25 replies to this topic

[Hunka Junk]

I guess some of them are OK, but the vast majority are horrible.

I bought WHM's during the sale and they came with like half the armor peeled off, one ppc sitting next to a single small laser, then maybe an ac20 with a flamer and enough ammo to fire each weapon for about 30 seconds of combat. Any stock LRM loadout seems to always come with 1, maybe 2 tons of ammo. Why are these things intentionally so crappy?

My theory is that it has something to do with lore: Before the galaxy descended into perma-war, these giant bots were used for commercial/industrial use. The battlemaster was originally for picking apples and the blackjack was a riveter in a car assembly plant. You get the idea. So, when you buy a stock mech, it's like trying to turn a dump truck into an armored assault vehicle. I doubt that's right, but that is how it feels to me.

While we're at it, what is the most useless stock loadout in the game?

[Bishop Steiner]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page
for the answers you seek

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Hunka Junk, on 01 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

I guess some of them are OK, but the vast majority are horrible.

I bought WHM's during the sale and they came with like half the armor peeled off, one ppc sitting next to a single small laser, then maybe an ac20 with a flamer and enough ammo to fire each weapon for about 30 seconds of combat. Any stock LRM loadout seems to always come with 1, maybe 2 tons of ammo. Why are these things intentionally so crappy?

My theory is that it has something to do with lore: Before the galaxy descended into perma-war, these giant bots were used for commercial/industrial use. The battlemaster was originally for picking apples and the blackjack was a riveter in a car assembly plant. You get the idea. So, when you buy a stock mech, it's like trying to turn a dump truck into an armored assault vehicle. I doubt that's right, but that is how it feels to me.

While we're at it, what is the most useless stock loadout in the game?

If you think the normal stock loadouts are bad, you should see the mechs that actually were industrial mechs converted for combat use.

[El Bandito]

Hunka Junk, on 01 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

While we're at it, what is the most useless stock loadout in the game?

Spider-5D.

[Unnatural Growth]

Because in "lore", mech on mech combat was rare. Mechs were expensive, and very, very rare. You almost NEVER saw heavy and assault mechs engaged in open combat, they were too rare, expensive, and horribly difficult to repair when damaged. Once damaged in combat, they were usually withdrawn from the battle before they could be destroyed, and could be out of action for years or even decades (or longer) waiting for the parts and expertise to repair them. Often, if they were only marginally damaged, they were just left that way, and would be fielded in their next campaign/battle still with existing damage present from their last combat mission(s).

This "instant" repair we have in MWO makes "heroes" of us all.

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 01 October 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Spider-5D.

even that would probably beat a SHD-2D, stock. 55 ton mech speed, 25 ton mech armor, 30 ton mech firepower. At least the Spider can be a nuisance and a pain to hit.

[Boulangerie]

Here's a good stock loadout for ya for MWO.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Charger

When are we getting this?

[Bombast]

Three reasons.

1. The stock loadouts are from Battletech, a tabletop game with vastly different rules. Movement and combat are turn and hex based, mixed loadouts aren't a huge issue because you're not dealing with 6 different firing buttons, reload speeds, and reticle lead points. So on and so forth.

2. Even in Battletech, the loadouts aren't ideal. However, that's not really the idea - The game's fun isn't just in winning, but in trying to overcome inherit design flaws in the mechs you're using. If all the mechs were designed to use 'perfect' weapon suites, there'd only be a dozen or so of them and everyone would use pretty much the same ones. It would be boring as hell.

3. For the fluff flavor.

Edited by Bombast, 01 October 2016 - 06:13 AM.

[nehebkau]

Bombast, on 01 October 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

2. Even in Battletech, the loadouts aren't ideal. However, that's not really the idea - The game's fun isn't just in winning, but in trying to overcome inherit design flaws in the mechs you're using. If all the mechs were designed to use 'perfect' weapon suites, there'd only be a dozen or so of them and everyone would use pretty much the same ones. It would be boring as hell.

I think you just hit MWOs problem right in the pie-hole.

[Bombast]

nehebkau, on 01 October 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

I think you just hit MWOs problem right in the pie-hole.

Just the nature of the beast. It's not unique to MWO - the rest of the MechWarrior games were the same way, to various extents. Even Battletech games tend to get a bit samey when you allow people to bust out the construction rules (unless you can get a group of people who are more interested in fluff then in meta design, then it's a race to the bottom, not the top, and it's fun as hell).

Edited by Bombast, 01 October 2016 - 07:10 AM.

[Tordin]

Bombast, on 01 October 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

Three reasons.

1. The stock loadouts are from Battletech, a tabletop game with vastly different rules. Movement and combat are turn and hex based, mixed loadouts aren't a huge issue because you're not dealing with 6 different firing buttons, reload speeds, and reticle lead points. So on and so forth.

