28 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

For weeks or months now, laser vomit has been laughed off as the old meta. Laughed off by whom? Who defines meta?

The degree to which the laser meta has been disparaged would have you believe it is equivalent to lurms or AC-2s.

These guys must all be comp players in group settings because in faction play they are still excellent loadouts for the tonnage slots commonly brought. Ebon Jag always over Hellbringer? Jagermech or Catapult always over Thunderwub?

Artic Cheetah is still a good alterative to the Jenner IIC.

I wish these meta lords would add a disclaimer saying that their meta is mostly comp, since a large number claim to be bored and or retired from faction play.


All I want is that disclaimer. There are multiple "metas". I don't see how the laser meta went extinct when a few mechs still have substantial heat reduction quirks, the very thing that made them desirable in the first place.

Edited by Spheroid, 24 September 2016 - 01:21 PM.

[Davers]

Well meta usually refers to comp play, and only trickles down in varying degrees into regular play.

But with the new ED you might notice a reduction in big alpha energy builds, so think of it as a prophecy.

[Tordin]

A healthy meta is a regurarly shifting meta. Shifting in the need for balance. Though some people get really upset when their comfort zone gets threatened.

[Chados]

I think that the Kodiak-3 is singlehandedly responsible for the demise of the laser meta. Ever since a 4-uAC10 or two uAC10/two uAC5 loadout became possible on a chassis as agile as most IS heavies, there is at least one in every single game you play in the solo queue and usually more than one in the group queue.

With the NTG, it seems that gauss rifles are becoming one current fad-you're seeing more heavyweight mechs acting like ERLL Ravens and hiding in distant corners sniping while mediums and King Crabs are doing the brawling. And OMG, the lurms. They're really popular. And for all the players on this forum taking an oath that you won't see them in high tier play, I'm here to tell you "tain't so, McGee." Clan LRM boating is all over high tier play, whenever I run with our T1s (presently T3 here) I see loads of them. And it seems that the high tier players were out this morning because I was on the losing end of a lot of ROFLstomps in solo quie at the hands of names and unit associations I didn't recognize.

I think you actually are more likely to find cLRM80-100 mechs when you fight a Tier 2-heavy opponent than you are vs. the lower tiers.

You know, it's funny. I have some of the best Clan mechs, you know? ACH, check. EBJ, check. HBR, check. TBR, check. And I hate them. Hate. With passion. They're hot, they're all nose, they're loadout limited. I see why Clan players complain all the time about IS bias. But the IS mechs are slooooow, underpowered, with weapons not nearly as good. Hence, I tend to like the 55 ton mediums-65 ton IS heavies (Marauders are the exception, I will always like the 3R). They answer my playstyle much better than the Clan mechs do even though the Clan mechs are objectively better. In fact, many times I've dropped in a Wolverine, Rifleman, Marauder, Dragon, Catapult, or Quickdraw (my overall best-liked chassis) and been the only IS mech on the battlefield.

[Y E O N N E]

The only reason laser-vomit is being disparaged is because some people still think it is the end-all, be-all when it really isn't. It has its strengths and uses but, if PGI keeps attacking it the way they have been, that won't be true for much longer.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 September 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

The only reason laser-vomit is being disparaged is because some people still think it is the end-all, be-all when it really isn't. It has its strengths and uses but, if PGI keeps attacking it the way they have been, that won't be true for much longer.

The Nerfinator™ missed the memo from quite a few months ago...

[Spheroid]

The Thunderwub has never been nerfed its its entire existence. Only that mild 50 meter range nerf which was nothing. I guess at some point people decided 65 tons wasn't beefy enough. The Black Knight was OP I am okay with its fall from grace, but the old, old, I.S. mplas meta is still there if you look.

Plus the Awesome-8Q still has -15% heat gen.

Edited by Spheroid, 24 September 2016 - 02:11 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Thunderwub got nerfed when Ghost Heat got applied to MPLs.

[Spheroid]

That never affected me since I run 6x mplas + 1x mlas + cooldown module +5. I prefer that to going down to six or splitting the alpha.

Edited by Spheroid, 24 September 2016 - 02:15 PM.

