67 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

BoldricKent, on 09 September 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

Actually there is a Bushwacker Omni variant, called Gauntlet but i comes out in TRO 3130 or there abouts.
Look up sarna.net .

Except it's not a "variant''
It's a whole other mech.

[Vasili Kerensky]

Karamanthos, I'm into Battletech for about 25 years. I own the TRO3058 where the Bushwhacker first appeared. There's nothing in the description to lead one to believe that it cannot torso-twist. I'll grant you that the original drawing of the 'mech is quite strange - a stupidly elongated upper body and a connection to the legs that can lead one to believe that it's impossible to twist its torso. It's the picture that you see at Sarna and the MUL. However, all other pictures of the 'mech - including the cover of TRO3058 - show a different design which can obviously torso-twist.

It was never an omnimech and there's no reference - obscure or otherwise - that even hints at it ever being destined to be an omnimech, much less being one.

Just because I'm a huge nerd, I'll add the following after re-examining the original drawing: You can clearly see a huge axle running between the legs, placed at the front of the upper hips. The torso can be situated on that axle so that it can twist. In the picture, the 'mech is too low and the description states that the torso was designed to minimize its profile. What we see is a hunched-down Bushwhacker that has assumed that stance to display to some general how minimal its profile can become. Also, the rear of the lower torso is designed to accommodate this stance, hence why we see the legs connected to the lower half of the rear torso. Once it rises to its full height, it fits the cover image. There

Edited by Vasili Kerensky, 09 September 2016 - 04:14 AM.

[Plastic Guru]

dervishx5, on 09 September 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

Basically you've entered a forum full of people who were either bullied in high school, had a lot of siblings, or hung out with nerds for most of their life (or a combination of some of these). These people will not only physiologically need to correct you, they will call you stupid for being wrong.

How you choose to deal with it is up to you.

I know a lot of people play BT because of the Geek factor but there's a bunch of us who play MWO because of tactics and military nostalgia. Most of us played the poo out of COD until we got burned out.
(Me in Saudi Arabia 1990)


Doesn't mean we don't agree with you that THIS IS NOT AN OMNIMECH.

Per SARNA
"....the Mech was redesigned after schematics for a mech known as the Vulture were captured during a raid into clan territory. Information gleaned from the schematics was used to overcome the aforementioned engine shielding problems..."
It was not redesigned to be an Omnimech....they used the schematics to fix a problem in the cooling system.

Plastic Guru

Edited by Plastic Guru, 09 September 2016 - 05:49 AM.

[Aresye]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 September 2016 - 03:53 AM, said:

Why on earth would people ask for mechs to be implemented without torso twist????? all that would do is make the mech completely unplayable. Being completely unable to move laterally to your target would make a mech useless.

Because:
1. It's canon (Not for the Bushwacker, but definitely for the Nova and Ebon Jag)
2. It would introduce a unique style of gameplay, allowing for a more diverse experience.
3. Turn speed and acceleration quirks can be easily implemented to offset the drawback of not having a torso twist.
4. Like previous MW games, a small amount of torso twist (ex: 10-15 degrees) could be added to still allow for fine mouse aim.

There's really no excuse. Previous MW games had mechs with no torso twist, and nobody seemed to have a problem using them.

Edited by Aresye, 09 September 2016 - 05:53 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Aresye, on 09 September 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

Because:
1. It's canon (Not for the Bushwacker, but definitely for the Nova and Ebon Jag)
2. It would introduce a unique style of gameplay, allowing for a more diverse experience.
3. Turn speed and acceleration quirks can be easily implemented to offset the drawback of not having a torso twist.
4. Like previous MW games, a small amount of torso twist (ex: 10-15 degrees) could be added to still allow for fine mouse aim.

