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Look Down! The Eternal Struggle


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#21 Hunka Junk

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 09:39 AM

View PostPeter2k, on 29 September 2016 - 03:16 AM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't I seen "lore" artwork and read references about mechs climbing, crouching and such?


It'd be pretty sweet if my Grasshopper could do the splits and ball punch like Johnny Cage.

#22 InspectorG

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 10:35 AM

View PostrazenWing, on 28 September 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

...


In order for a mech to bend over to see its toes its hips would have to sit way far back. Likely not a problem for chicken walkers. Likely a problem for humanoids.

#23 razenWing

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 11:55 AM

View PostInspectorG, on 30 September 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:


In order for a mech to bend over to see its toes its hips would have to sit way far back. Likely not a problem for chicken walkers. Likely a problem for humanoids.


Yup, exactly like how I put it. Different looking robots do different things.

#24 FupDup

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 12:34 PM

If you're using an assault mech that puts all of its firepower in high-up mounts, then you're just going to have to accept that you have some sort of weakness. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

The light mech boogeyman died a long time ago, being weaker today than it has ever been.

#25 razenWing

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 12:46 PM

View PostFupDup, on 30 September 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

If you're using an assault mech that puts all of its firepower in high-up mounts, then you're just going to have to accept that you have some sort of weakness. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

The light mech boogeyman died a long time ago, being weaker today than it has ever been.


After ALL those convo, that's the conclusion you've reached?!?!?! My god, man... jeez...

(no wonder some people are voting for Trump out of their liking, not from hating Hillary...)

Edited by razenWing, 30 September 2016 - 12:47 PM.


#26 FupDup

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 01:54 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 30 September 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

After ALL those convo, that's the conclusion you've reached?!?!?! My god, man... jeez...

Here is a quote snippet from the OP:

Quote

Also, 6 srm6 jenner iic Alpha Strike is fairly indicative of you guys screwing up the whole "heat" and "uniqueness" factor. There's a reason why a 5.5 in Iphone is actually BETTER in battery life than a 4.5 inch older Iphone. Something that's HALF THE SIZE of a mech with double tonnage should NOT be able to perform to the same Alpha Strike without suffering some sort of catastrophic failure.

That sounds a lot like complaining about lights.


View PostrazenWing, on 30 September 2016 - 12:46 PM, said:

(no wonder some people are voting for Trump out of their liking, not from hating Hillary...)

I hate both of them.

#27 razenWing

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 02:05 PM

View PostFupDup, on 30 September 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

Here is a quote snippet from the OP:


That sounds a lot like complaining about lights.



I hate both of them.


Ok, assuming I don't quote any other subsequent conversation that enhanced our topics. I'm just going to highlight the portion that you quoted from my own post. Note the walls of text BEFORE and AFTER that.

O also, you should also look up and see what the word "tangent" means.

View PostrazenWing, on 28 September 2016 - 10:45 PM, said:

So apparently in 31st century, war machine of the "future" still has the same problem as our tanks. We can shoot down particularly well.

In a fight over a steeper angle, unlike the conventional wisdom to take the high ground, if you have direct LoS weapon, you are very boned.

(ps you guys have GOT to fix "target slighted," it's like free radar tracking for 3 seconds after losing LoS)

Well, you see, that shouldn't be. By the design of gyros, you don't suffer the same penalty as a 70 ton flatbed. Do you have trouble looking at your toe? In fact, if you look straight down, you can probably see your heel as well.

And this is where another aspect of the game where designers failed to make each mech unique beyond the obvious high mount locations, cause most maps you guys came up with, are quite 3 dimensional in nature.

Some mechs with balance problem and prefer horizontal fight.
Some mechs with high mounts prefer hill peak.
Some mechs are better at anti air (shoot up)
Some mechs are designed to have superior shoot down performance

Instantly, you've just made your mechs more variable and more unique. Think of the EBJ for example, there's a reason why a chicken-leg gyros are great, not because they look better, but they can balance looking down without tipping itself over. So why does it have the same limitation as a Hellbringer for example? They SHOULD not have the same y-axis based on design alone.

For example, humanoids are designed more for straight on combat with multiple weapon surfaces not suffering angular problem and can pinpoint. That's their strength to fight horizontal. And it makes sense too that you can instantly torso twist 180 degrees and make your profile 66% smaller.

So then there should be an advantage to chicken walkers are well. Because if we accept that there are no concept behind each mechs and each mech is just purely cosmetic, then honestly, there's no point buying these different mechs. They are the same core design with different firing geometry (and honestly, the reason why people even have mech tiers in terms of usefulness... because you failed to make them unique)

Remember I post this?

http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

These are all suggestions that are designed to help you make a pitch to customers.

"Hey, check out our game, we offered these varieties. It's definitely worth it to spend money on different designs because they all excel at different capabilities and handle drastically different."

Stalkers should be the most lethal "perch" mech in the game. But instead, you have an oxide run underneath it, and good game, next que. This shouldn't be right.

------------------
Tangent:

Don't give universal meters in terms of capabilities. Wolfhound is called wolfhound because it can run, not because of its engine size... which is replicate-able by EVERY OTHER mech of the 35 ton class

Actually give your mechs quirk that live up to their lore? Why is Ebon Jaguar more known as the Cauldron Born? Because it can take punishment like crazy! Well, with 74 points of armor and a big @ss hit-box, I don't feel very much like any immortal Irish legend.

My point is, stop doing balance like ghost heat twinkling and/or quirk adjustment. If you can find a way to find a purpose for ALL your mechs, build enough environment so that they can all find their niche, life will find a way.

