32 replies to this topic

[maimaimi]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8b4bcf05fe03ecc

i was considering building something along these lines with the remit of having a mech that is a threat in all situations and can provide continuous suppression fire

2xLRM5 tiny things, lucky the enemy will only see "missiles incoming" and feel fear
4xUAC/2 main damage dealers, spewing a continuous blinding spray of hot lead at the enemy

12xERML Too hot to shoot constantly but can provide a definite coupe de grace to targets once their armor is low

thoughts?

[justcallme A S H]

1. Everything the UAC2 does, the UAC5 does better.
2. Far too many lasers, not even close to enough cooling.
3 2xLRM5s are a waste of tonnage


A far better idea if you want ballistic/laser mix would be something like THIS

You'll actually be able to fire for longer than 2 seconds before overheating and far better and crank out significantly more DPS/damage over a long period of time, killing/damaging more targets.

A DWF is a mobile artillery unit and can carry insane alpha damage, but, it's useless to try it unless you're just trolling

[maimaimi]

the medium lasers are more of a last ditch weapon when the enemy gets too close for comfort in my opinion, any laser bank is just backup if you run any number of AC guns

also small side note AC5 are trash, they are a heavier, less accurate, version of the AC2 with WORSE DPS/T and bad ammo/T rate... only reason to use AC5 is because it runs cold and is useful for hot light/medium mechs

if i wanted to run a shoot and twist build i would use AC10's, they hold 200damage/T ammo and are all round better then AC5 for this kind of mech

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ac7f2b5ea1aa3c
only 1400 damage in ammo but meh that's good enough

[justcallme A S H]

You're wrong on the UAC/AC whatever.

But given the flavour of your posts, you can't understand why anyway. A UAC5 is better than a UAC2, fact.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

maimaimi, on 21 September 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

the medium lasers are more of a last ditch weapon when the enemy gets too close for comfort in my opinion, any laser bank is just backup if you run any number of AC guns

also small side note AC5 are trash, they are a heavier, less accurate, version of the AC2 with WORSE DPS/T and bad ammo/T rate... only reason to use AC5 is because it runs cold and is useful for hot light/medium mechs

if i wanted to run a shoot and twist build i would use AC10's, they hold 200damage/T ammo and are all round better then AC5 for this kind of mech

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ac7f2b5ea1aa3c
only 1400 damage in ammo but meh that's good enough

UAC5s have FAR, FAR better Damage per heat. Worse DPS/T? At the cost of more frontloaded damage and a fraction of the heat.

Guess why people NEVER use UAC2s on their Dire unless trolling? Because UAC5s are fantastic weapons. 5 damage for 1 heat, 1.5s recycle time is a very attractive proposition since it's almost heat neutral weapon.

Also, C-ACs are placeholders, use LBXs or C-UACs. There's 0 reason to take a C-AC when it has worse cooldown, still triggers ghost heat and has no double tap. LBXs run cooler and C-UACs put out more DPS.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 21 September 2016 - 04:57 PM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

maimaimi, on 21 September 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

the medium lasers are more of a last ditch weapon when the enemy gets too close for comfort in my opinion, any laser bank is just backup if you run any number of AC guns

also small side note AC5 are trash, they are a heavier, less accurate, version of the AC2 with WORSE DPS/T and bad ammo/T rate... only reason to use AC5 is because it runs cold and is useful for hot light/medium mechs

if i wanted to run a shoot and twist build i would use AC10's, they hold 200damage/T ammo and are all round better then AC5 for this kind of mech

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ac7f2b5ea1aa3c
only 1400 damage in ammo but meh that's good enough

Whoa... 12 tons of weaponry is a last ditch weapon? You lost me right there...

Ac5 are trash? Wtf am I reading?!?

Lrm direwolf?

My brain hurts... I want to comment more... But I think I am just going to walk away from this thread...

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

If you're still hellbent on mixing UACs and LRMs, here's one

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1e86a96548ddc96

4UAC5 for mid range (approximately the Night Gyr's dakka loadout) and 4ERSL to extra DPS upclose if you run into a brawler.
3LRM5 to run out as you get in range.