There's really no excuse. Previous MW games had mechs with no torso twist, and nobody seemed to have a problem using them.

previous games had your weapons shooting through your own model to allow tracking, too. MEH

[Widowmaker1981]

Aresye, on 09 September 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

Because:
1. It's canon (Not for the Bushwacker, but definitely for the Nova and Ebon Jag)

Who really cares, its a PvP game, people arent going to use horrendously sub standard stuff, so its not worth PGIs time to make it when only 3 lore nerds will buy it.

Aresye, on 09 September 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

2. It would introduce a unique style of gameplay, allowing for a more diverse experience.

Well, unique in that it would just be horrendous, surely you can see that only being able to shoot at things you are moving directly toward is an ENORMOUS handicap? No strafing at all. no twisting damage. In a medium. Bye bye as soon as you shoot at anything that decides to shoot back?

Aresye, on 09 September 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

3. Turn speed and acceleration quirks can be easily implemented to offset the drawback of not having a torso twist.

No, they cant, because you still have to move directly toward anything you are shooting, or stand still. both of which are a good way to insta die in a medium mech.

Aresye, on 09 September 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

4. Like previous MW games, a small amount of torso twist (ex: 10-15 degrees) could be added to still allow for fine mouse aim.

Thats not no torso twist then, is it? its just incredibly limited torso twist (which would still make the mech unplayably bad, but still)

[Bishop Steiner]

Karamanthos, on 09 September 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

Uhm....why PGI? WHY?!


why did you give this thing a twistable torso? its not supposed to have one......give it a better turn rate instead...make it unique...like the Nova should have been...

and uhh...last time I checked, this was an OMNIMECH

THE 1ST INNERSPHERE OMNIMECH

so why does the sales page indicate that it's not?

Clanners got regular mechs in those 2C deals....so the IS getting an omni chassis clearly isn't OMFG OP

gemme my omni if you want my money

Karamanthos, on 09 September 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

Im not an idiot, I just own the original frigging lead/rallidium minitature of the mech, and the TRO it 1st came out in...not whatever retconned garbage that came later in the pc games. So I DO know what its supposed to look like...heck the figurine was so poorly balanced it liked to flop over on 1 side all the dang time unless you glued a steel pin support on its rump to help hold it up because some funny guy at the fig factory decided to mold it in 'mid stride'


as for why I want it to be an omni mech? merely because it WAS one...no more no less...as far as omni mechs go? it was a pretty sub par performing one on tabletop...very undergunned for the tonnage to what it was expected to have to fight.


but thankyou for calling me a troll and an idiot...the internet and anonymity is no excuse for bad tact and language.

I won't call you an idiot, but you are,demonstrably wrong. And to continue to argue, incorrectly, in the face of proof, well, that is foolish.




bushwacker mini

bushwacker TRO


bushwacker on cover of said TRO


MW4 Model



Mech Commander 2


You'll note that all but one drawing, renders the BSW with a twistable torso. Now if you are the one perswon who thinks that BSW should look like that, feel free, but the weight is against. Secondly, I made it a point to scan the BSW entry from my original 1995 edition of the TRO 3058.

Not an Omnimech
Not Clan Tech

Get over it.

***[Plastic Guru Edit]***

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 September 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[DaZur]

Give him some slack... Up until earlier this week I had it in my mind it was a Clan mech.

I feel dirty.

[dervishx5]

DaZur, on 09 September 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

Give him some slack... Up until earlier this week I had it in my mind it was a Clan mech.

I feel dirty.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Karamanthos, on 09 September 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

Uhm....why PGI? WHY?!


why did you give this thing a twistable torso? its not supposed to have one......give it a better turn rate instead...make it unique...like the Nova should have been...

and uhh...last time I checked, this was an OMNIMECH

THE 1ST INNERSPHERE OMNIMECH

so why does the sales page indicate that it's not?

Clanners got regular mechs in those 2C deals....so the IS getting an omni chassis clearly isn't OMFG OP

gemme my omni if you want my money

It is neither an omnimech nor a Blackhawk-style non-twister. PGI got it right on both counts.

