27 replies to this topic

[Mr Pockets]

I'm gonna be honest, and there's a bit of a story here that can grant maybe a bit of perspective. I'll put it below...

I never was able to play much Mechwarrior, and no Battletech at all as a kid. My father played it, and I loved watching. He did really well.. And when I tired I got upset because it was hard. and I was also like 4 years old... so there's that. Well sure enough few things stuck in my head about the game. 1: it was hard. 2: there was a mech called The Raven. and 3: I wasn't good at it.

Sure enough, when I got home from a terrible deployment 2 decades later, was going through some tough times. and needed a good game to rack my mind on, I see this. and man. I thought. After a download and my first match, I thought again. I sucked. The first mech I dropped in was a Commando, and I couldn't do jack. but I saw I was earning C-Bills, and getting to buying my own mech. So I persisted. I bought one soon after, a Raven.... but... I sucked at it. just like before... I thought and I thought as I played and died.. Man.... there's no hope for me.... I blow at this. I tried some mediums, even a Dragon in the hay day... I still blew, even more with big mechs.\


but then.. I got smashed. I got bored. and I saw something. I saw a certain mech with a LOT of weapon hardpoints... It was the old Spider 5k. I bought it, and immediately got to work outfitting it. IO got it up to high speed, jump jets, 4 MGs and a LOT of ammo. this was back in the broken spider hitbox days, but, I found something after I bought this humble little spider (Pre-champion build). I found myself laughing, getting sneaky, helping, doing damage, getting kills even. Overally I found myself brawling MY WAY, in your face, making you flee for help and escaping before you get it. Harassing opponents into artillery striking themselves just hoping I take damage too.

I FOUND MYSELF A CHASSIS.


But...

Over the last year, My love for playing MWO has been literally running on the last GOOD light mechs they released. And it hurts. Because these clan lights are better, and completely trumping other lights by far (Ability to take more damage) and ultimately winning with 1 freaking chassis. IS mechs hold my all time favorite Raven, The Huginn... but, when I get serious, I have to use my Cheetahs... why? Because the benefit of clan lights outweigh all of my other sneaky lights.

I like ECM, I like Jump Jets. a slow light isnt my style.

BUT, upon seeing what quirks did for the Locust, it brought to light what would honestly be able to spring life into my light mechs that just sit in my bays.



I want quirks. real quirks. You give some fatass mechs a 50% RoF on machine guns, why does the 5k's RoF not have something just as sick? It has to do a heavy's job too with less armor. What made my Huginn so mean, was the quirks. it turned a Raven, a mech I wouldnt normally do well piloting into something more, with a strategy much like my 5k, run and gun, harass. BRING THE PAIN.


So why not actually give good quirks to some more of these light chassis? or maybe even release more lights with actual perks making them useable? I'm getting real sick of these heavy, medium, and assault mechs getting everything. My weight class has to get 4x as ballsy to do their job, dont make it thankless work.


Forgive me, this was kind of a Sh*tpost. just had to get my opinion out there and propose something. Id love to see some good quirks work around and make some of my mechs more fun. I shouldn't have to ton up because PGI worships a stupid meta. No one should.

[FupDup]

Because lights cost fewer space dollars and don't sell as well in MechPaks, so they aren't allowed to be as effective as the cash cow weight classes.

While it is still admittedly better here than any previous MW game, there is still a lot of work left to be done for class balance...

[Mcgral18]

Because Lights are destined to be shite, and be used for InfoTech, and Scouting



Meanwhile, my 100 ton Kodiak has longer ranged sensors and faster target acquisition, along with the weapons to be used at those ranges


Role Warfare, bro

[TercieI]

Lights aren't allowed to be good. Are you new here?

Sorry, sore subject.

[El Bandito]

Cause LCT-1V was clearly OP with its 50% quirks.

[Mr Pockets]

I've seen you, Terc. I know.


But here's the thing. If you are honestly having trouble with lights, it's just showing theyre either great at moving into your blind spots and dodging, finding your weakness and exploiting it, or you just honestly suck at aiming. I've met plenty of medium+ mech pilots that I have to keep an eye peeled for, many I have to change tactics for entirely. just like any mech pilot for big battles.


