90 replies to this topic

[Yellonet]

And no, OP isn't the same as good or best.

Overpowered means that it overall is better than it should be when compared to comparable mechs (class/weight)


1. Arctic Cheetah.

Say what you will, the ACH is still the best light, while not as hard to kill as it once was, it can still be a handful.
It has great hitboxes, good speed, good jump capability and a good alpha. As if that wasn't enough it also comes with CXL and ECM making it the best light by a good margin.
Basically it is OP because there is nothing else that can match it, some mechs can match its firepower, other it's manoeuvrability, but there is nothing else as complete. A light that outclasses other lights and that many times give mediums a run for their money = OP.

2. Locust.

Yeah, you read right. The Locust is OP, not because it's the best light, but because it can often pull way more weight than it should be able to given it's low amount of armour.
Sure, if it gets a good hit it can be taken out in one shot, but due to the nature of the game, lag and so on, getting that shot in can sometimes be very difficult.
It's small size coupled with it's incredible acceleration (something like 10 G acceleration, LOL?) and speed can make it a very difficult enemy.
Basically, what makes it OP is that it has too high acceleration, and this in combination with lag and it's small size as well as it's good alpha (1E version) makes the Locust package better than most lights, certainly better than it should be when compared to other lights.

3. Warhammer

Same again, one of the best heavies right now, and OP simply because it's overall and combined abilities adds up to more than perhaps all other heavies.
Great alpha. Good speed and manoeuvrability and very good survivability (it's not rare to see warhammers survive good hits even after being stripped of armour).
Much better package than most other heavies and pulling quite a lot more than just its 70 tonnes = OP.

[Spheroid]

I am relieved to see the Kodiak is not OP. I was briefly worried.

[El Bandito]

No Spider-5K? Bad list.

Spheroid, on 16 October 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

I am relieved to see the Kodiak is not OP. I was briefly worried.

According to OP's logic, by all means KDK-3 is OP.

Yellonet, on 16 October 2016 - 10:06 AM, said:

Overpowered means that it overall is better than it should be when compared to comparable mechs (class/weight)

Edited by El Bandito, 16 October 2016 - 10:14 AM.

[Bombast]

An OP list without the Urbanmech on it isn't an OP list at all.

Besides that, kind of a short list of mechs there. 2/3s of it are light (Which kind of makes it sound more like a 'Mechs I Can't Deal With' list), and the Warhammer... do people really think the Warhammer is OP? I'm not a great player, and I'm removed from the 'meta,' so maybe I'm missing something, but I've never ran into a Warhammer and thought 'Oh crap, not this again.' Just seems like a nice heavy to me.

[Yellonet]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

No Spider-5K? Bad list.



According to OP's logic, by all means KDK-3 is OP.

Yeah, KDK-3 is OP, but IMO not as much as those mechs on my list. Primarily because it doesn't feel too much compared to other classes, and I feel it's sometimes more a case of other assaults being underpowered than the KDK being OP.

[martian]

I have never felt the Warhammer to be OP.

Sure, it's a good 'Mech, solid one (depending on exact build and weapons), but not so gamebreaking to deserve the "OP" designation.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yellonet, on 16 October 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Yeah, KDK-3 is OP, but IMO not as much as those mechs on my list. Primarily because it doesn't feel too much compared to other classes, and I feel it's sometimes more a case of other assaults being underpowered than the KDK being OP.

So you'd say a Locust is more powerful than a Kodiak?

How and why?

What lead you to come up with this incorrect opinion?

[Yellonet]

Bombast, on 16 October 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

An OP list without the Urbanmech on it isn't an OP list at all.

Besides that, kind of a short list of mechs there. 2/3s of it are light (Which kind of makes it sound more like a 'Mechs I Can't Deal With' list), and the Warhammer... do people really think the Warhammer is OP? I'm not a great player, and I'm removed from the 'meta,' so maybe I'm missing something, but I've never ran into a Warhammer and thought 'Oh crap, not this again.' Just seems like a nice heavy to me.

Yeah, it's a short list, but it's only my top 3, not all mechs I think are OP.
And regarding "mechs I can't deal with", yes, that's partly true, but it would be true for most players. These mechs are very common in matches because they are good, and they are good partly because the enemy find them difficult to deal with.

Dakota1000, on 16 October 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

So you'd say a Locust is more powerful than a Kodiak?

How and why?

What lead you to come up with this incorrect opinion?

It's because of comments like this I wrote the very first part of my post.
Unfortunately one can't even count with someone reading even that far before posting.

Also, "incorrect opinion".... lol?

Edited by Yellonet, 16 October 2016 - 10:26 AM.

[RestosIII]

"Locust OP"

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Yellonet, on 16 October 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

It's because of comments like this I wrote the very first part of my post.
Unfortunately one can't even count with someone reading even that far before posting.

Also, "incorrect opinion".... lol?

I stand by the idea that opinions can be incorrect. Opinions are conclusions people come up with based on their views and biases, people can come up with incorrect conclusions when compared to actual facts.

Locust is a oneshotable mech, has extremely low armor and firepower. Its an entirely useless mech in comp play because they just instantly die to the dual gauss people carry. Meanwhile Kodiak is a 100 ton heavily armored behemoth with mounts above the cockpit, the ability to bring 4 heavy ballistics with more than adequate ammo, move at nearly 70kph, shield arm, and even has a few structure quirks on top of that just to rub it in.

If Locust is OP and should be brought down to the level of other lights, you're essentially saying lights shouldn't be able to manage 300 damage even with the best of players behind the wheels.

[FupDup]

Your definition of "overpowered" is a really flawed one.