There shouldn't be any meta. There should be situation. Unfortunately, you guys somehow only see meta shuffling as the solution to fix the game, which frankly, confuse the crap out of me.

Also, 6 srm6 jenner iic Alpha Strike is fairly indicative of you guys screwing up the whole "heat" and "uniqueness" factor. There's a reason why a 5.5 in Iphone is actually BETTER in battery life than a 4.5 inch older Iphone. Something that's HALF THE SIZE of a mech with double tonnage should NOT be able to perform to the same Alpha Strike without suffering some sort of catastrophic failure.

Anyways, food for thought. (I wish video games developers can be up for vote every 2 years too. If you guys conduct an online poll, heck, make it name required, and ask if your user base is generally pleased with your performance, do you think you will get a flying color? Maybe that's an indication that you guys need to start thinking outside of your comfort zone. When it comes down to it, we just want a fun experience to escape reality for a few hours a day. Shouldn't have to constantly be your guinea pig of failed experiment.)

PS 2. I understand enemies not having doritos until their target info are confirmed. That makes sense to me. But why the hell does your OWN team not able to share that info? Also, it's complete bull flop of your reasoning of providing weight class info. You want weight class info on doritos? Opague dorito, semi-translucent dark dorito, semi-transluent light dorito, and finally, open colorless dorito.

There, I just made an entire info scheme much more clear than horizontal vs vertical line on a stupid square. Cause you know, when spinning and your map squares trying to reposition itself as diamonds, it's much more clear to try to distinguish between a vertical and horizontal lines that have no rational meanings to indicate why one should be what it is. (sarcasm)

Edited by razenWing, 30 September 2016 - 02:12 PM.


#28 LordNothing

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 02:12 PM

computer technology in the battletech universe is level 1985. hell its 1955 if you look at the weight of some of the clan targeting computers.

#29 razenWing

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 02:14 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 30 September 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

computer technology in the battletech universe is level 1985. hell its 1955 if you look at the weight of some of the clan targeting computers.


Actually, built in sensor integration with complex weapon trajectory calculation using... maybe quantum computing. 1 ton seems about right.

#30 LordNothing

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 02:32 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 30 September 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:


Actually, built in sensor integration with complex weapon trajectory calculation using... maybe quantum computing. 1 ton seems about right.


my ti82 can do that calculation. ballistic calculations arent that difficult.

sure quantum computing gets back to the old school mainframe format, because of the cryogenic requirements mostly (the actual apparatus that contains the qbits is quite small). there is also the radhard aspect. since mechs need to operate in some rather harsh environments (vitric for example would be a radioactive hotbed with that blue supergiant that close to it). this severely limits your process size to something reminiscent of early 32 bit machines. every space computer system is 10 years obsolete, because thats how long it takes to make the part radhard, and to certify it as such. then there are russian fighter jets that still use tubes. on the memory side you are pretty much forced to use sram or low process size dram (probibly not ddr), but it could be something really old skool like core memory. this means something we use like 8 gigs is gonna be huge.

storage technology seems to be pretty advanced in lore. the helm memory core (pretty much a star league wikipedia) was backed up to what was discribed mostly as a hand held cartridge of sorts, which is on par with a modern-ish tape backup drive, or it could be some kind of holographic tech or some kind of super dense ssd.

#31 Aggravated Assault Mech

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 02:34 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 30 September 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:


Actually, built in sensor integration with complex weapon trajectory calculation using... maybe quantum computing. 1 ton seems about right.


Great joke.

#32 razenWing

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Posted 30 September 2016 - 09:13 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 30 September 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:


my ti82 can do that calculation. ballistic calculations arent that difficult.

sure quantum computing gets back to the old school mainframe format, because of the cryogenic requirements mostly (the actual apparatus that contains the qbits is quite small). there is also the radhard aspect. since mechs need to operate in some rather harsh environments (vitric for example would be a radioactive hotbed with that blue supergiant that close to it). this severely limits your process size to something reminiscent of early 32 bit machines. every space computer system is 10 years obsolete, because thats how long it takes to make the part radhard, and to certify it as such. then there are russian fighter jets that still use tubes. on the memory side you are pretty much forced to use sram or low process size dram (probibly not ddr), but it could be something really old skool like core memory. this means something we use like 8 gigs is gonna be huge.

storage technology seems to be pretty advanced in lore. the helm memory core (pretty much a star league wikipedia) was backed up to what was discribed mostly as a hand held cartridge of sorts, which is on par with a modern-ish tape backup drive, or it could be some kind of holographic tech or some kind of super dense ssd.


I like to point out that our Naval Destroyers do not run on Ti-82. Just saying...

#33 LordNothing

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Posted 01 October 2016 - 12:29 AM

View PostrazenWing, on 30 September 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:


I like to point out that our Naval Destroyers do not run on Ti-82. Just saying...


of course not, but i only meant to say the math is not hard. the apollo guidence computer for example could execute one page of code every millisecond could do it with enough accuracy for space navigation, much less than what you need to hit a mech with a lrm at 900 meters. the ti82 is a hotrod in comparison.

i also doubt that those same computers on the destroyer weigh in at a ton or more. maybe if you account for shielding, and the equipment racks, and the fact that you likely have redundant backups throughout the ship as well might put you into hundreds of pounds territory.

and frankly if they had better computers, manual targeting would not even be a thing. you already have actuators and sensors, throw on a software pid controller and your gun could track a cockpit or any other damaged section with impunity. with the lostech aspects of lore, i like to think that their computers are actually worse off than ours.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 October 2016 - 12:29 AM.






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