[maimaimi]

on LRMs:
2xLRM5's does not a LRM boat make but 4 tones for the ability to make most mechs bow out and hide behind cover is nice. Fire support ability is nice to have since in TEAM PLAY (you know that thing where you have more then 1 player?) shooting even 5 or 10 LRM when you don't have a firing angle can help swing a fight or cause a rout in a fight for a teamate in distress...

on AC2 :
AC2 don't have ghost heat in the first place... and the 2000m/s instahit of ac2 is much nicer then ac5 for no real loss in DPS or firing endurance...
think of it this way - at 500m would you rather have a bit more DPS but 50% hit rate or a bit less DPS and a 80% hit rate?

on 12xERML : while i say "last ditch" i mean more along the lines of "last hit". I do not imagine having to fire off more then 2 or 3 shots from the ERML banks to finish off an opponent that makes it to that range since the 4xUAC/2 can shred most units before then

on the whole rationale : this is not a design I though up to be a brawler, more of a its more of a "realistic" multipurpose assault mech capable of filling any role and working with teamates to win.

PS: you should all be ashamed that NONE of your designs have TAG equipped on a 100 tone mech...
PPS: the actual issue with this desing -> more then 16 weapons, viva arbitrary limits

Edited by maimaimi, 21 September 2016 - 07:38 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

here is a more "sensible" version of your build concept:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c55f749f5fd0320

Still not great, but will have more utility and be easier to use.

Boogie138, on 21 September 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

here is a more "sensible" version of your build concept:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c55f749f5fd0320

Still not great, but will have more utility and be easier to use.

p.s.

You really need to drop your obsession with a tag laser on fat mechs.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Just wondering...

So 4x c-uac2 = 8 damage a volley... and 16 damage a double tap

And 4x c-uac5 = 20 damage a volley... And 40 damage a double tap...

I am pretty sure a 40 damage volley is worth risking a jam... But is 16 damage... Idk those jams really hurt the dps...

Also 2x c-uac10s + 2x c-uac5s = 40 + 20... Which equals 60 dmg a volley...

So uhm... Why are you using uac2s again?

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

maimaimi, on 21 September 2016 - 07:03 PM, said:

on LRMs:
2xLRM5's does not a LRM boat make but 4 tones for the ability to make most mechs bow out and hide behind cover is nice. Fire support ability is nice to have since in TEAM PLAY (you know that thing where you have more then 1 player?) shooting even 5 or 10 LRM when you don't have a firing angle can help swing a fight or cause a rout in a fight for a teamate in distress...

on AC2 :
AC2 don't have ghost heat in the first place... and the 2000m/s instahit of ac2 is much nicer then ac5 for no real loss in DPS or firing endurance...
think of it this way - at 500m would you rather have a bit more DPS but 50% hit rate or a bit less DPS and a 80% hit rate?

on 12xERML : while i say "last ditch" i mean more along the lines of "last hit". I do not imagine having to fire off more then 2 or 3 shots from the ERML banks to finish off an opponent that makes it to that range since the 4xUAC/2 can shred most units before then

on the whole rationale : this is not a design I though up to be a brawler, more of a its more of a "realistic" multipurpose assault mech capable of filling any role and working with teamates to win.

PS: you should all be ashamed that NONE of your designs have TAG equipped on a 100 tone mech...
PPS: the actual issue with this desing -> more then 16 weapons, viva arbitrary limits

Tag:
Why do I need a tag laser on a direct fire 100 ton mech? It does nothing. I'd rather have an extra ton of ammo or an extra heatsink, thank you very much. Even the BAP is 10x more useful.

Understand that you don't need tag to get locks. Use your "R" button and "Q" button.
I guess you know so much better than the community that has been around for years and knows where Tag is needed?

LRM5 "fire support":
You'll understand as you move up in PSR (if you do) that people giggle at your 2LRM5 that you claim is enough suppressing fire to "make them bow out" and tear off your ST in 2 seconds.

A 2UAC5 2PPC WHM putting 60 points of damage in one side torso versus a direwhale doing 20 damage spreading it all over and not sharing armour? Consider what is the real firesupport here.