[Barantor]

Dakota1000, on 16 October 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

I stand by the idea that opinions can be incorrect. Opinions are conclusions people come up with based on their views and biases, people can come up with incorrect conclusions when compared to actual facts.

Locust is a oneshotable mech, has extremely low armor and firepower. Its an entirely useless mech in comp play because they just instantly die to the dual gauss people carry. Meanwhile Kodiak is a 100 ton heavily armored behemoth with mounts above the cockpit, the ability to bring 4 heavy ballistics with more than adequate ammo, move at nearly 70kph, shield arm, and even has a few structure quirks on top of that just to rub it in.

If Locust is OP and should be brought down to the level of other lights, you're essentially saying lights shouldn't be able to manage 300 damage even with the best of players behind the wheels.

So now you are adding extra constraints to the evaluation by the OP and calling his observations incorrect. You added "comp scene" as a constraint.

OP also didn't say anything in his original assessment about any assaults, yet you tagged on the Kodiak, adding in your own assessment (based on comp tier) as a reason why his is wrong.

I find it interesting that his opinion can be wrong when you add assessments of your own onto his that he hasn't said he is using.

It is better to say, "Add in these facts and make an analysis." Then say "My opinion is this based on my observations and data I have read/found/etc."

Ask an opinion you don't agree with to defend it, don't say it is incorrect when you don't have all the information on what they used to come to that opinion.

Edited by Barantor, 16 October 2016 - 10:48 AM.

[MadHornet]

Locust? Really? It dies in one alpha strike from almost anything. Another locust can oneshot a locust.

The only times a locust is often considered "OP" is when they go below someone's pitch range. Otherwise they die super easy.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Barantor, on 16 October 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

So now you are adding extra constraints to the evaluation by the OP and calling his observations incorrect. You added "comp scene" as a constraint.

OP also didn't say anything in his original assessment about any assaults, yet you tagged on the Kodiak, adding in your own assessment (based on comp tier) as a reason why his is wrong.

I find it interesting that his opinion can be wrong when you add assessments of your own onto his that he hasn't said he is using.

It is better to say, "Add in these facts and make an analysis." Then say "My opinion is this based on my observations and data I have read/found/etc."

Ask an opinion you don't agree with to defend it, don't say it is incorrect when you don't have all the information on what they used to come to that opinion.

Normally I would look into giving the OP a various set of facts, but in the case of the Locust being overpowered, so many people attempt to run for that line of thinking every other day of the week that its rather pointless to do anything other than tell them they're wrong anymore. Just take a look at all the other 100 "Locust OP" threads out there. Its played out too many times by now and I just come in to jump on the bandwagon of its not OP so that PGI doesn't just look into one of these one day and find no one disagreeing.

Basing observations on low tier rather than high and comp tier leads to imbalances that lead people to come up with opinions such as LRMs being overpowered, Lights being overpowered, gauss being the worst weapon, machine guns being overpowered, and an array of other horrifically skewed opinions that completely disagree with the statistics.

[Deathlike]

This thread... I don't even...

[Barantor]

Dakota1000, on 16 October 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

Basing observations on low tier rather than high and comp tier leads to imbalances that lead people to come up with opinions such as LRMs being overpowered, Lights being overpowered, gauss being the worst weapon, machine guns being overpowered, and an array of other horrifically skewed opinions that completely disagree with the statistics.

Explain that then, but jumping to a line of "Opinions can be wrong" limits your own to a binary system that leads more often to conflict rather than discussion (which is what forums are for, even though it isn't always evident online ).

Show these statistics, back up your observations with the evidence you have accumulated that is the way towards debate and honest discussion.

I agree with your opinions btw, I just get tired of coming to this forum and seeing folks say "No, you're wrong: comp tier" without showing the why.

[TheArisen]

I understand what you're going for with this list but frankly the Kodiak is the best assault & arguably best in game. Victory can often be determined by which side has more Kodiaks.

[Wrathful Scythe]

Something that falls after a mild breeze isn't exactly OP. Unlike the Cheetah you need to be at least average to make the Locust work or else you just die in the first minute. It's mobility comes with a risk, which takes it to a good place in my opinion. I'm with you with the cheetah, though. That thing is just the way to go if you want to turn the tide with a light mech.

The Warhammer is also not that great. Mechs like the Night Gyr, Timber Wolf or the Marauder feel stronger to me.

I'm genuinly surprised that the Kodiak-3 didn't make this list.

[Tristan Winter]

Defining OP as the best mechs of each class, in a game where classes themselves are clearly not properly balanced (e.g. light mechs get paid the least, do the least amount of damage, get the lowest number of kills, have the least ability to carry teams to victory, etc) is just not very helpful at all.

You're painting the picture as if the LCT and ACH need to be nerfed, instead of saying that practically all other light mechs need to be buffed. Or better yet, most heavy and assault mechs need to be nerfed in order to be on par with the light mechs.

But at the end of the day, some MWO players are going to be comfortable with the fact that heavy and assault mechs are the best mechs in the game, and some MWO players are not. That will never change. And I doubt this thread will change anyone's opinion about this fundamental question which is the foundation for this entire discussion.

Until the day when max tonnage limits are no longer necessary, until the day a 12-man team would not pick 10 Kodiaks even if they could, the idea of discussing OP light mechs is a bit absurd. The only exception is when a given mech is situationally OP (e.g. if an Oxide or Huginn can auto-kill any mech it gets close to), in which case its abilities would need to be adjusted (e.g. reduce offense, increase agility or durability).

Edited by Tristan Winter, 16 October 2016 - 11:54 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Good troll list, 10/10. Would read again.