There was a poll or thread immediately after the round table asking what people thought about it, but there was no outcome at that time.
To be precise, I believe the outcomes that we know of are: the elimination of buckets in FP and swapping the Long Tom out for some kind of advanced ECM.. After the 40-page discussion, 6-hour pre-roundtable live talk, or the round table itself, it seems that FP will become QP with drop decks.
Now that results have emerged and decisions have been made, it seems a fair time to ask how people now feel about the round table. Was it productive? Worth it? Should it happen again? If it happens again, would you participate?
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, here are the two most relevant threads:
I think it is still too early to speak of outcomes. Last week's podcast put forth an awful lot of Russ's thoughts, ideas and purported intentions that are (maybe?) to be instituted I believe he said "in a few months". Those changes included the effective elimination of Long Tom, as well as the elimination of buckets, and FP as we know it (FP becomes QP with drop decks essentially).
But all of that is moot. When has PGI EVER proposed something and then put it into the game as proposed, and in the time frame stated? Until we get the changes and play them, there is no "outcome" to the round table.
Disappointed. Failed to address the main reasons FW is not fun and mostly ignored (lane attack maps, poorly designed game mode, no depth, no economy, no impact for 90% of players when a planet is lost or taken).
Yup the discussion was pretty much about buckets and longtoms, which are important. But it's all pointless if territory has no meaning. One of the Unit Commanders brought up "factories" on planets that would give discounts to the owners for the factories outputted item. For instance, your unit takes planet Beta 7 which makes SRM-6's, you get them at half price. More noteworthy planets could produce engines. Of course there wouldn't actually be a factory to see, so its just a matter of editing spreadsheets.
Russ kind of glossed over this topic due to the bucket concern. Buckets may bring the players in, but something worth fighting over will keep them there.
Edited by SmithMPBT, 14 September 2016 - 08:29 AM.
Yup the discussion was pretty much about buckets and longtoms, which are important. But it's all pointless if territory has no meaning. One of the Unit Commanders brought up "factories" on planets that would give discounts to the owners for the factories outputted item. For instance, your unit takes planet Beta 7 which makes SRM-6's, you get them at half price. More noteworthy planets could produce engines. Of course there wouldn't actually be a factory to see, so its just a matter of editing spreadsheets.
Russ kind of glossed over this topic due to the bucket concern. Buckets may bring the players in, but something worth fighting over will keep them there.
I suspect that their immediate goal is to increase the active population in FP before devoting development assets to something like that. Of course, that is predicated on the existence of a short and long-term plan. The idea is good, as territory and planet conquest should actually mean something.
Personally, I would rather they eliminate the mandatory chokepoint concept in the maps before they bother with anything else.
NO LOGISTIC, NO PARTY.
Period.
Any serious war campaign must have.
Then, there is no reason to own a planet, there is no objective to aquire.
And lore is FULL of example pgi should take from: they only did tukayyid, but what about many other campaigns, or even create one.
SO, CW is a joke, it is the same as common pug drops: 5 minutes drop in puglandia, 20-25 minutes drops in CW, with 4 mechs.
Adding meaning to FP is apparently the one thing that is off the table.
What is being offered are fairly simple tweaks within the existing design, not rewriting the FP experience (as I have been posting about since 2012, asking for a rewrite of MPBT: 3025).
NO LOGISTIC, NO PARTY.
Period.
Any serious war campaign must have.
Then, there is no reason to own a planet, there is no objective to aquire.
And lore is FULL of example pgi should take from: they only did tukayyid, but what about many other campaigns, or even create one.
SO, CW is a joke, it is the same as common pug drops: 5 minutes drop in puglandia, 20-25 minutes drops in CW, with 4 mechs.
In the long run, both are boring.
OP asked about the outcome of the round table, not the current state of CW.
Not satisfied at all. Here's why. A tweet to Russ Bullock from a player:
Quote
Perception from roundtable players is that you focused on buckets at the expense of every other issue.
And his response:
Quote
that has to be fixed before we can turn attention to depth
And I'm like...WHY???!!! Even if it's true, why don't you share the reasons? Are their technical issues necessitating it?
Because in the absence of that, it looks to me like Russ (and some of the players) is on the wrong end of the chicken and egg argument. CW doesn't suck because the buckets are bad; the buckets are bad because CW sucks. It's a boring framework. The gamemode and map design is awful, and there's none of the logistics and economy layer that were part of the vision. There's no reason to take a planet other than to take the next one - no texture, no lore, no interest. You could make the buckets perfect and I doubt CW would experience a sudden renaissance in player numbers, especially with just six maps.
And because of the resulting lack of players, the buckets are struggling. Why don't you bite the bullet, do the hard work of imagination and design on CW, get it beyond the framework stage, and THEN see how the buckets are doing? Fixing buckets has all kinds of downsides and will inevitably piss someone off. Making CW better has no downsides.
Instead, the roundtable focused solely on the buckets, and the podcast that followed didn't really seem to indicate that Russ was interested in gamemodes, maps, or deeper CW content.
Edited by Rebas Kradd, 14 September 2016 - 09:18 AM.
The last Town Hall destroyed the last sliver of hope I had for FP.
Russ is fixated on bukkits and stripping factions of their faction-identity.. which is a direct slap to the face to anyone that has bought faction-based camos / colors / dekkels / cockpit items.
The Roundtable was almost entirely populated by mercenaries. Russ is giving us FP solutions that cater to mercenaries and screw over the loyalists.. which he already did when he moved from CW2 to FP3. He's essentially turning Faction Play into Mercenary Play, as has been the trend with Phase 3.
