42 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

I don't understand why somebody would put so much effort into writing up something like this when it's a convoluted mess and even worse than what we have now.

I piss on your MMORPG inspired talent tree crap, we don't need any of this **** and it adds nothing of value.

[EvAbsence]

Thank you for the input everyone, even you Pjwned.
Some of the concerns I've seen are addressed in the original post, and I will admit that the formatting in these forums has annoyed me to no end, ultimately resulting the difficult to read post it is.

An example is Khobai's comment on Infotech importance and use as a damage modifier. I like the idea, and have implemented it in the infotech/offense path in the form of advanced targeting lock cutting through ecm even at long range, allowing for weapon convergence for everyone, or pinpoint just allowing it for yourself on targets without lock.

Edited by EvAbsence, 08 September 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[N0MAD]

What is Mechcon?, where will it be and what companies are going to be there?
TY.

[BLOOD WOLF]

N0MAD, on 08 September 2016 - 06:36 PM, said:

What is Mechcon?, where will it be and what companies are going to be there?
TY.

https://mwomercs.com/mechcon#schedule

[N0MAD]

ty

[Lostdragon]

Pjwned, on 08 September 2016 - 02:47 PM, said:

I don't understand why somebody would put so much effort into writing up something like this when it's a convoluted mess and even worse than what we have now.

I piss on your MMORPG inspired talent tree crap, we don't need any of this **** and it adds nothing of value.

Having a skill tree that involves making choices adds depth to the game, provided there are actually legitimate choices. Fallout does a great job of this, the skills you pick really influence how you play the game. The original Guild Wars had a really cool skill system where you had access to a lot of skills but you could only use 8 at a time. There were many creative builds people came up with and you weren't shoehorned into 2-3 builds that everyone played because they were the best.

I've been saying for a long time I would like to see the skill trees go away and get replaced by pilots. That could add an interesting layer to the meta game and open up some new revenue streams for PGI. There are a lot of ways this type of scheme could be implemented that would be fun and interesting.

[Johnny Z]

Lostdragon, on 08 September 2016 - 07:48 PM, said:

Having a skill tree that involves making choices adds depth to the game, provided there are actually legitimate choices. Fallout does a great job of this, the skills you pick really influence how you play the game. The original Guild Wars had a really cool skill system where you had access to a lot of skills but you could only use 8 at a time. There were many creative builds people came up with and you weren't shoehorned into 2-3 builds that everyone played because they were the best.

I've been saying for a long time I would like to see the skill trees go away and get replaced by pilots. That could add an interesting layer to the meta game and open up some new revenue streams for PGI. There are a lot of ways this type of scheme could be implemented that would be fun and interesting.

This and the current system is well balanced if not very finished because its a place holder.

[Pjwned]

Lostdragon, on 08 September 2016 - 07:48 PM, said:

Having a skill tree that involves making choices adds depth to the game, provided there are actually legitimate choices. Fallout does a great job of this, the skills you pick really influence how you play the game. The original Guild Wars had a really cool skill system where you had access to a lot of skills but you could only use 8 at a time. There were many creative builds people came up with and you weren't shoehorned into 2-3 builds that everyone played because they were the best.

I've been saying for a long time I would like to see the skill trees go away and get replaced by pilots. That could add an interesting layer to the meta game and open up some new revenue streams for PGI. There are a lot of ways this type of scheme could be implemented that would be fun and interesting.

The difference is that those games were actually balanced around those skill systems and also featured a wealth of varied content to make the leveling/grinding much less tedious & boring.

What does adding a skill tree accomplish in this game? Mindless grinding with a laughable lack of content to go through, as well as power creep out the *** which flushes any sense of balance down the sewer and ruins everything.

Is it acceptable to just shove a grindy piece of **** "skill tree" into everything because other games do it? The answer is no.

Edited by Pjwned, 08 September 2016 - 09:14 PM.

[Kyrie]

I get hung up on the fact that a new player would start with 0 xp thus 0 skill points thus.... severe disadvantage against those who have everything unlocked. This would create a further matchmaking problem as the new player progresses beyond day 0. assuming you do in fact manage to limit tier5 matching to begin with.

This is a pvp game unfortunately... I don't see what this will add to the game other than handicapping new players.

Edited by Kyrie, 08 September 2016 - 08:53 PM.

[PAQUERA]

wow, what wonderfull could be...i like it!!!!

[Navid A1]

I just wanna see PER POD skill tree for omni mechs... and being able to swap CT pod as well

[Davegt27]

the current system seems fine to me

need more module slots on the Mechs but other then that I don't see what the big problem is

[Drifting]

I've skimmed through the above, if a player bought 2 of the same mechs, could they specialise them differently?

[Lostdragon]

Pjwned, on 08 September 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:

The difference is that those games were actually balanced around those skill systems and also featured a wealth of varied content to make the leveling/grinding much less tedious & boring.

What does adding a skill tree accomplish in this game? Mindless grinding with a laughable lack of content to go through, as well as power creep out the *** which flushes any sense of balance down the sewer and ruins everything.

Is it acceptable to just shove a grindy piece of **** "skill tree" into everything because other games do it? The answer is no.

What it adds to the game is one of the four pillars that is currently almost completely absent: Role Warfare. You could specialize a mech/pilot as being tanky to lead pushes or defend objectives, you could specialize another to be a fast striker, or another as a scout/info warfare platform.