But, to forsake an entire class of mechs isnt the way. Just like with the Huginn, if they made light quirks better, more defining, more serious, they could sell more mechs. many cheaper so more broke pilots could afford it, maybe some get convinced to actually invest. it's something PGI honestly has not explored on its own here.


I wont stop piloting lights, but I'm going to try harder and harder to BREAK this little stigma of Lights cant do work. My "Scouts" hold targets and manage damage. why? because I focus on building them for that. If I can do that level of craftiness from the pilot seat, a developer worth their weight in C-Bills can do it for a chassis.

[Y E O N N E]

Muh LCT-1M and LCT-1E...

Q_Q

[Mole]

The real answer to your question is that the dumb fatty pilots can't stand it when something that weighs 80 tons less than them tears their face off so every time a light 'mech becomes combat viable they cry rivers at Russ and Paul claiming lights to be OP until they get nerfed. Again. And again. And again. As long as lights keep managing to kill lone assault 'mechs that think teamwork is for chumps lights will keep getting the hammer.

Edited by Mole, 25 September 2016 - 06:38 PM.

[Airu]

just a minute ago removed both legs from a lone gauss caring kdk-3 in my lct-1e, I can see the point above

Edited by Airu, 25 September 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

FupDup, on 25 September 2016 - 06:02 PM, said:

While it is still admittedly better here than any previous MW game, there is still a lot of work left to be done for class balance...

Understatement of the year award. As of MW4 the light and medium populations combined could be counted on one hand on any given day, heavily biased towards mediums. Total numbers, not percentages. And this in a game that supported 32-on-32 games on its best days. You could go whole weeks without seeing anything under 40 tons. Lights were just indescribably bad back in the days of FLD lasers, nerfgun small weapons, and sized hardpoints. Even respawning and Mercs' tonnage deficit score multipliers couldn't make them viable.

And everybody else so far is pretty much right on the money. There's less profit to be made off of lights, and bad heavy driving whales love to fill the seas with salty tears when lights are balanced properly, therefore lights mostly get dumped on. An occasional light like the Firestarter or Cheetah rises to the level of the larger 'Mechs, but it's usually to the detriment of every other light chassis, or because of a persistent bug in the game, or something else completely unintended that eventually gets taken away to restore the status quo. There is a large and vocal population of heavy and assault pilots who think that the combat effectiveness of a 'Mech should be in direct proportion to its tonnage, no exceptions, even for dedicated snipers and strikers like the Adder, Jenner, and Wolfhound which were entirely capable of one-shotting larger 'Mechs with their stock configs in TT.

It's always worst right after heavy and assault releases, though, especially if there's also an event on. I might be particularly irate because I also just came off a hiatus of several months, so I'm rusty as hell and haven't been able to turn a decent performance in with my lights since getting back. But... oh, I agree completely. Give all the lights quirks comparable to what every other weight class gets and let's see what happens then. Oh yes. They'll see. They'll all see.

*wanders off giggling creepily*

[Mystere]

Lights are not supposed to fight. Lights are not supposed to be tough. They're supposed to just scout. They're supposed to be cannon fodder. They should explode when you just look at them wrong. They're not meant to be anything but stat padding for the bit fat KDR-******. End. Of. Story.

<**** all the fattie lovers! **** all of them!>

Edited by Mystere, 25 September 2016 - 09:47 PM.

[Random Carnage]

Mole, on 25 September 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

The real answer to your question is that the dumb fatty pilots can't stand it when something that weighs 80 tons less than them tears their face off so every time a light 'mech becomes combat viable they cry rivers at Russ and Paul claiming lights to be OP until they get nerfed. Again. And again. And again. As long as lights keep managing to kill lone assault 'mechs that think teamwork is for chumps lights will keep getting the hammer.

Oh, ok - I'm up for this. Let the burn intensify...

