69 replies to this topic

[Pjwned]

Kin3ticX, on 02 October 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

HAHAHAHA

Someone asking for better dumbfire and then you say it doesnt take skill to use

tee hee my sides

If your positioning no longer matters because you want to eliminate a major weakness then you're asking for the weapon to take less skill to use.

Edited by Pjwned, 02 October 2016 - 07:36 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

Gaden Phoenix, on 02 October 2016 - 06:01 AM, said:

LRMs are very painful if used in a team that actually does:
1. Keep locks, the amount of people that actually press R in MWO is ... (no comments)
2. Lights actually do spotting (good lights do this really well, bad lights just dont care)
3. Communicate. LRMs do **** load of damage when team coordinate fire and lock.
4. Lights bring NARC and you actually use it.
5. Some tags the enemy.

So the issues with LRM is I feel, the same issues everyone else has with PUG. Communicate, skill level and willing to work together vary alot each game. And LRM boats need to be more active. Hanging back to take random shots will not work with LRMs against a good team.

Making them MRM, just gives them 2 really strong modes, thus negating much of LRM weaknesses. You think people are crying LRMs OPed now. Wait till they get dumbfire mode. Alot more people will cry NERF (and rightly so).

this would work if If the lrm boat shares in the damage I take and I get half of their damage given.

NARC, tag and keeping a lock mean my tonnage spent on weapons and cooling is reduced and I need to spend as much time exposed to the enemy as the lrms take to get there. Our unit has a 1 lrm boat pergroup of 5 or more and they have to stay on the called target. In pugs there is never a lrm boat when I bring narc, and they usually are more than one sq away from the main group. I do press R because I want to identify if the target has a crap load out or is to be feared. There is zero reason to stay exposed after I end my volley, because I usually have half my team still shooting me in the back instead of rotating in the firing line.

[adamts01]

Kin3ticX, on 01 October 2016 - 01:22 AM, said:

Sorry but I dont see people running around in stock Raven-3Ls to give me locks. Can you be more specific as I am trying to learn how to LRM proper

This is all theory, as any change would require a re-work of the mechanics. Right now, it's not worth giving up a mech's firepower to be a spotter. And it's hit or miss whether you'll have a LRM boat on your team or an even bigger gamble if he'll be competent. That's why I stopped running a Narc 3L. I agree that the game already has enough direct fire weapons. I think LRMs should be absolutely terrifying as indirect weapons, not made in to a watered down SRMs or LBXs. My solution: Up the velocity through the roof, let each missile do 5 damage, but only give 40 missiles/ton. This way they aren't spammed, as ammo is limited, they require teamwork, as you need to make sure your spotter has a good target, AMS is useful, a single LRM5 or 10 wouldn't be laughed at, and it's worth taking a couple direct fire hits to get a lock and get a salvo off.

Kotzi, on 01 October 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Group up with someone who narcs and spots for you. You will do massive damage regularely. Thats why LRMs are feast or famine in PUG.

LRMs are feast or famine no matter what. Even if you have a dedicated spotter, you still have to have stupid enemies that don't take out the spotter, and who don't use cover.

[Vellron2005]

As a heavy LRM user and enthusiast, all I'm saying is, if LRM's could be dumb-fired to fly straight, SRM's would be worthless.. Plain and simple.

And so would MRM's..

My beef with LRM's is the 180m arming range.. even in today's missiles, you don't fire them unless they are armed, so its silly that this is still a thing. They say Clan LRM's don't have that disadvantage, but they do. Sure, they don't just bounce off, but they do zero damage..

Edited by Vellron2005, 03 October 2016 - 04:28 AM.

[adamts01]

Vellron2005, on 03 October 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

As a heavy LRM user and enthusiast, all I'm saying is, if LRM's could be dumb-fired to fly straight, SRM's would be worthless.. Plain and simple.

And so would MRM's..

My beef with LRM's is the 180m arming range.. even in today's missiles, you don't fire them unless they are armed, so its silly that this is still a thing. They say Clan LRM's don't have that disadvantage, but they do. Sure, they don't just bounce off, but they do zero damage..