[Plastic Guru]

Bishop

You forgot something....
<snip>
Not an Omnimech
Not Clan Tech
Get over it.
(drops mic and walks away)

There...fixed it for you...

Plastic Guru

[Bishop Steiner]

DaZur, on 09 September 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

Give him some slack... Up until earlier this week I had it in my mind it was a Clan mech.

I feel dirty.

It's OK to be incorrect. And in his defense, the TRO interior art is missing a lower torso. (Good god that is art is shudderingly bad).

But once shown to be so, I don't recall you arguing back.

Plastic Guru, on 09 September 2016 - 06:29 AM, said:

Bishop

You forgot something....
<snip>
Not an Omnimech
Not Clan Tech
Get over it.
(drops mic and walks away)

There...fixed it for you...

Plastic Guru

fixed my post for you

[Felbombling]

OMG... just thinking about running a Mech without the ability to roll damage... /cringe

[Monkey Lover]

I do wish they made it fatter and closer to the ground.

[Metus regem]

Karamanthos, on 09 September 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

Uhm....why PGI? WHY?!


why did you give this thing a twistable torso? its not supposed to have one......give it a better turn rate instead...make it unique...like the Nova should have been...

and uhh...last time I checked, this was an OMNIMECH

THE 1ST INNERSPHERE OMNIMECH

so why does the sales page indicate that it's not?

Clanners got regular mechs in those 2C deals....so the IS getting an omni chassis clearly isn't OMFG OP

gemme my omni if you want my money

Seriously dude?

The Bushwacker has never been an Omnimech, this is clearly shown by it's call letters:

BSW-X1
BSW-X2
BSW-L1
BSW-S2
BSW-S2r


All IS Omnimechs have the call letter of "O" after their three letter/number designation, for example:

Sunder Omni-mech:

SD1-O
SD1-OA
SD1-OB
SD1-OC
SD1-OD
SD1-OE
SD1-OF
SD1-OG
SD1-OR
SD1-OX

If you think she is an Omni-mech, it must be something from MW4....

As for no torso twist, the only depicted image of the Bushwacker with out the ability to torso twist is the line art from TRO 3058, every other image of it, even the one on the cover of TRO 3058 has the ability to torso twist.

Karamanthos, on 09 September 2016 - 03:09 AM, said:

Im not an idiot, I just own the original frigging lead/rallidium minitature of the mech, and the TRO it 1st came out in...not whatever retconned garbage that came later in the pc games. So I DO know what its supposed to look like...heck the figurine was so poorly balanced it liked to flop over on 1 side all the dang time unless you glued a steel pin support on its rump to help hold it up because some funny guy at the fig factory decided to mold it in 'mid stride'

Do you mean these minatures:






All three of these show it have the ability to torso twist due to how the legs attach to the torso in that lower joint.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 09 September 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

Seriously dude?



All three of these show it have the ability to torso twist due to how the legs attach to the torso in that lower joint.

A little late to the party, but well done.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 September 2016 - 07:29 AM.

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 09 September 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

A little late to the party, but well done.

Yea.. but I saw this lastnight, but was too busy with kids to be able to respond... still I wanted too.

[Lucian Nostra]

What is this I don't even?

Omni? No torso?

I mean I guess enough has been posted but.. just where do these ideas come from? and the conviction!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Karamanthos, on 09 September 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

and uhh...last time I checked, this was an OMNIMECH

WHY THE HELL would you even WANT an omnimech is this game EVER on IS side? The one thing IS have going for them is flexibility. Having chassis locked **** wouldnt help AT ALL in this game.

[Mystere]

dervishx5, on 09 September 2016 - 03:17 AM, said:

Basically you've entered a forum full of people who were either bullied in high school, had a lot of siblings, or hung out with nerds for most of their life (or a combination of some of these). These people will not only physiologically need to correct you, they will call you stupid for being wrong.

How you choose to deal with it is up to you.

Well, there's direct action, subversion, marginalization, annihilation -- take your pick.