"Oh, but he said he'd give you guyses rare Special Battles so youse can fights ISvsIS!" Yeah.. and he's setting it up to fail, just like he set up the low heat cap on PTS to fail by lowering dissipation at the same time. We asked for low cap / high dissipation and he didn't' want it to succeed. Russ likes to set things up to fail so he can say, "Hey, guys.. we tried that and it didn't work." The loyalist community is already so small that we won't be able to fill a queue with one-faction vs one-faction, loyalist only.. especially after we lose even more loyalists to the mercenaries or to flat out quitting over CWv4FPv4 MercenaryPlay:v4.
The people at the top don't understand the game or what people want or how to make a fair and balanced decision. We suggested a four-faction alliance system since he was so fixated on, "reducing bukkits," but he decided that it was more effort than he felt like putting forth, so he's just going to throw us all into one bukkit and call it a day. The OneBukkitSolution is a terrible idea, in that it not only reduces the agency of the players by removing all choice but also will lead to long wait times for whichever side gets cursed with too much mercenary scum, that week.
RIP:FPv2
RIP:faction camo / color / dekkel /cockpit item buyers
OP asked about the outcome of the round table, not the current state of CW.
Which has nothing to do with, in your opinion?
Did anyone in the round table give ideas about how to improve CW?
Because, imo, if playerbase deserts cw is for the reasons I wrote.
Adding meaning to FP is apparently the one thing that is off the table.
What is being offered are fairly simple tweaks within the existing design, not rewriting the FP experience (as I have been posting about since 2012, asking for a rewrite of MPBT: 3025).
This problem and the point of factions has been plaguing CW/FP/or what ever it is called now for years. If depth was added bit by bit (as we are aware PGI is a small house) during these years - then the lack of interest/players would probably not have occurred, or at the very least not to the problem as it is now.
Has anyone ever asked Russ "why should I play CW/FP"?
To me, CW phase 1 was boring, unimaginative, shallow TDM with 4 respawn on some of the worst map design in multiplayer shooter. I quit MWO for 6 months, came back last month and all I see is the same phase 1 stuff (scouting was interesting tho) and talk of buckets! BUCKETS!
If I just want to go pew pew, QP is quicker and has more map variety. If I want to experience unit coordination, I just go in QP and turn on my mic. I just don't see what kind of players Russ thinks will enjoy CW in its current form.
How's that colorblind mode coming along? Still working on it? We can't tell because the last post on the forums was in June, by us.. the players. I can only assume it'll be another thing lost and forgotten.
Which has nothing to do with, in your opinion?
Did anyone in the round table give ideas about how to improve CW?
Because, imo, if playerbase deserts cw is for the reasons I wrote.
Sorry. My comment was apparently too subtle. My little emoji and "like" of your post was perhaps insufficient to get my tone of agreement across. I'll expound though as I am waiting for a client
The round table was two hours of "combining buckets" and then an hour and a half of Russ being barely present while players expressed ideas. some good some not. But ideas from the community nonetheless.
The last pod cast was full of horrid, mode killing proposals, most of which were focused on the destruction of factions and CW as we know it. With a bit of lip service paid to the player comments from the round table (eventual elimination of long tom and its replacement).
That said, I agree that the current state of CW is (without events) a wasteland largely avoided by most players.
Though I don't believe we have seen any real outcomes (other than these yet to be realized proposals from the podcast) from the round table as of yet, I don't foresee anything good coming from such outcomes, and in any event CW will remain a wasteland once the current event ends.
LocationHiding in the periphery, from Bounty Hunters
Posted 14 September 2016 - 10:53 AM
Bud Crue, on 14 September 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:
I think it is still too early to speak of outcomes. Last week's podcast put forth an awful lot of Russ's thoughts, ideas and purported intentions that are (maybe?) to be instituted I believe he said "in a few months". Those changes included the effective elimination of Long Tom, as well as the elimination of buckets, and FP as we know it (FP becomes QP with drop decks essentially).
But all of that is moot. When has PGI EVER proposed something and then put it into the game as proposed, and in the time frame stated? Until we get the changes and play them, there is no "outcome" to the round table.
Pretty much this.
My own feeling are though, if things do go through, in the exact way that Russ spoke of, I'm done.
Now I'm probably done as in supporting the game as it is, I find it hard to have any enthusiasm for the game, I've seen nothing added to this game in the last year that's made it better, and a lot that have made it worse, and I'm on another hiatus, until I feel like I miss the game which could be never.
However, things talked about by P.G.I now, are not likely to arrive until next year, so I could still be playing this game well past Spring 2017, if I ever feel like logging in some time.
Yup the discussion was pretty much about buckets and longtoms, which are important. But it's all pointless if territory has no meaning. One of the Unit Commanders brought up "factories" on planets that would give discounts to the owners for the factories outputted item......
Russ kind of glossed over this topic due to the bucket concern. Buckets may bring the players in, but something worth fighting over will keep them thiere.
Jeebus wept. Wasn't the idea of a factory ownership floated as a proposed idea 3-4 years ago? I mean only now there are MC rewards for ownership. Right now it's virtually meaningless if Tharkad or Hesperus or even some dirt ball periphery planet gets conquered . This is the key issue here with CW, retention for long term not attracting players for short term returns. I'd be willing to invest more time and money and even overlook some of the band-aid mechanics if there was progress on deeper in depth content like factories and even a basic economy.
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