59 replies to this topic

[ScoutMaster]

The duration difference between c-erlarge and c-lrgpulse right now is .05 seconds.

The damage difference is 1.

All of that for an extra 2 tons, 1 extra slot and less range?

Am I missing something here?

Edited by ScoutMaster, 16 September 2016 - 06:39 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Hopefully, changes come before GhostHeat Mk2 goes live

[SpiralFace]

They finally unlocked physical cool-down as a property of the weapons now. Which has brought the physical beam values of the weapons closer together, but has separated their cooldowns much more then what they are in live. (In live the LPL and the ER LL have the exact same cooldown.)

With the higher damage and a slightly lower beam duration, the LPL still does more damage per tick through the "burst" of the weapon, while also having a visibly different cool down which gives it greater overall dps.

And one thing to not forget is the LPL's RIDICULOUS optimal range compared to the IS version. 600 meter optimal still makes it very much a long range dps weapon, even if at extreme ranges the er LL might be better.

[Deathlike]

I'm sure the Dartboard of Balance™ will make more regular appearances regardless if GHv2/ED goes live.

[Lostdragon]

SpiralFace, on 16 September 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

They finally unlocked physical cool-down as a property of the weapons now. Which has brought the physical beam values of the weapons closer together, but has separated their cooldowns much more then what they are in live. (In live the LPL and the ER LL have the exact same cooldown.)

With the higher damage and a slightly lower beam duration, the LPL still does more damage per tick through the "burst" of the weapon, while also having a visibly different cool down which gives it greater overall dps.

And one thing to not forget is the LPL's RIDICULOUS optimal range compared to the IS version. 600 meter optimal still makes it very much a long range dps weapon, even if at extreme ranges the er LL might be better.

The thing is in real world scenarios CD is not that big of a distinguishing factor for the weapons. Beam duration is far more important and trading range and tonnage for a shorter duration is a lot more palatable than trading range qnd tonnage for a shorter CD.

[adamts01]

Was the damage nerfed to that of the ERLL as well? If not, that extra few dps is considerable, especially if mechs really have to pick and choose which few weapons they're going to fire.

SpiralFace, on 16 September 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

And one thing to not forget is the LPL's RIDICULOUS optimal range compared to the IS version. 600 meter optimal still makes it very much a long range dps weapon, even if at extreme ranges the er LL might be better.

This post has literally nothing to do with IS vs Clan.

Lostdragon, on 16 September 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

The thing is in real world scenarios CD is not that big of a distinguishing factor for the weapons. Beam duration is far more important and trading range and tonnage for a shorter duration is a lot more palatable than trading range qnd tonnage for a shorter CD.

Cooldown in the current poking meta doesn't matter. If alphas are lowered and the game switches to a dps/face-tanking meta, it could mean all the difference in the world. We don't know what the end result of this will bring.

[Lostdragon]

adamts01, on 16 September 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

Cooldown in the current poking meta doesn't matter. If alphas are lowered and the game switches to a dps/face-tanking meta, it could mean all the difference in the world. We don't know what the end result of this will bring.

I don't think ED has any chance of ending poking, it is just a common sense way to play. It may make the pokes smaller but you aren't going to ever see zellbrigen style combat in the game. Getting shot by 4+ mechs at once will still be a death sentence even if they are all only firing 30 damage salvos.

[Deathlike]

adamts01, on 16 September 2016 - 07:08 AM, said:

Was the damage nerfed to that of the ERLL as well? If not, that extra few dps is considerable, especially if mechs really have to pick and choose which few weapons they're going to fire.

CERLL got buffed though (lower damage, but SIGNIFICANTLY more usable duration).

IS ERLL however got buffed as well (much better duration, loss of damage though), at the cost of the IS LL getting screwed over (damage+duration nerf).

CERMEDs got buffed and will rule mid-long range once again though (overall max range increase+duration buff).

Edited by Deathlike, 16 September 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

You got to remember they're testing . The lpl might not be in this test and they're just watching the cer ll.

[Metus regem]

ScoutMaster, on 16 September 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

The duration difference between c-erlarge and c-lrgpulse right now is .05 seconds.

The damage difference is 1.

All of that for an extra 2 tons, 1 extra slot and less range?

Am I missing something here?

Duration?

