19 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

I think someone mentioned a while ago that he's tired of seeing HPG and Canyon Network. I agree. I am so tired of seeing these maps because people have a bias opinion that they are the most "balanced."

I personally want Terra Therma to be played more.

Ok, this is NOT a thread to discuss whether some maps are better. But rather, to solve the problem of having a map spawning too much, can we adjust the chance of map appearance rate based on how often some maps are spawned?

Like, before you flame me, this is NOT saying that PGI should dictate which map will spawn, but

something like this:

For a period of 4 hours:

you collect statistics on map A, B, C, D, E, and F.

The system detects that map A is being played about 50% of the time (or at a rate higher)

So your four choices are now more likely going to be B, C, D, E, and F. Not saying A won't appear ever now, but A's chance is now not 80%. But maybe 75%.

This effect is progressive. So maybe for the next four hours, A still spawn at a higher rate than every other map, at 40%. So now, the chance of A to be on the 4 choices is now just 65%.

Something like that. If we have this, map B, C, D, E, and F will have higher chance of appearing, and have a higher chance to be picked.

Now, our map pool is like... 12 I think. So most likely, you won't even feel a significant difference. But I think even having a slight increase, I would really like that.

[Glaive-]

Part of the problem is that most people are still going pick any map other than Caustic or Terra Therma.
Gonna have to "fix" those maps before people start picking them more often.

[Tyler Valentine]

So sick of HPG, Mining and Canyon. I love those maps but Christ...

[Deathlike]

I feel like you're trying to rig RNGesus.

Unless the distribution is distorted naturally speaking (which straight RNGesus prevents in the first place), your idea to commandeer RNGesus is more likely going to amplify selection of the more popular maps.

RNGesus will inevitability give a relatively even distribution anyways... within expected margins. Trying to rig it will likely cause more unintended behaviors.

TL;DR Popular maps will be picked because they are popular. Bad maps won't be picked because... reasons. Fixing bad maps is often a better productive solution than just rigging the distribution.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 September 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[JadePanther]

armyunit, on 23 September 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

Part of the problem is that most people are still going pick any map other than Caustic or Terra Therma.
Gonna have to "fix" those maps before people start picking them more often.

fixing those maps has nothing to do with it.. unless u mean remove the HEAT from them.. the fact is that people wanna run stuipidly hot builds with poor heat management skills..

The only real way to fix it is to remove map voting entirely and force people to have to build more heat neutral builds..

[Deathlike]

armyunit, on 23 September 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

Part of the problem is that most people are still going pick any map other than Caustic or Terra Therma.
Gonna have to "fix" those maps before people start picking them more often.

JadePanther, on 23 September 2016 - 05:34 PM, said:

fixing those maps has nothing to do with it.. unless u mean remove the HEAT from them.. the fact is that people wanna run stuipidly hot builds with poor heat management skills..

The only real way to fix it is to remove map voting entirely and force people to have to build more heat neutral builds..

That's woefully inaccurate, to an extent.

My favorite hot map is Tourmaline. I'm pretty sure it's one of the better maps that even the comp community and leagues like. Heat doesn't bother me that much.

Terra Therma... of all maps is terrible... design-wise. The only credit I give it is that it's great in Conquest, and not much else.


Put together any top 4 "worst" maps in the game. I'd say a fair portion of people will have Terra Therma on that list. This idea/change would only increase the distribution of the "not the worst maps", and not so much TT.

TL;DR

I'm pretty sure that a lot of people will pick a map not-named Terra Therma, and you'll get screwed even more in the end because of this design decision.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 September 2016 - 05:42 PM.

[JadePanther]

Deathlike, on 23 September 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

That's woefully inaccurate, to an extent.

My favorite hot map is Tourmaline. I'm pretty sure it's one of the better maps that even the comp community and leagues like. Heat doesn't bother me that much.

Terra Therma... of all maps is terrible... design-wise. The only credit I give it is that it's great in Conquest, and not much else.


Put together any top 4 "worst" maps in the game. I'd say a fair portion of people will have Terra Therma on that list. This idea/change would only increase the distribution of the "not the worst maps", and not so much TT.

TL;DR

I'm pretty sure that a lot of people will pick a map not-named Terra Therma, and you'll get screwed even more in the end because of this design decision.

any amount of fixing to hot maps is not gonna change the community into voting for them whatsoever.. people are waaay to scared to fight on anything above a temperate map cause they will overheat tooo easily.. hot maps are mostly being used to throw away map votes to build up a multiplier.. people want thier cold maps sooo they can run huge high heat boating builds..

there was a time where there was no map voting.. and we had to build our builds not as hot and had to learn heat management skills.. how your mech performed on caustic valley was the standard you had to set your mech against..