Ghost heat:
I was talking about your "AC-10" build.

UAC5:
If you're having a 50% hit rate at 500 m with UAC5s, that's a you problem, not a weapon problem. Heck, I was seeing Writhenn's stream yesterday with his UAC10 Night Gyr (has EVEN LOWER velocity than UAC5) and he was hitting about 90% of the time at 500m.

ERML:
If you're at more than 20% heat, you will overheat just after clicking your second ERML group.

4UAC2 "shredding":
I know medium mechs that can put out more DPS than that, so good luck.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 21 September 2016 - 09:10 PM.

[762 NATO]

Hey man, if it is fun and effective for you, run it. It is a game. When it starts being ineffective or your teammates start shooting you, change to something more sensible in the "meta" sense. By ineffective I mean, less that 600 damage with 3-4 KMDDs. As long as that is the standard by which you judge your mechs (some tryhards demand less damage with more KMDDs), you will be doing fine.

Cheers!

[Kimberm1911]

Tag on a 100 tonne mech? Obvious troll is obvious.

[maimaimi]

ill take my +6000 cbils/kill hapily

my DWF is currently running 8xERSL but i used to run 6xUAC2 which was awesome as hell (everyone forgets that UAC2 gets crit bonus)

I rarely have any reason to use more then 3 of my ERML lasers because the DAKKA of 1000RPM autocannons is pretty hot... (hint : 400m+ engagement range means that you out DPS anything using UAC2, and you can keep shooting for 23 seconds)

my actual "practical" DWF design, its a monster on the battlefield as long as its not cornered in an area with bad LOS
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e0444267113e5eb

Edited by maimaimi, 08 October 2016 - 03:58 AM.

[Nerd Incognito]

This is what I would run, if I was putting it together, I think.

I would probably get Fire Control and time the UACs to be a continuous stream (or as close as possible) for my first weapon group. I'd put all the ML on my second group, and then *maybe* run a third group as an alpha for those "get me the hell out of here" situations...then again, with a DWF, facing you should BE one of those situations--for someone else.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Fire Control is not worth it on a UAC5 dire.

You need that burst damage, otherwise you just get melted.

[Nazlfrag]

Here's an option, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2d9760331f5c8af

A little light on ammo but it's decent. Direwolves should be about dakka.

[maimaimi]

Nazlfrag, on 13 October 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

Here's an option, http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2d9760331f5c8af

A little light on ammo but it's decent. Direwolves should be about dakka.

O,o can you actually torso twist a DWF in 1.65 seconds that the uac5 take to reload

for just outright brawling someone down face to face I have to agree with above that a classic UAC5/ERSL is much more effective, nothing can match the stompyness of a DWF at close range(real truth, DWF is the meanest mech in game)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4dbf9c26fa7928f

a solid 100 damage 2 phase alpha strike is unstopable

Edited by maimaimi, 13 October 2016 - 07:49 AM.

[Kimberm1911]

*whispers* Troll thread.

*Stomps away in an Atlas

[Tier5 Kerensky]

My best Dire Wolfs usually have 2xUAC20 and several ER-L, I think maybe 4, UACs on the torso, lasers on the hands. It's a good mix of long range and short range. Shoot long range anything that dares to move in open, short range for anyone that dares to try come close. I prefer to have at least one jump jet on the CT, because that thing can't even walk over some small rocks.



But I often run with more lasers and no ballistic, like 6x ER-L 2xlarge pulse and lots of heat sinks. I really dislke brawling, you can't do it alone so builds like that require a lot of waiting for your team choose a direction and pushing there. With long range weapons you are able to engage the enemy the moment you see them, without waiting the enemy or your team to make any move. It will just suck because it's not effective enough. It could be, if some of your team mates would like to save their own armor and health by staying close to the sniping Dire with nearly full armor as eventually you would either win or the enemy would creep around to the Dire, but it never happens so most of the times you get taken out eventually.

The best thing about Dire Wolf is you are able to boat anything other than missile weapons and try them out and compare which sucks the least.