37 replies to this topic

[Mokey]

Can Someone please explain how the Match Making actually works in the game?

I 1st thought it was via Tonnage. But I find myself solo or group being on teams that are out tonned by A LOT. When I say a lot I really mean it. Like so:

My team:
1 Assault
4 Heavies
4 Meds
3 Lights

Enemy Team:
6 Assaults
2 Heavies
3 Meds
1 Light

OFC the above is just an example of what I am talking about.

So then I turned and said, OH it's gotta be by PSR. But then I group up with some friends who are the same tier as me and after asking around, found myself getting in Pub drops with tier 5's.

If MM isn't balancing tonnage, then why is is SO strict on group play tonnage? I understand the team work aspect. But Sometimes, You just can't compete with 400+ tons against you.

So, can some1 explain or link me how it works? Preferably with sources?

Edited by Mokey, 08 September 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[Jehofi]

Solo Q is also balanced by tonnage but not primarily.

Group Q is not balanced by tonnage you you should not gimp your team by playing 3 lights. Sadly there is nothing the MM can do about such groups.

[Myantra]

Group queue does not take take mech type into account. The group gets their tonnage to work with. Larger groups have to stretch tonnage further. If your group of 3 brought lights and mediums, you can easily end up facing a team that brought mostly assaults and heavies. Tonnage left unused in the group queue is basically asking to face tonnage imbalance. I have been on teams with 9 assaults, where the enemy only had 2.

The solo queue does take weight class into account, as I have never dropped into a solo match with a serious tonnage imbalance. I have been on teams with 6 assaults in the solo queue, but the enemy was similarly equipped. If there ever was an imbalance, it was not by much.

[Idealsuspect]

I am pretty sure that this MM( or non-MM ) doesnt balance groups size between 2 teams i explain.

2 groups of 6 vs 6 groups of 2 in each team = unbalanced match du of tonnage
1 group of 6 + 3 groups of 2 vs 1 group of 6 + 3 groups of 2 = balanced tonnage

Group queue is more unbalanced than FW queue or QP queue. But its a nice place for tier 4 and theirs friends are farmed by tier1 vets group...
( Buy more mechs packages ).

[xTrident]

OP, you'll get explanations on how the match maker works but it will never make any sense because in the end, it doesn't work.

What I've heard, and this doesn't go for group queue and quite frankly I don't think group queue even uses a match maker. But anyway the last thing I was told was that it was based on PSR primarily and you're grouped with players within two tiers of your PSR - both higher and lower. For example, a tier three player is grouped with players two tiers above and below so a tier 3 player could be teamed with/against everyone playing. A tier 5 player can't play with anyone lower because tier 5 is the lowest but two tiers higher is tier 3. So a tier 5 player plays with people as high as tier 3, but that's it. I think you'll get what I'm saying.

Whether that is actually how it works or not, who knows? It's what I was last told. If the match maker does indeed work this way it's not a terrible concept. The problem lies in everyone's PSR because PSR XP simply accumulates over time. Damage dealt, wins/losses/KDR/KMDD/match score and so on aren't taken into consideration with the PSR... Well except for how quickly your PSR bar increases anyway.

My own personal experience - when I was in tier 3 I was having great balanced matches. I was doing well consistently and I had about 30 more match wins than losses. I jump into tier 2 and first I'm seemingly rendered useless. I now run anywhere between 30 to 50 more losses than wins. Just recently pugging I've have some good luck with wins so it's increased. But I felt like I could barely compete and the stomps... I see more now than I ever had in the lower tiers. Imo the match maker sucks. I'd rather there be no PSR and let the teams and skill level all be completely random. Because pugging it really can't be any worse than it is right now for me.

As for group queue, it's even worse.

Edited by xTrident, 08 September 2016 - 07:11 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Mokey, on 08 September 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

Can Someone please explain how the Match Making actually works in the game?

I 1st thought it was via Tonnage. But I find myself solo or group being on teams that are out tonned by A LOT. When I say a lot I really mean it. Like so:

My team:
1 Assault
4 Heavies
4 Meds
3 Lights

Enemy Team:
6 Assaults
2 Heavies
3 Meds
1 Light

OFC the above is just an example of what I am talking about.

So then I turned and said, OH it's gotta be by PSR. But then I group up with some friends who are the same tier as me and after asking around, found myself getting in Pub drops with tier 5's.