I know it doesn't sound like a lot but 1.12 seconds (cLPL) vs. 1.5 seconds (cERLL) is a big difference when you are trying to get all your damage on target...

[Mole]

Hold on. Did they nerf the Clan LPL or buff the Clan ERLL?

[Snowbluff]

Mole, on 16 September 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

Hold on. Did they nerf the Clan LPL or buff the Clan ERLL?

C, comparing PTS ED 3.5 to Live:
C LPL -2 dmg, +.1 duration
CERLL: -1 dmg, -.25 duration

Edited by Snowbluff, 16 September 2016 - 07:32 AM.

[Mole]

Snowbluff, on 16 September 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

IIRC:
C LPL -1 dmg, +.1 duration
CERLL: -.25 duration

Oh. So a little bit of both. Well, that's not too bad I guess. Makes the Clan ERLL a bit more viable I suppose. As it stands in the live build right now I just see no reason whatsoever to use them over the Clan LPL. I've had a couple 'mechs that used Clan ERLLs and they ended up just being awful due to that crippling beam duration and I have since changed the build for every single Clan 'mech I used them on because I just couldn't deal with the beam duration.

[ScoutMaster]

SpiralFace, on 16 September 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

They finally unlocked physical cool-down as a property of the weapons now. Which has brought the physical beam values of the weapons closer together, but has separated their cooldowns much more then what they are in live. (In live the LPL and the ER LL have the exact same cooldown.)

With the higher damage and a slightly lower beam duration, the LPL still does more damage per tick through the "burst" of the weapon, while also having a visibly different cool down which gives it greater overall dps.

And one thing to not forget is the LPL's RIDICULOUS optimal range compared to the IS version. 600 meter optimal still makes it very much a long range dps weapon, even if at extreme ranges the er LL might be better.

You don't seem to realize that .05 seconds and 1 damage is practically no difference at all. There is no reason to waste 2 tons and an extra slot for it.

[Snowbluff]

Mole, on 16 September 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Oh. So a little bit of both. Well, that's not too bad I guess. Makes the Clan ERLL a bit more viable I suppose. As it stands in the live build right now I just see no reason whatsoever to use them over the Clan LPL. I've had a couple 'mechs that used Clan ERLLs and they ended up just being awful due to that crippling beam duration and I have since changed the build for every single Clan 'mech I used them on because I just couldn't deal with the beam duration.

Sorry, btu I went back and looked at it. Both had a -1 damage from before that. I adjusted the post.

[ScoutMaster]

Metus regem, on 16 September 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

Duration?

I know it doesn't sound like a lot but 1.12 seconds (cLPL) vs. 1.5 seconds (cERLL) is a big difference when you are trying to get all your damage on target...

It's 1.20 lrg pulse and 1.25 er large with 1 damage difference on the PTS right now.

Please read before posting.

[Mole]

Snowbluff, on 16 September 2016 - 07:34 AM, said:

Sorry, btu I went back and looked at it. Both had a -1 damage from before that. I adjusted the post.

Ew... ewewew... they're nerfing the damage on Clan LPLs by 2? Ugh... Hope that's not a change that makes it live...

[Snowbluff]

Mole, on 16 September 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

Ew... ewewew... they're nerfing the damage on Clan LPLs by 2? Ugh... Hope that's not a change that makes it live...

Yeah a lot of these notes are kind of garbage. I hope ERLL does get buffed in the final patch, because right now it's an awful weapon, and a lot of clan mechs are slot limited.

My favorite is "pin point weapons are too strong right now so we're nerfing the AC draw values"
Then Clan Autocannons, which are all duration based, also got nerfed. :l

Edited by Snowbluff, 16 September 2016 - 07:42 AM.

[Mole]

Snowbluff, on 16 September 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

Yeah a lot of these notes are kind of garbage. I hope ERLL does get buffed in the final patch, because right now it's an awful weapon, and a lot of clan mechs are slot limited.

My favorite is "pin point weapons are too strong right now so we're nerfing the AC draw values"
Then Clan Autocannons, which are all duration based, also got nerfed. :l

PGI gonna PGI, bro.

Edited by Mole, 16 September 2016 - 08:24 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Mcgral18, on 16 September 2016 - 06:47 AM, said:

Hopefully, changes come before GhostHeat Mk2 goes live

Ghost heat 2.0 may stick because of reasons, but it isn't very accurate any more because energy draw has a gauge.