 dervishx5

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:36 PM

View PostKhobai, on 08 September 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:


because jihad sucks and no one cares about it so battletechs popularity decreased which means budget issues


Nobody cares about an old person like you.

There, that's probably a wrong statement, but I'm taking your lead.

#298 Khobai

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:44 PM

Quote

Yeah, it had nothing to do with other factors whatsoever


I see tons of other game franchises that were around in the 80s still going strong...

the fact is battletech has been on the decline for decades and the weakass jihad and dark ages storylines are a large part of the reason why

the best selling mechwarrior games and novels have all been clan centric. you think thats a coincidence?

pgi even brought clans into mwo to make money. theyre focusing on the clan invasion time period for a reason. not jihad or dark ages. because everything after 3058 is complete crap. thats what killed battletech.

there may have been other factors. but thats the big one.

Edited by Khobai, 08 September 2016 - 12:46 PM.


#299 dervishx5

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:47 PM

View PostKhobai, on 08 September 2016 - 12:44 PM, said:


I see tons of other game franchises that were around in the 80s still going strong...

the fact is battletech has been on the decline for decades and the weakass jihad and dark ages storylines are a large part of the reason why

the best selling mechwarrior games have all been clan centric. you think thats a coincidence?


Which of course has nothing to do with a growing market of competition nor FASA no longer wishing to be around.

Battletech was already on a steep decline before the DA was even dreamed up. If anything, DA brought a short spike of new life into the series. I don't like it, but I don't live in denial.

#300 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 08 September 2016 - 12:51 PM

View Postdervishx5, on 08 September 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:


That stuff is all explained pretty well in the later Jihad books. Not to mention the early Jihad was more IS vs IS than WoB vs Everyone.

I haven't read a lot of those, but wasn't it mostly that Star Trek Into Darkness/Star Wars Attack of the Clones cop-out that all along there were super secret programs within already super-secretive Comstar hoarding resources to build super secret super armies at super secret bases to sweep in as a deus ex mechina Big Bad... In turn forcing the Successor States, non-homeworld Clans, remnant forces of Comstar, etc. to actually have to pull together for once and therefore pave the way for unification under the Republic of the Sphere and Emperor of Mankind Devlin Stone? Seemed kinda forced.





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