[Mystere]

"Meta" this!
"Meta" that!
Who really gives a flying frack about this "Meta" crap?!

Edited by Mystere, 24 September 2016 - 02:17 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Davers, on 24 September 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well meta usually refers to comp play, and only trickles down in varying degrees into regular play.

But with the new ED you might notice a reduction in big alpha energy builds, so think of it as a prophecy.

Or High alpha mixed builds. Cuase my atlas is fun but its 88 dmg, 60 heat alpha is running amok

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 24 September 2016 - 02:20 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Spheroid, on 24 September 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

That never affected me since I run 6x mplas + 1x mlas + cooldown module +5. I prefer that to going down to six or splitting the alpha.

Just pointing it out, though. The true Thunderwub was seven Medium Pulse. What made that build super stronk was being able to fire 42 points at 352 meters in the blink of an eye, on a 'Mech that was super tanky and super cold with a STD engine. In that context, forcing it to get closer and stagger its shots is a tremendous nerf.

I can't remember if it also got a heat-gen quirk reduction.

[Ultimax]

Spheroid, on 24 September 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:

For weeks or months now, laser vomit has been laughed off as the old meta. Laughed off by whom? Who defines meta?

The meta simply forms, no player defines it. (PGIs "tweaks" and mechs they release heavily influence or shift it - but they have no coherent understanding of how these things will actually change the game before they release them)

Upper skill level players (typically from competitive teams) will usually discover what are the most efficient, strongest or optimal builds/mechs and will run them.

You play against that with inferior mechs/builds and you will lose.


Slowly it trickles down to the rest of the playerbase.


Lasers aren't garbage, they simply don't dominate the meta as they did 9+ months ago.

Edited by Ultimax, 24 September 2016 - 04:30 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Spheroid, on 24 September 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

The Thunderwub has never been nerfed its its entire existence. Only that mild 50 meter range nerf which was nothing. I guess at some point people decided 65 tons wasn't beefy enough. The Black Knight was OP I am okay with its fall from grace, but the old, old, I.S. mplas meta is still there if you look.

Plus the Awesome-8Q still has -15% heat gen.

thats why the 5 or 6 mplas crab does really well as a brawler actually. STD engine and start ripping kids new pnes.

[Gladius Vittoris]

Spheroid, on 24 September 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

The Thunderwub has never been nerfed its its entire existence. Only that mild 50 meter range nerf which was nothing.

Man... 7mpl thunder was far far far better than now, because now sadly u cannot without heat penality.

6mpl + ml .... not nearly the same as previous mpl7 built

[Mcgral18]

Ultimax, on 24 September 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

Lasers aren't garbage, they simply don't dominate the meta as they did 9+ months ago.

RIP WubShee

Better effective damage in nearly the same quantity from 4x the range, with the same heat output (from 2 weapons, other 2 being heat negative)
PokeBear stronk

[Ultimax]

Mcgral18, on 25 September 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

RIP WubShee

Better effective damage in nearly the same quantity from 4x the range, with the same heat output (from 2 weapons, other 2 being heat negative)
PokeBear stronk

Yeah, I mean it was fun while it lasted but not needing to face hug things while pumping out huge dakka bursts at 500m is clearly superior and not something you can trade head on with.

[vonJerg]

Ultimax, he was referring to 2 x C-erPPC + 2 x C-Gauss

[PhoenixFire55]

Davers, on 24 September 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Well meta usually refers to comp play, and only trickles down in varying degrees into regular play.

FYI ... laservomit was never present in comp play in any significant way but it was still called meta. I.e. meta is what allows noobz in QP to easier pewpew other noobz from QP on all/most maps. Comp can't care less about meta as it has specific loadouts for specific maps and strategies.

The so-called powerful laservomit meta (or previous Gauss+PPCs meta) is so pathetically weak at close range compared to any kind of SRM+ballistic brawler that I don't even know how people can call it meta in the first place. But I guess if all you do is hide like a little girl 500m away from the fight while taking occasional pop-shots against said alpha-builds you can call it that.

Meh.

[Y E O N N E]

Laser vomit was present in comp play in a significant fashion. See: Quickdraw and Black Knight before the IS quirk nerfs and the Timberwolf before them.