Having progression in a PVP game is not a bad thing. It creates a goal to work toward and adds a new layer for players to customize and play around with. I enjoy the mechlab about as much as I enjoy combat, as do many other players. A system where skills have to be chosen could make that aspect of the game even more engaging and open up more playstyles and builds.

Of course it would also be nice to have some new modes to go along with this to really make it shine, like asymettrical base attack/defense and/or huge maps with multiple objectives that require coordinated attacks/defense.

You could even make the skill system a part of FW only through pilots. This would nean new players building up their drop decks through QP would not be impacted at all while veteran players would have more of an "end game" to work through. Heck, you could even let pilots be killed through headshots and overheating, forcing the recruitment of a new pilot that has to be skilled up. There are a lot of possibilities that could make the game more interesting.

[Pjwned]

Lostdragon, on 09 September 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

What it adds to the game is one of the four pillars that is currently almost completely absent: Role Warfare. You could specialize a mech/pilot as being tanky to lead pushes or defend objectives, you could specialize another to be a fast striker, or another as a scout/info warfare platform.

We don't need a skill tree for that, just build your mech properly in the mech lab to achieve that.

Quote

Having progression in a PVP game is not a bad thing. It creates a goal to work toward and adds a new layer for players to customize and play around with. I enjoy the mechlab about as much as I enjoy combat, as do many other players. A system where skills have to be chosen could make that aspect of the game even more engaging and open up more playstyles and builds.

1) Having "progression" (i.e a shitfest grind) is not good in a PvP game, go play World of Tanks or something if you want that.

2) It won't add more variety when inevitably a cookie cutter meta build is found and everybody uses it and nothing else.

Quote

You could even make the skill system a part of FW only through pilots. This would nean new players building up their drop decks through QP would not be impacted at all while veteran players would have more of an "end game" to work through. Heck, you could even let pilots be killed through headshots and overheating, forcing the recruitment of a new pilot that has to be skilled up. There are a lot of possibilities that could make the game more interesting.

1) If you have to disable it in quick play then it suggests the whole idea is crap.

2) I can tell you right now that tying it to the pilot would be even worse and forcing players to train a new pilot because the pilot died would cause a shitstorm of biblical proportions.

[Lostdragon]

Pjwned, on 09 September 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

We don't need a skill tree for that, just build your mech properly in the mech lab to achieve that.



1) Having "progression" (i.e a shitfest grind) is not good in a PvP game, go play World of Tanks or something if you want that.

2) It won't add more variety when inevitably a cookie cutter meta build is found and everybody uses it and nothing else.



1) If you have to disable it in quick play then it suggests the whole idea is crap.

2) I can tell you right now that tying it to the pilot would be even worse and forcing players to train a new pilot because the pilot died would cause a shitstorm of biblical proportions.

Only poorly designed skill systems wind up with cookie cutter builds, but this is PGI, so it could definitely happen. Having it as part of FW only and pilots that could die are just ideas, but the skill tree revamp is coming and I feel like it is almost certainly going to involve making choices to create a build so you had probably better get used to that idea, and if you don't like it you can go play COD or something... Oh wait, almost all games now have some kind of skill or progression system because it is fun, so I guess you can go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure if you are so against those.

[Pjwned]

Lostdragon, on 09 September 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

Only poorly designed skill systems wind up with cookie cutter builds, but this is PGI, so it could definitely happen.

You mean like shoving in some skill tree bull**** in a game where it doesn't belong?

Quote

Having it as part of FW only and pilots that could die are just ideas, but the skill tree revamp is coming and I feel like it is almost certainly going to involve making choices to create a build so you had probably better get used to that idea,

As long as people are aware that skill trees are **** then my job is done.

Quote

and if you don't like it you can go play COD or something... Oh wait, almost all games now have some kind of skill or progression system because it is fun, so I guess you can go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure if you are so against those.

Hmmm no, how about you stop taking a **** on my hobby with your garbage taste and go play some Nexon games instead if you like grinding that much.

Edited by Pjwned, 09 September 2016 - 07:56 PM.

[xSleeZyx]

We need a skill tree like this!

And this isn't even half the skill tree:


Edit:


But yea i agree, we need more real customisation.
Give a light a specific task to focus into scouting or sniping, W/e.

Atm there's no real focuses at all realy.
Just a grind that you need to fullfill before you can use you mech to it's potential.
It adds nothing of fun gameplay value realy.

Edited by xSleeZyx, 09 September 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[Lostdragon]

Pjwned, on 09 September 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

You mean like shoving in some skill tree bull**** in a game where it doesn't belong?

As long as people are aware that skill trees are **** then my job is done.

Hmmm no, how about you stop taking a **** on my hobby with your garbage taste and go play some Nexon games instead if you like grinding that much.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad. People have been asking for a meaningful skill tree for a long time and it was one of the original design goals for the game, so nobody is "***ing on your hobby", you are just probably playing the wrong game like I said. Maybe a Farming Simulator '16 or Euro Trucker would be more up your alley if you don't want to deal with skill trees and they destroy your enjoyment of a game.

[Requiemking]

I like your suggestion. It allows mechs to do the roles intended for them, plus more. For example, the Mist Lynx is, under the current system, a sub-par Light because all of it's strongpoints are next to worthless in MWO. Under this system, however, it could load points into Infotech and Mobility, allowing it to be the scout it's supposed to be. But why stop there? The Raven-3L, a mech noted in lore for it's advanced electronics package, is reduced to an ERLL sniper in the current system. Your system allows it to be what it is meant to be.