Of course the light apologists have no issue with a mech of 80 tonnes less being able to tear the face off an assault. I have no problem with lights using mobility to chip away and fade, but when they can just shred armor, that's an issue. When the same light pilots start calling for 60 degree twist restrictions for fatties in addition to their own already drag bike acceleration capabilities, it's hard to take them seriously.
By teamwork, I'm assuming that Mole means all the fast mechs pissing off and leaving the assaults to keep up as best as they're able. How often do you stay with the assaults Mole, or does that not count?
If lights didn't work, at some level - you wouldn't be playing them. If you want to stand in front of an assault, you get what's coming. If you can't take out an assaults back in short order in damn near any light, that's on you, not the class.

Go nuts ladies, looking forward to it.

[DovisKhan]

Well, Clan Lights works just fine, can't say much for IS


I have no problems with my Jenner IIC, if you sneak up - 2 missile salvos for a medium, 3 for a heavy, 4 for an assault


Maulers and Direvolves are my favorite prey



Kit Fox also works perfect, you just stick to your assaults and provide ECM/3xAMS, and you 3 lasers + 4 MGs provide surprisingly respectable numbers in damage as well, you just shoot whatever the assault is shooting and they will likely ignore you, cause the fire from an assault pains them much more

[JediPanther]

I have no problem using IS lights and doing damage and kills. You need to use lights speed advantage for hit and run tactics. All lights suffer from one major weakness and that is upon loosing a leg their speed drops to 40kph. Go Cobra-Ki on enemy lights. for every thing stab them in the back. As for your love of ecm and jumpjets not mechs have it with speed. Maybe try the griffin as one has both ecm and jump jets.

Experiment for with the ravens and run builds. Keep mixing lasers and srm/lrm combos on them. Huggin still wrecks with the srm 4 load out. Chain fire them and use the srm cool down and range mods. Go BFG with the 4x raven with an AC 20 build. Try # med pulse and Narc on the 3L.

If you're constantly being shot at learn to increase your awareness of the environment. Equip beagle active probe,adv sensor range and seismic modules to give you more sensor range and faster target info. Let other pilots fight enemy mechs you have trouble with by luring them to your team's meds and heavies.

Get off the ecm crutch. Die a lot in other lights. Keep playing non ecm lights. You'll improve over time learning a lot of things common to light pilots who don't depend on ecm for every thing. Dying to lrms? Use the terrain's cover such as upward or downward slops,rocks,buildings etc. Equip ams and ams ammo. find out why you suck in lights by making a list of how you died and work on dying less from it.

I die a lot when i play when I'm playing when i tired by making new player mistakes. i'll charge around a corner of something and eat ac 40s with time in match at under four minutes. I might get tunnel vision at first contact fighting the enemy scout I just found. I don't realize i'm chasing it back to his eleven other waiting buddies and die.

It could be you're just not a light pilot person. I know I think i'm rambo in an atlas but game score at end of match proves other wise. It's rare for me to do 200 or more in the atlas. I just suck at them because they are too dam slow for my type of play style. I'll play any weight class except assault because i've figured out i suck with them for a lot of reasons and leave it up to a better assault pilot to play one while I play mechs I have learned to do good in.

Don't focus a lot of just the damage/kills at end of matches. Make it a personal goal of doing more kill assists,spotting bonuses, counter ecm bonus,narcs,tag damage etc. Make it a goal to do better in each match to your own set goal.

[Random Carnage]

DovisKhan, on 25 September 2016 - 10:17 PM, said:

Well, Clan Lights works just fine, can't say much for IS

I have no problems with my Jenner IIC, if you sneak up - 2 missile salvos for a medium, 3 for a heavy, 4 for an assault

Maulers and Direvolves are my favorite prey

Kit Fox also works perfect, you just stick to your assaults and provide ECM/3xAMS, and you 3 lasers + 4 MGs provide surprisingly respectable numbers in damage as well, you just shoot whatever the assault is shooting and they will likely ignore you, cause the fire from an assault pains them much more

And this is why an assault should switch fire to a light wingman to obliterate the excess incoming dps quickly rather than fixate on the biggest target. Doing so is likely to twist away some of the red fatties fire anyway while at the same time eliminating the smaller mech. If you get tunnel vision on the red heavy, you're not likely to kill either of them given the likely damage imbalance 2 v 1.

[Mole]

Random Carnage, on 25 September 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:

Oh, ok - I'm up for this. Let the burn intensify...