[Deathlike]

JadePanther, on 23 September 2016 - 05:49 PM, said:

any amount of fixing to hot maps is not gonna change the community into voting for them whatsoever.. people are waaay to scared to fight on anything above a temperate map cause they will overheat tooo easily.. hot maps are mostly being used to throw away map votes to build up a multiplier.. people want thier cold maps sooo they can run huge high heat boating builds..

there was a time where there was no map voting.. and we had to build our builds not as hot and had to learn heat management skills.. how your mech performed on caustic valley was the standard you had to set your mech against..

Map design is the #1 issue of determining how good a map is.

Alpine... for however long it's been in the game.. is a terrible map. While PGI continues to shuffle cap/drop points on the map (and slow to change it in the first place), over half of the map goes unused. It's poorly balance. This is a bad cold map.

Any time you're putting the excuse to "noone picks hot maps", that's wrong. I'm not a fan of hot maps at times, but I don't (or at least try not to) complain about it. I play the deck that I get. Map design is the #1 issue in MWO for a while (FW/CW maps are at the forefront on this problem/issue) and to blame people who prefer colder maps is horribly wrong. Alpine isn't even a real consideration in most leagues (that map suffers from a horrible design from the offset).


TL;DR
Blaming "hot maps" as the problem is wholly wrong, when terrible maps like Alpine continue to exist. People will play the maps that they like... even if they are hot. So, that's just an excuse on the part of the player... but bad maps literally don't get played often simply because they are bad... hot or not.

Edited by Deathlike, 23 September 2016 - 06:00 PM.

[JadePanther]

Deathlike, on 23 September 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

Map design is the #1 issue of determining how good a map is.

Alpine... for however long it's been in the game.. is a terrible map. While PGI continues to shuffle cap/drop points on the map (and slow to change it in the first place), over half of the map goes unused. It's poorly balance. This is a bad cold map.

Any time you're putting the excuse to "noone picks hot maps", that's wrong. I'm not a fan of hot maps at times, but I don't (or at least try not to) complain about it. I play the deck that I get. Map design is the #1 issue in MWO for a while (FW/CW maps are at the forefront on this problem/issue) and to blame people who prefer colder maps is horribly wrong. Alpine isn't even a real consideration in most leagues (that map suffers from a horrible design from the offset).


TL;DR
Blaming "hot maps" as the problem is wholly wrong, when terrible maps like Alpine continue to exist. People will play the maps that they like... even if they are hot. So, that's just an excuse on the part of the player... but bad maps literally don't get played often simply because they are bad... hot or not.

saying people pick colder maps avoiding hot maps isnt entirely wrong.. normally an assumption like that would be.. but knowing how people will take the easier large damage route or hard and hot its quite on the point.. call it complaining or not I'm just pointing out one of the flaws in the gaming community.. if the gaming community didnt tend take the easy road full of free kills than not as many people would be raking in thousands of dollars selling cheats and hacks..

but hey put on your blinders and say it doesnt happen.. It may not happen all of the time but its happening more than you'd prolly like to admit..

is alpine peaks a bad example of a cold map.. yes it is.. but i've played it more than a good example of a hot map like Tourmaline desert.. bad cold is > good hot.. and i still see alpine more than polar highlands.. but theres bad maps in all temperatures..

TBH i dont think there should be map voting.. you get what you get.. live and die by RNGesus and deal with where u drop..

[Aiden Skye]

Honestly this isn't a democracy. Voting should just die. I too am tired of playing HPG, mining and canyon even though I do like those maps.

[Y E O N N E]

I do miss random maps. I loathe the voting.

[El Bandito]

W A R K H A N, on 23 September 2016 - 07:05 PM, said:

Honestly this isn't a democracy. Voting should just die. I too am tired of playing HPG, mining and canyon even though I do like those maps.

As someone who had just bought the KDK-3, I will be voting for Mining, Canyon, and HPG for the foreseeable future. Oh, and Bog.

[Tyler Valentine]

El Bandito, on 23 September 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

As someone who had just bought the KDK-3, I will be voting for Mining, Canyon, and HPG for the foreseeable future. Oh, and Bog.

Mine actually does really well on Therma, Caustic, and The Desert. Dakka runs cooler than most. Love that mech...

