326 replies to this topic

[D V Devnull]

mikerso, on 14 October 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

This is the biggest thing I disagree with in FP and QP. And I have said it before. Considering yourself to be on a team with 11 idiots only makes you idiot #12. Assuming that 90% of your team is playing selfishly is also a selfish opinion. Assuming that all other players play bad, because they don't play how you want them to play is selfish.

Once you are in a match with 12 pugs, what the community sees as good game play pretty much goes out the window. Because you have 12 opinions of what should be done. If you can't help the team, then do your best to have fun. And contrary to popular belief winning is not always the same as fun.

Even though I do disagree with you and Dee Eight, still glad to have you guys as in game friends.

As I've said at the end of many of my pug drop commands in faction play, "Win or lose, we gave em hell and had fun doing it!"

Edit to add this: if you want a team that is coordinated get with a unit or some buddies. A coordinated 12 man can do wonders, but be prepared for the rebuttal if you do not do what the collective whole deems correct. Otherwise let's go kill with skittles.

Okay, I made one serious error in my last post. I don't consider people to be idiots at the start of the match... that indeed would have made me idiot #12. Everyone starts at flat even in my mind. It's what they do during the match that gets them considered one way or the other. When I do call them idiots, it's only after the match is over, only because they didn't work together, got mowed over, and (even though I've already taken some serious damage sometime during the match) effectively left me to get turned into a "Clubbed Baby Seal" as well. I basically have to be slapped in the face by my own team, in effect, to end up considering them idiots.

For me, fun includes not dying more often than I can kill. Sadly, I think I've plateaued in that department, and started slipping downhill again. And yes, I've already been trying to find people to group up with when I safely can. Unfortunately that can only get a small group of people just so far, before PGI's MatchMaker catches up and starts putting us in rather intentionally bad situations. You can imagine where my anger starts getting directed at that point, as I find myself falling right back into hell due to an inability to get myself to stop when I feel like I'm being wrongfully bashed.

BTW, I'm also glad to have you as a friend in-game, even though I get into occasional arguments with you on the forums.

~D. V. "Now I'm wondering if I'm looking at Self-Destructing due to MWO..." Devnull

[MovinTarget]

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

Okay, I made one serious error in my last post. I don't consider people to be idiots at the start of the match... that indeed would have made me idiot #12. Everyone starts at flat even in my mind. It's what they do during the match that gets them considered one way or the other. When I do call them idiots, it's only after the match is over, only because they didn't work together, got mowed over, and (even though I've already taken some serious damage sometime during the match) effectively left me to get turned into a "Clubbed Baby Seal" as well. I basically have to be slapped in the face by my own team, in effect, to end up considering them idiots.

For me, fun includes not dying more often than I can kill. Sadly, I think I've plateaued in that department, and started slipping downhill again. And yes, I've already been trying to find people to group up with when I safely can. Unfortunately that can only get a small group of people just so far, before PGI's MatchMaker catches up and starts putting us in rather intentionally bad situations. You can imagine where my anger starts getting directed at that point, as I find myself falling right back into hell due to an inability to get myself to stop when I feel like I'm being wrongfully bashed.

BTW, I'm also glad to have you as a friend in-game, even though I get into occasional arguments with you on the forums.

~D. V. "Now I'm wondering if I'm looking at Self-Destructing due to MWO..." Devnull

I totally get that. Part of the reason I prefer FP over QP is that I can at least control a couple more variables, like tailoring my deck to the situation (hot/cold, brawl/range, etc)...

One of the reasons I like the unit I'm in now is that we actively try to keep each other from taking the game so seriously. We shoot each other in the back/legs on occasion, if only to stop the "Okay who shot me in the back?" drama that happens in some games.

Look, we are all supposedly piloting multi-tonned monstrosities and trying to shoot around each other and otherwise avoid getting stuck on small random debris... Stuff happens. Do your best, whether its leading or following. And if you still don't get the results you want...









Buy another mech pack!

[Wintersdark]

MovinTarget, on 14 October 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Even with skittles you can have a rousing good game! If people communicate and are willing to possibly sacrifice some of their personal agenda, great. Ya just can't expect everyone to "buy in"...

I have found myself many a time saying to myself, "You go to war with the army you've got."


...and I bet many a time someone has thought the same when watching me play lol...

yup.

I should clarify; I say you should never expect your teammates to help you or act smart, but that advice is like the classic road advice: assume everyone is a moron just itching for a chance to do something stupid.

Not that you should be paranoid or hate filled, but just plan your own actions to not rely on teammates unless you've some reason to expect them to support you be it knowledge of the player, communication, or what have you.

So, taking a lurming boat? Expect nobody to get/hold locks, and go into a match with the expectation that you'll ha e to get your own locks. If others provide them, awesome! But don't expect it.