2. Even in Battletech, the loadouts aren't ideal. However, that's not really the idea - The game's fun isn't just in winning, but in trying to overcome inherit design flaws in the mechs you're using. If all the mechs were designed to use 'perfect' weapon suites, there'd only be a dozen or so of them and everyone would use pretty much the same ones. It would be boring as hell.

3. For the fluff flavor.

This! Its always fun to squeeze as much potentional out of stock builds as possible. Lorefluff & Challenge in one package ftw!

[Danghen Woolf]

stock 3025 FTW

[SpiralFace]

Its also worth mentioning that Battletech is a table top wargame. The units are intentionally not meant to be ballanced 1 for 1 against each other, because the primary balancing mechanic is a points value base like many other TT war games.

For example, in MWO, a stock Jagermech seems like a completely garbage design, but in the context of Battletech both in campaign games where you have to manage logistics, and a BV game, its actually a very solid choice for its cost / value if you are good enough at using it.

So don't go thinking that there SHOULD be some semblance of balance in the stock design. They are there from a completely separate type of game.

[Mcgral18]

Bombast, on 01 October 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

Three reasons.

1. The stock loadouts are from Battletech, a tabletop game with vastly different rules. Movement and combat are turn and hex based, mixed loadouts aren't a huge issue because you're not dealing with 6 different firing buttons, reload speeds, and reticle lead points. So on and so forth.

2. Even in Battletech, the loadouts aren't ideal. However, that's not really the idea - The game's fun isn't just in winning, but in trying to overcome inherit design flaws in the mechs you're using. If all the mechs were designed to use 'perfect' weapon suites, there'd only be a dozen or so of them and everyone would use pretty much the same ones. It would be boring as hell.

3. For the fluff flavor.

There's also construction rules which differ a fair bit


Largest factor: Engine being a multiple of tonnage
You can't have that STD350 on an Atlas, you have to choose between a slow 300, or a "fast" 400 (see, Charger for an STD400)


So, while you would save a ton or ten for some builds by downgrading the engine, you'd gain that in armour, weapons or ammo.

[Tristan Winter]

Hunka Junk, on 01 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

My theory is that it has something to do with lore

[The6thMessenger]

Hunka Junk, on 01 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

Why are these things intentionally so crappy?

I'm pretty sure that you're supposed to grind for better builds.

[RestosIII]

Hunka Junk, on 01 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

While we're at it, what is the most useless stock loadout in the game?

Mist Lynx A. 2 MGs, flamer, tag, AMS. GL.

[Bregor Edain]

OldOrgandonor, on 01 October 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Because in "lore", mech on mech combat was rare. Mechs were expensive, and very, very rare. You almost NEVER saw heavy and assault mechs engaged in open combat, they were too rare, expensive, and horribly difficult to repair when damaged. Once damaged in combat, they were usually withdrawn from the battle before they could be destroyed, and could be out of action for years or even decades (or longer) waiting for the parts and expertise to repair them. Often, if they were only marginally damaged, they were just left that way, and would be fielded in their next campaign/battle still with existing damage present from their last combat mission(s).

This "instant" repair we have in MWO makes "heroes" of us all.

Mech combat was anything from rare, it was the predominent form of warfare from the moment they where mass produced until the dark ages. Repairs also certainly did not take decades, more like days or weeks depending on the level of damage.

[Vxheous]

The low ammo thing stems from the fact that tabletop burned 1 shot per turn (which means say 1 ton of ammo with 10 shots gives you 10 turns). Your mech may not even live through 10 turns before it dies, so it made no sense for mechs to carry more ammo than that.

[C E Dwyer]

Hunka Junk, on 01 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

I guess some of them are OK, but the vast majority are horrible.

I bought WHM's during the sale and they came with like half the armor peeled off, one ppc sitting next to a single small laser, then maybe an ac20 with a flamer and enough ammo to fire each weapon for about 30 seconds of combat. Any stock LRM loadout seems to always come with 1, maybe 2 tons of ammo. Why are these things intentionally so crappy?

My theory is that it has something to do with lore: Before the galaxy descended into perma-war, these giant bots were used for commercial/industrial use. The battlemaster was originally for picking apples and the blackjack was a riveter in a car assembly plant. You get the idea. So, when you buy a stock mech, it's like trying to turn a dump truck into an armored assault vehicle. I doubt that's right, but that is how it feels to me.

While we're at it, what is the most useless stock loadout in the game?

whelp blame pin point weaponry in this game for that ;-)
P.G.I doubled the armour, value because mechs died to quickly, plus lots of other stuff that I can't be bothered to put, because this website is lagging lol