4 replies to this topic

[Pragr]

I've just returned to the game and noticed the implementing changes of ghost heat is in process. First I was impressed. Finally. But more information I get more skeptical I am. Let me see why.

I was always curious about the whole system. The whole MW world is considered as sci-fi, so the basic physics should work. That leads me to my first surprise. There is no heat generated by the engine. That's something clearly wrong no matter the point of view. Bigger or in our cases stronger engine of the same kind ALWAYS generates more waste heat. So how the hell could STD/XL100 produces same heat as 350 is beyond any logic. Even if I consider the increase number of inner heat sinks incorporated in engine, there is still no difference between the 250 rating engine with 10 HS and 350 with the same amount of inner heat sinks. How this is possible???

Make the heat generation primarily associated with engine rating and many problems will be gone. So the assaults will be slow and hot but with space and tonnage to deal with. Lights on the other end of spectrum will be either very fast with high rating and hot engine but their weapons load will be limited by the heat threshold. Or they will have bigger heat capacity for weapon systems but with lower rating engines thus will be slower. The same applies for medium and heavies. The balance between the engine heat generation and the heat sinks dissipation rating is just the matter of testing.

Once the basic balance would be determined there will be time to weapons remodeling. Energy weapons should be less heat effective but suffer no deterioration during successive usage. On the other hand ballistics should generate less heat but suffer by increasing dispersion if they are used in successive shots (since the barrel goes hot). I'm not sure about the missiles 'cause I do not use them a lot.

This solution would solve many problems we see in the game for a long. Mechs with incredible alpha, super fast lights with significant firepower, the issue that all mechs are very easy to destroyed etc.

[Hotthedd]

In BT, the heat to a mech doesn't come from the engine (unless the shielding has been damaged), it comes from the Internal Structure (myomers, electronic circuits, actuators, etc.), and waste heat from weapons.

Just as in an athlete, running and jumping doesn't make the heart heat up and transfer out to the body, it makes the muscles throughout the body heat up.

[Spleenslitta]

Good thinking outside the box OP. We need more of that. What happens to engines rated lower than 250?
Do they overheat easier?

I'll stay completly neutral on whether i support the idea though.

[Pragr]

Hotthedd, on 14 September 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

In BT, the heat to a mech doesn't come from the engine (unless the shielding has been damaged), it comes from the Internal Structure (myomers, electronic circuits, actuators, etc.), and waste heat from weapons.

Just as in an athlete, running and jumping doesn't make the heart heat up and transfer out to the body, it makes the muscles throughout the body heat up.

OK. I have absolutely no knowledge of BT. I just use the logic and physical basics. High performance combustion engines (in aviation) have problems to not overheat even on idle. Under specific environmental circumstances of course. While the lower performance engines have no such issues under the same conditions. Just because they produce way more heat.

The fusion generators (as I have no idea which kind of engine is "officially" utilized by mechs) are even worse. They have so slow ramp rates it's impossible to change their output in matter of minutes let alone in seconds. So the only possible way is that the generator is running on the rated power all the time and pilot only set how much of this power is actually used. But the heat produced by the generator is still the same.

But all my premises are based on physics. Not on the BT rules. Which is probably my biggest limitation

Btw, do I understand it right that according to BT the heavier the mech is, the more heat produces? Sine all those actuators and other stuffs have to move with higher mass thus need more power and thus produce more heat ?

Edited by Pragr, 14 September 2016 - 09:07 PM.

[Hotthedd]

Pragr, on 14 September 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

OK. I have absolutely no knowledge of BT. I just use the logic and physical basics.

www.sarna.net is a good resource.

Pragr, on 14 September 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

High performance combustion engines (in aviation) have problems to not overheat even on idle. Under specific environmental circumstances of course. While the lower performance engines have no such issues under the same conditions. Just because they produce way more heat.

Right, but the biggest thing to remember is that, in BT, Battlemechs do not use combustion engines. (At least, none of the 'mechs in MW:O) In BT, the fusion engines produce very little waste heat, as the super-heated plasma is contained in a vacuum, and surrounded by tons of shielding, and its own heat sinks. The heavier (higher rated) engines are heavier (but not larger) due to the extra shielding (for a presumably more massive reaction) rather than from the size of the power source.
The reason is for balance. If higher rated engines took up more space, Assault mechs would have less room for weapons, defeating their game purpose.

Pragr, on 14 September 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

The fusion generators (as I have no idea which kind of engine is "officially" utilized by mechs) are even worse. They have so slow ramp rates it's impossible to change their output in matter of minutes let alone in seconds. So the only possible way is that the generator is running on the rated power all the time and pilot only set how much of this power is actually used. But the heat produced by the generator is still the same.

Yes, it is assumed that the power generated is constant, but excess power is fed back into sustaining the reaction. Perhaps a bit of BT handwavium, but necessary to make bigger engines playable.

Pragr, on 14 September 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

But all my premises are based on physics. Not on the BT rules. Which is probably my biggest limitation

Exactly, and welcome to the war of the faction of players who wish MW:O to remain true to the IP, and the faction who does not care about the BT universe at all. It has been being waged for 4 years now in MW:O.

Pragr, on 14 September 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

Btw, do I understand it right that according to BT the heavier the mech is, the more heat produces? Sine all those actuators and other stuffs have to move with higher mass thus need more power and thus produce more heat ?

Yes and no.
More energy necessary, yes. That is why a lighter mech can go faster than a heavier mech if both have the same rated engine. But as outlined above, BT fusion engines do not produce waste heat. The heat buildup in a 'mech is from the "muscles" and "nerves" with some heat generated by friction and weapons.
BT handwavium: Heavier 'mechs have more mass (and surface area dissipation), lighter 'mechs have more friction (and less surface area) and game play wise, it is a wash.