Pushing? Make sure you've communicated it - clearly - and that there's some indication people will follow you. Don't just charge off when you see a good opportunity because others may not see it,may be busy, or just think it's a bad idea (maybe it is, maybe they know of other mechs around a corner you don't).

I see all too often a guy go do something, then scream about how he had no support... I'd have helped him, if I had any idea of where he was or what he was doing. But I didn't. And I'll ALWAYS work with a team that has a plan - even a bad one, as any organization is better than no organization. But you can't just assume people will do *anything*

So yeah, it's not that I mean you should literally assume they are idiots, but just that they'll tend to be fairly unpredictable because they're different people working from a different battlefield perspective. They'll often do stuff that seems idiotic to you, but may not actually be from their perspective.

It's just easier to say, assume they're all idiots and do your best to support them, never expect them to support you. Be part of the solution.

[Dee Eight]

D V Devnull, on 14 October 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

Adding to what Dee Eight has said, there is also another nasty problem. That problem is a whole team, whom you tell that they're being backflanked by the enemy, but they don't listen. They're so mentally stuck on 'NASCAR' that they miss the enemy team coming up from behind, and the person who's trying to warn them of impending doom/failure/etc. gets killed after doing less than 50 damage. And yes, that happened to me while I was piloting a Dire Wolf, trying to work on my Assault KMDD, but understanding that keeping the team alive comes first, and trying to watch out for enemy activity. There is literally nothing you can do when you try to help coordinate a team, but the team won't listen anyway because they're stuck on their own damned awful mental agenda. It's literally a case where either Dee Eight or myself happen to be doing everything right, but nothing good comes of it because of 11 other idiots who don't think they're gonna listen. So, mikerso, please don't assume that there is always something that someone can do, when they're already doing all they can. When a Pilot is already doing all they can but nobody's listening, there's nothing more to learn from, especially when their Max Speed is already only a meager 48.6 Kph.

Long and short of it... How would you learn anyway, when you're dead first from a backflank, and nobody came to help when you called to the team at the first sign of danger? Or even when you repeatedly try to alert them, all while trying to defend yourself, because you don't have the speed to run away?

I've said repeatedly, in games, and on the forums, I will NOT play beneath my knowledge/ability. That knowledge includes KNOWING that there's really only two tactics for most players in quick play games. Race to the center of the map, or NASCAR the map, and nascaring almost always goes like american oval tracks, where all the drivers turn to the left and race around counter clockwise. On some maps, this makes little difference if both teams end up doing it other than they swap ends of the map before any engagement occurs and then almost universally its a push towards some center area once again.

It also doesn't matter if the charlie lances of one team dropped facing an easier nascar terrain, such as on canyons, where the charlie lances drop on the river bed side where all the mining equipment is. So lets call it the blue team which has their charlie lance to the left end (tail of a nascar) around B4 tends to push towards the center in those cases and the other red team which would have charlie leading a nascar started from F4 of the river, then proceeds to do exactly that. The correct counter for the blue team would actually be to move to C3/C4 with their bravo and charlie lances, putting the direct fire mechs on the top ridge of the canyon behind the little outcrops and terrain like the radio tower, and the LRM mechs standing behind them sufficiently far as to clear friendlies and terrain to provide proper indirect fire support. Any actual scouting capable members of Alpha lance should then flank nascar fashion to spot/lock targets for the indirect LRMs AND for the direct fire members on the ridges to know which way to point their ballistic and energy weapons towards. And any ECM units of Bravo & charlie, such as Cata 0XPs, Shadow Cats and Hellbringers.... should remain near their lance mates at least until a good lead on kills has been established.

If that tactic were used... the blue team would win more games overall, and there's more actual KMDDs to be achieved during a winning game (a total of 12 in fact) than in a losing game. When I drop as part of Alpha on the red team end, I know that the blue alpha is likely to nascar around, and I still even solo will go to intercept them, because its the TEAM player thing to do. Knowing how the enemy is likely to behave, and then try and stop/delay them so my entire team doesn't end up backshot. At which time I become as Devnull put it, the guy who got 50 damage trying to protect the idiots who aren't listening to VOIP warnings or even noticing locked targets appearing on their hud or minimap unless it happens to be in front of them. But there's only SO much that one player can achieve against a full lance, and its the fact that more often than not, I'm the one having to carry most of the rest of the team as far as TEAM WIN being the real end goal, especially during this particular event, or really any event where the goals are oriented around KMDDs.

Note...the other way to position LRM mechs when direct fire is on the high ground like canyons map, is to have them slightly ahead and below backed against a canyon wall. The canyons are wide enough that torso LRMs should be able to clear the opposite canyon wall and then to get to those LRM shooters, their other mechs need to race into exposure to the direct fire mechs behind them.

Edited by Dee Eight, 14 October 2016 - 09:32 PM.