If MM isn't balancing tonnage, then why is is SO strict on group play tonnage? I understand the team work aspect. But Sometimes, You just can't compete with 400+ tons against you.

So, can some1 explain or link me how it works? Preferably with sources?

Tier's go +/- 2... so at Tier 3, you can play with up to tier 1's, or back to tier5's... it's why tier 3 is literally hell.

[Dread Render]

Please attache a screen shot.

I have never seen what you say you saw...
As far as I have seen the teams in Quick Play are even by tonnage.

edit...
Even Weight is the only thing the MM seems to get correct to me.
Otherwise the MM is totally broken.

Edited by Dread Render, 08 September 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[xTrident]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 08 September 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Tier's go +/- 2... so at Tier 3, you can play with up to tier 1's, or back to tier5's... it's why tier 3 is literally hell.

I loved tier 3.

[Idealsuspect]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 08 September 2016 - 07:15 AM, said:

Tier's go +/- 2... so at Tier 3, you can play with up to tier 1's, or back to tier5's... it's why tier 3 is literally hell.

Why it's litterally hell...
Primary : As tier 3 you have less waiting time than any other tier coze MM can match you with entiere playerbase...
I know PSR system is a biaised system from beginning also MM too but more playerbase is big more MM work better.

Secondary: If you have tier 5 to carry in YOUR team it mean ennemy team will not have tier 2 and tier 1 pilot also no problem for you, well there is a problem if as tier 3 you can't face tier 3-4-5 people.
In this case ( and i don't say it's your fault but PSR system fault ) tier 3 isn't good for you and tier 4 may be more appropriate? Maybe it's becose of that you feel that tier3 is litterally hell...

Edited by Idealsuspect, 08 September 2016 - 07:36 AM.

[Mokey]

This is why I asked for sources. Getting a lot of mixed messages on how MM actually works... lol

[Idealsuspect]

Mokey, on 08 September 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

This is why I asked for sources. Getting a lot of mixed messages on how MM actually works... lol

There is no MM in group queue ... Only tonnage restriction.

[Mawai]

Match making works differently in the solo and group queues. The only way you could see an example like you describe is in the group queue.

-----

Group queue matchmaking.
- every group size has a maximum tonnage (I have no idea what the number are at the moment but you can look it up).
- as the group size increases the total tonnage allowed decreases.
- it is up to the players in each group to choose mechs that they want to play and maximize their tonnage/effectiveness
- group queue matchmaking does NOT have weight class matchmaking at all anymore.
- a 6 man group is welcome to take 6 lights ... but they may be matched against 3 2-man groups with 6 assaults.
- group PSR is the AVERAGE of all players in each group. A group with a tier 1 and a tier 5 is totally fine since the matchmaker does not constrain who you play and group with ... the PSR used for that group is the average.

Group matchmaking takes the group longest in the queue and tries to form a match with other groups of similar size that have similar average PSR. It does not consider tonnage or mechs in any of the groups since that selection was up to the players subject to maximum group tonnage constraints. If there aren't similarly sized groups, the matchmaker just fits groups of different sizes together with roughly equal PSR. It is still possible to get a 12 man against 6 2-man groups ... but this could give a match with 12 medium mechs vs 12 assaults depending on what each group selected.

----

Solo queue matchmaking is completely different.

The player longest in the queue becomes the seed. The PSR value for this player becomes the base PSR for the match.
- the matchmaker then aims to form a match with a 3/3/3/3 weight class distribution. If there is a significant wait time for some queues then it will activate a release valve changing the weight class distribution for some matches to reduce the longer queues. For example, if there are more heavies in the queue and fewer lights, it will throw in some 2/3/4/3 matches to deplete the heavy queue. During events this can get as extreme as 6 in one weight class. HOWEVER, opposing teams should ALWAYS have the SAME weight class distribution in the solo queue. so a 2/3/4/3 team will face another 2/3/4/3 team.
- However, the matchmaker IGNORES actual tonnage ... it only considers weight class ... so a Commando is the same as an Arctic Cheetah and a Victor is the same as a Kodiak for matchmaking.
- now ... after getting the seed PSR ... the matchmaker fills out both sides with as small a spread in PSR as possible while matching the weight classes on the two teams. If the match isn't completed after 1 minute the PSR range allowed increases ... it does this again after 2 minutes. There is a maximum PSR span from the initial seed allowed.

------------

So the match described by the OP is certainly possible in group queue but should never happen in the solo queue.