Of course the light apologists have no issue with a mech of 80 tonnes less being able to tear the face off an assault. I have no problem with lights using mobility to chip away and fade, but when they can just shred armor, that's an issue. When the same light pilots start calling for 60 degree twist restrictions for fatties in addition to their own already drag bike acceleration capabilities, it's hard to take them seriously.
By teamwork, I'm assuming that Mole means all the fast mechs pissing off and leaving the assaults to keep up as best as they're able. How often do you stay with the assaults Mole, or does that not count?
If lights didn't work, at some level - you wouldn't be playing them. If you want to stand in front of an assault, you get what's coming. If you can't take out an assaults back in short order in damn near any light, that's on you, not the class.

Go nuts ladies, looking forward to it.

I didn't say lights are broken, man. I'm doing fine in mine. But it's pretty much a fact that PGI enjoys swinging the nerf bat at the class because of whiny assault and heavy pilots. Generally I don't even engage assault 'mechs if they've spotted me. I sneak around and rip out their backs before they know what's happened. If I don't believe I can drop them before they realize what has happened, I sit behind them quietly and wait for them to take some fire from the front before I hit them in the back to mask the damage to reduce the chance that they will realize I've crawled up their butt and turn around. Generally, during the initial phase of the match, I move immediately toward the assault lance. The assault lance is where our firepower and armor is, and I don't want any lights sneaking in and back coring our assaults like I do when I find a lonely assault. If the enemy light pilot is smart when he realizes the assaults are being escorted by another light they will disengage. If they are dumb, they will engage anyway and get killed. Once the fight is well underway I will scan the battlefield for targets of opportunity. If I can't find any, I stay stuck in with my team and engage when one of my heavier teammates does, where they are the ones taking fire and I am allowed to fire unopposed until attention finally shifts to me, at which point I fade away and rejoin my team. Now all this being said, I pilot assaults too. I pilot an Atlas, a Kodiak, a Mauler, a Warhawk, a Victor, a Gargoyle, and an Awesome. Only time I get left behind is when I am derping around alt-tabbed at the start of the match. Otherwise, I kick it to full throttle as soon as the match starts, pay close attention to the minimap, and generally predict with what path I need to take to properly link up with my team without making them have to wait for me. I've only gotten backstabbed by lights once or twice in my Awesome when I was sniping with PPCs instead of paying attention to my surroundings. But that hasn't happened since I got a seismic sensor module. So far as I can tell, the only assault that gets killed by a light 'mech is one that has poor situational awareness. That is a pilot error, not a team error. There is a faction of people out there that legitimately believe that a light should not be able to kill an assault, period. Those people are dumb.

Edited by Mole, 25 September 2016 - 10:42 PM.

[DovisKhan]

Random Carnage, on 25 September 2016 - 10:29 PM, said:

And this is why an assault should switch fire to a light wingman to obliterate the excess incoming dps quickly rather than fixate on the biggest target. Doing so is likely to twist away some of the red fatties fire anyway while at the same time eliminating the smaller mech. If you get tunnel vision on the red heavy, you're not likely to kill either of them given the likely damage imbalance 2 v 1.

very true

[William Mountbank]

Look guys, putting a torso twist speed quirk on the STD60 engine would literally and metaphysically break this game, so don't mention it or even think it unless you want pugservers full of stock urbanmechs...

[Pjwned]

Without going into too much detail right away, there are 2 main problems.

1) Quirks are decent in theory but in practice they are trash, and unfortunately you tend to see a lot more quirks on anything 40 tons & above lately; this needs to be fixed by erasing quirks on a lot more mechs rather than quirking up lights again.

2) There are a number of issues that impact light mechs more than anything else, but the big one is lightweight weaponry getting the shaft; medium & small lasers generate more heat than they're supposed to and SRMs (streaks included) as well as machine guns don't do enough damage. There are other issues too but I don't want to write up too much right now.

A lot of it is really just that overall balance is complete garbage and lights in particular get the shaft because of it.

[Bud Crue]

See all of the above.

Now consider: heavy drivers will point to the Panther and say it is the most heavily quirked mech in the game and you want more quirks to make it playable?

YES!!!!!!