[Tsar Bomba]

PUG Mantra: Doing something stupid with the team is better than doing something smart by yourself.

[mikerso]

Not to interrupt our current conversation, but just wanted to say thanks to whoever thought up this event at PGI. It has been a lot of fun. In earning the rewards I have also kitted out 12 2c mechs, and they are all almost mastered. Thanks again.

[CyanEyd]

Quote

Appogee, on 29 September 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

I am up for this Challenge.

Light KMDs might be tough. What would be the most optimal Mech to get Light KMDs with?

I don't own too many light 'mechs, but I have not yet missed a KMDD in this challenge with my mastered Wolfhound. One ER large laser and four mediums does the trick for me, although I DO need to carry 2 cool shots with me. No jump jets, but as long as you keep moving, you've got a chance.

[CyanEyd]

mikerso, on 15 October 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Not to interrupt our current conversation, but just wanted to say thanks to whoever thought up this event at PGI. It has been a lot of fun. In earning the rewards I have also kitted out 12 2c mechs, and they are all almost mastered. Thanks again.

Agreed...I've had a lot of really enjoyable matches during this event, and during the meanwhilst leveled up a couple of my 'mechs. Looking forward to all the loot coming my way too. Man next Tuesday is gonna be like BattleMech Christmas! Will have enough MC to buy that Grey Death I've been wanting. Thanks PGI

[D V Devnull]

mikerso, on 15 October 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Not to interrupt our current conversation

Trust me, it needed to be interrupted. It was getting too depressing.

~D. V. "No, really." Devnull

[ulrin]

Hi all,

Read multiples troubles,
find always same solution,
For playing with good players, for KMDD,
For the mankind's glory,

TAKE AN URBIE !!

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

PGI, can we have a little something of a reward for completing all the challenges?

Would be certainly the cherry on the top

Overall, really enjoyed this event. It didn't cause much anger with the wife so it's very much achievable. Look forward to the usual Mech launch event next I guess.

p.s.
As Tsar Bomber said, this is completely correct. With lights I love going round the whole map and causing a fuss. When it goes bad, I might kill 1 person by catching em off guard. When it's good, I can kill a few without the mass noticing. Last time I did this we still lost badly and I was told I didnt do well enough (before people saw the scores). 3 kills was good but not good enough. I wonder if I had stuck with the main crowd, I could have drawn fire, help core mechs for people to kill etc.

[D V Devnull]

ulrin, on 16 October 2016 - 12:08 AM, said:

Hi all,

Read multiples troubles,
find always same solution,
For playing with good players, for KMDD,
For the mankind's glory,

TAKE AN URBIE !!

To hell with the UrbanMech... it can't even use an ECM.

~D. V. "I have to disagree." Devnull

[Willothius]

D V Devnull, on 16 October 2016 - 01:38 AM, said:

To hell with the UrbanMech...

Oh poor old DV, I have rarely met a more irrational, selfentitled and incoherent forum-rambler than you, and I know your posts are usually to be taken with a few pinches snowshovels of salt, but EVEN FOR YOUR standards this is crossing the line!

~W.Z. "Seriously, don't cross that f#ckin' line Devy!" Willothius

[cepera]

I see on the page http://mwomercs.com/...201610playdaily - HTTP Error 404

wtf?

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Same. Cannot see tournaments page.

[MovinTarget]

Seems to be fine off the front page... i didn't click the above link though, dunno if it routes differently...

[General Solo]

Dee Eight, on 14 October 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

I've said repeatedly, in games, and on the forums, I will NOT play beneath my knowledge/ability. That knowledge includes KNOWING that there's really only two tactics for most players in quick play games. Race to the center of the map, or NASCAR the map, and nascaring almost always goes like american oval tracks, where all the drivers turn to the left and race around counter clockwise.................................

Sometimes they even do both, go to the centre and then NASCAR, or worse NASCAR and then go to the centre, occasionally they throw in a push or a flank, trade for profit, stuff like dat.

Thanks for the Stien PGI and for making me get outta bed to do KMDD stuff.
Like Thanks
u hear me
THANKS

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 16 October 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

MovinTarget, on 16 October 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

Seems to be fine off the front page... i didn't click the above link though, dunno if it routes differently...

They fixed it quickly. Forgot to post again after I found that.

[mikerso]

Last day gotta be 100%

[MovinTarget]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand done... Light KMDDs were the most challenging in general, I had to try a variety of mechs to get it each day...

Today it was a streak24 Adder, people chose TT Domination and I lost a leg in the lava below center... People kept falling down, I kept killing them (range mod for Streak6 FTW) it was pretty funny getting 3 kills in a one legged adder...

I only missed 3 KMDDs on the first day due to wife aggro... after that I equipped an ECM so that she wouldn't notice me playing for the next 16 days!

Edited by MovinTarget, 16 October 2016 - 05:47 PM.