I'm sure modern missiles do have an arming range. Even 40mm grenades won't explode till they're well out of range of the shooter. Besides, even if LRMs could fire at point blank, they'd still suck, because you can't aim them, they have a lock on time, and have a million counters. They're just bad.

[Gaden Phoenix]

Chuck Jager, on 03 October 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

this would work if If the lrm boat shares in the damage I take and I get half of their damage given.

NARC, tag and keeping a lock mean my tonnage spent on weapons and cooling is reduced and I need to spend as much time exposed to the enemy as the lrms take to get there. Our unit has a 1 lrm boat pergroup of 5 or more and they have to stay on the called target. In pugs there is never a lrm boat when I bring narc, and they usually are more than one sq away from the main group. I do press R because I want to identify if the target has a crap load out or is to be feared. There is zero reason to stay exposed after I end my volley, because I usually have half my team still shooting me in the back instead of rotating in the firing line.

Sounds alot like player(s) problems ... Those are way harder to fix

[Arkroma]

Novakaine, on 01 October 2016 - 03:22 PM, said:

Really? I think you need to reassess your opinion.
Or just keep it to yourself.
The only reason lurms are near worthless is because of cry babies.

Gaden Phoenix, on 03 October 2016 - 06:17 AM, said:

Sounds alot like player(s) problems ... Those are way harder to fix

MWOWC, OC regional qualifiers, 9BTC vs ISRC. (I think Bandit cast that game but I could be wrong--anyway you can find it on twitch)

9BTC had a LRM Treb. He did 14 damage over the entire game where his teammates had an average damage of 300. LRM requires your enemy team being bad. Teamwork from your side can't do anything once your enemy is good enough.

Before major changes are made, I suggest new players think LRM as training wheels---good enough at low level play but worthless otherwise. And don't get me wrong, "training wheels" exist in a lot of games and I don't really mind if we have one.

[Vellron2005]

Arkroma, on 03 October 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

MWOWC, OC regional qualifiers, 9BTC vs ISRC. (I think Bandit cast that game but I could be wrong--anyway you can find it on twitch)

9BTC had a LRM Treb. He did 14 damage over the entire game where his teammates had an average damage of 300. LRM requires your enemy team being bad. Teamwork from your side can't do anything once your enemy is good enough.

Before major changes are made, I suggest new players think LRM as training wheels---good enough at low level play but worthless otherwise. And don't get me wrong, "training wheels" exist in a lot of games and I don't really mind if we have one.

I disagree.

LRM's can be quite deadly in the right hands, much like any other weapon. I've had plenty of fun times, kills and loads of damage piloting LRM boats..

LRMs are especially usefull in FW, and any situation where you're on the defense.. I've on more than one occasion held off and advance of enemy mechs with LRM battlefield control.

LRM's are usefull if you know how to use them. If you just hang back at 900 meters and hope to hit something, you wont.

If, however, you use them in medium to even short range, but from behind safe cover, you can be deadly, and help your team greatly.

They are definitely much much more than training wheels. More like Monster truck wheels really..

I think anyone who's ever played a D&D wizard will appreciate LRMs..

P.S.

In the match you mentioned with the LRM Treb.. Its obvious that team did not practice much playing together and did not incorporate a LRM boat into their strategy.. just saying..

Edited by Vellron2005, 05 October 2016 - 03:11 AM.

[Arkroma]

Vellron2005, on 05 October 2016 - 03:10 AM, said:

In the match you mentioned with the LRM Treb.. Its obvious that team did not practice much playing together and did not incorporate a LRM boat into their strategy.. just saying..

9BTC is one of the best teams you can find that had a LRM mech in their deck. They were playing against AP region top 5 team ISRC (they should have been 2nd place but later dropped to 4th due to not enough AP players).

Feel free to watch the match (or any match that has a top 5 team and a LRM in it if you can find any) and tell me how teamwork could change the outcome.

Teams that practised enough will ditch LRMs all together. There's a reason why you never see even a single LRM was carried by those top 5 teams from any region. And chances are you are not going to see any LRM in upcoming MWOWC matches, either.

[HuganMcBabyEater]

I'd like to see LRMs work like the AVRiL rockets from UT04 - dummy fire into distance (around obstacles which would otherwise block the missiles, etc.) with last-minute lock onto a target re-directing all airborne missiles to it.