If you want references ... the best thread is:

http://mwomercs.com/...courtesy-phone/

Some of the information is dated and refers mostly to the Elo based matchmaker (which as far as we know is the same except for the substitution of PSR for Elo). For group queue matchmaker references you would need to dig through patch notes or townhalls with Russ.

Edited by Mawai, 08 September 2016 - 07:55 AM.

[Myantra]

Mokey, on 08 September 2016 - 07:40 AM, said:

This is why I asked for sources. Getting a lot of mixed messages on how MM actually works... lol

Everyone is basically saying the same thing. Solo QP MM works primarily by PSR, and then weight balancing. You will never see an example like you mentioned in solo QP. No team will have 6 assaults and be placed against another with only 1 assault.

In group queue, I have seen plenty of games like you mention, and have been on both sides of them. That happens when your group, or another group on your team, derped the team by not maximizing the tonnage allowed. If you have a 3-man group and you brought 2 lights and a medium, then you have to hope everyone else made use of the tonnage to make up for what you left behind. A 3-man group can bring 2 Kodiaks and anything 70 tons. It can also happen if you are in a 2-man group and end up on a team with an 8-man that had to stretch their tonnage further.

[Myantra]

Idealsuspect, on 08 September 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

There is no MM in group queue ... Only tonnage restriction.

PSR MM exists in the group queue, you probably just do not notice it as a Tier 1 player. A group of 3 Tier 4-5 players is not going to be facing Tier 1-2 groups unless that is literally all there is in the queue. That changes when there is a Tier disparity in the group. Higher Tiers will bring the group up to their level. A group of Tier 4-5 players will start facing higher Tiers if they have a Tier 1 or 2 player in their group. Of course, PSR probably becomes less important to the MM as group size increases.

Here in Tier 4, I notice it. The opposition gets much better when I end up in a group that has Tier 1 or 2 players in it, or the group is large.

[Davers]

xTrident, on 08 September 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

I'd rather there be no PSR and let the teams and skill level all be completely random. Because pugging it really can't be any worse than it is right now for me.

As for group queue, it's even worse.

That's what we have right now, and you don't seem to like it.

[xTrident]

Davers, on 08 September 2016 - 09:45 AM, said:

That's what we have right now, and you don't seem to like it.

Based on my experience going from tier 3 to tier 2, no that is not what we have right now. Something changed and the only thing I can think of is I'm limited to who I'm playing with on the bottom tiers. Tier 2 should mean I don't play with any tier 5 players.

So no it's not what we have now.

[Davers]

xTrident, on 08 September 2016 - 11:33 AM, said:

Based on my experience going from tier 3 to tier 2, no that is not what we have right now. Something changed and the only thing I can think of is I'm limited to who I'm playing with on the bottom tiers. Tier 2 should mean I don't play with any tier 5 players.

So no it's not what we have now.

So you would prefer to go against Tier 5 players again so you can feel better?

[Revis Volek]

You gimp yourself when taking groups over 6 or being a small group and NOT taking all the tonnage available for your group.

That little green number at the bottom, make sure it says 0 before you drop or prepare to be out tonned.

Davers, on 08 September 2016 - 11:37 AM, said:

So you would prefer to go against Tier 5 players again so you can feel better?

Dude, reading comprehension seems to be lost on you today. You should re read his last post he clearly says he DOESNT wanna play with T5's. How you think that means the opposite is beyond me.

Edited by Revis Volek, 08 September 2016 - 12:15 PM.

[Tibbnak]

So if you wanted to play in solo que with a 12 man group, you'd organize 3 players in each weight category of any tonnage, have everyone only set one specific server up (n.america, europe, or oceanic) together, have a 13th alt account potato testing the waters to wait until a match starts, then disconnect the potato and have a countdown over teamspeak or discord to press the quick play button at the same time?

The only real outlier is sometimes you'll be on opposite teams.

Edited by Tibbnak, 08 September 2016 - 11:46 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Tibbnak, on 08 September 2016 - 11:45 AM, said:

So if you wanted to play in solo que with a 12 man group, you'd organize 3 players in each weight category of any tonnage, have everyone only set one specific server up (n.america, europe, or oceanic) together, have a 13th alt account potato testing the waters to wait until a match starts, then disconnect the potato and have a countdown over teamspeak or discord to press the quick play button at the same time?

The only real outlier is sometimes you'll be on opposite teams.

Wow, so much work trying to break rules and go against the CoC, why not just get gud?