[Deathlike]

JadePanther, on 23 September 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

saying people pick colder maps avoiding hot maps isnt entirely wrong.. normally an assumption like that would be.. but knowing how people will take the easier large damage route or hard and hot its quite on the point.. call it complaining or not I'm just pointing out one of the flaws in the gaming community.. if the gaming community didnt tend take the easy road full of free kills than not as many people would be raking in thousands of dollars selling cheats and hacks..

but hey put on your blinders and say it doesnt happen.. It may not happen all of the time but its happening more than you'd prolly like to admit..

is alpine peaks a bad example of a cold map.. yes it is.. but i've played it more than a good example of a hot map like Tourmaline desert.. bad cold is > good hot.. and i still see alpine more than polar highlands.. but theres bad maps in all temperatures..

I never said it doesn't ever happen. I'm saying it's not the only reason.

Quote

TBH i dont think there should be map voting.. you get what you get.. live and die by RNGesus and deal with where u drop..

Map voting exists because people complained about getting Terra Therma and other bad maps in the first place. That and that game mode distribution was uneven. Before Domination was added, I'm willing to bet that Conquest wasn't as popular for others... and that affected the MM greatly in a negative way (if it wasn't in an even distribution, it would cause the MM to stall/wait for players that liked an unpopular game mode indefinitely until it was filled).

TL;DR
Mostly, this design (the voting) is predicated on the MM suffering from uneven gamemode distribution (an MM issue... indirectly related to gamemode popularity and population) and trying to "satisfy" people that didn't like horrible maps such as Terra Therma.

Yes, can you see the irony in all of this?

[C E Dwyer]

armyunit, on 23 September 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

Part of the problem is that most people are still going pick any map other than Caustic or Terra Therma.
Gonna have to "fix" those maps before people start picking them more often.

Caustic gets played more often than Forest, or Therma.

Stale is what happens when P.G.I listen to a few rage posters that wanted to cookie cutter pick their map and still get XP, private matches were not good enough for them.

So P.G.I come up with voting and the game gets same old same old, and the retention rate of players gets worse.

There are Maps and modes I can't stand, but at least when it was random, there was variety and an excuse for bad play, but even now after months of voting for the same damn map over and over there are still people that do dumb things, even though they touch it almost as much as their [Sensored by poster]

[Mystere]

Cathy, on 24 September 2016 - 07:25 AM, said:

Caustic gets played more often than Forest, or Therma.

Stale is what happens when P.G.I listen to a few rage posters that wanted to cookie cutter pick their map and still get XP, private matches were not good enough for them.

So P.G.I come up with voting and the game gets same old same old, and the retention rate of players gets worse.

There are Maps and modes I can't stand, but at least when it was random, there was variety and an excuse for bad play, but even now after months of voting for the same damn map over and over there are still people that do dumb things, even though they touch it almost as much as their [Sensored by poster]

Well, there is one fantastic thing PGI did accomplish beautifully (). Map voting forced me to create a "3 Skirmish games and I'm done with MWO for the day" rule. Heck, it sometimes gets promoted to a "... for the week" rule.

I'm very much now tempted to also create an equivalent map-based rule. <shrugs>

Edited by Mystere, 24 September 2016 - 07:33 AM.

[JadePanther]

i think i saw HPG 3x in a row last night.. yep its the most played map on my list and i rarely vote for it.. Lets just take a minute and give thanks to the vocal minority for getting us map voting.. Now if only there can be a vocal minority that can give me the ability to lock my mech in the dropship and fly away from these maps so i can find a different one..

[Deathlike]

Just so you know... I didn't care when PGI added voting.

I'll still scream MORDOR when playing Terra Therma, but considering that the limit of options is directly proportional to population, you can see why this trended the way it did.

[ARCTICF0X]

Is it really so hard to save up your multiplier till you eventually have the power to sway the vote to the map you want?

If the majority of players are getting their preference, why would PGI want to pander to the minority that aren't?

Or is it just a plain case of - I want what I want now, can't have it - better cry on forums.

[JadePanther]

ARCTICF0X, on 24 September 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Is it really so hard to save up your multiplier till you eventually have the power to sway the vote to the map you want?

If the majority of players are getting their preference, why would PGI want to pander to the minority that aren't?

Or is it just a plain case of - I want what I want now, can't have it - better cry on forums.

saving that multiplier means not voting at all very often in order to not waste it on crap.. let me have a multiplier increase for not voting (beacuse not choosing is still a choice) and then i wont mind quite as much... but really i dont see most maps winning the vote 80%, so they arent a vast majority of players voting on the winning map..

map voting is a rare option in games.. I see player mods that provide that kind of function, and lobby based games that would let me pick what ever map i want by changing lobbies.. but usually u have the optoin to leave.. this kind of system doesnt provide any real variety and ur stuck with it..

if they wanna give us voting then give me the option to pull my mech out of the match and go somewhere else.. or just take it out and let us deal with what RNG gives us like other games <cough> <cough> wot...