39 replies to this topic

[Douglas grizzly]

I have found over countless drops over the last year that there are automatic losses that fall under two categories or a combination of the two. category one is a drop into canyon and the other is a conquest drop. In both cases the people i have the misfortune to drop with cant seem to shoot right or get slaughtered when the other side is all tier one players or have multiple cheaters or both. Since pgi cant or wont fix the situation i do not expect it to get better and this is more of a irritated rant. forum trolls buzz off since you seem to delight in pestering people.

[C E Dwyer]

Yet you pester us with this

BTW bee's buzz, Trolls ummm..stomp erm..

Hey guys what kind of Gait or noise goes good with Trolls.

No a locked gait isn't any good either, or a Troll gait on a bridge

[Wintersdark]

Douglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I have found over countless drops over the last year that there are automatic losses that fall under two categories or a combination of the two. category one is a drop into canyon and the other is a conquest drop. In both cases the people i have the misfortune to drop with cant seem to shoot right or get slaughtered when the other side is all tier one players or have multiple cheaters or both. Since pgi cant or wont fix the situation i do not expect it to get better and this is more of a irritated rant. forum trolls buzz off since you seem to delight in pestering people.

Not sure how else to respond to this.

I'm curious, because there are 12 other players then that win every time in matches against you in Conquest or Canyons, so... what do all your matches have in common? By your own logic... so... What do you expect PGI to do to "fix" this?

I'm totally serious here, and not trolling you.

What should PGI do? You say they can't or won't fix the situation... but as many people win Conquest and Canyons matches as lose them; that's obvious. So... What is wrong? What is the problem they should fix? That you personally lose all your Conquest or Canyons matches? Because that's what you're saying here, but if I go anywhere down that road, I imagine you'll accuse me of trolling.

So, seriously, what should they do?

[Douglas grizzly]

Wintersdark, on 02 October 2016 - 11:11 AM, said:

Not sure how else to respond to this.

I'm curious, because there are 12 other players then that win every time in matches against you in Conquest or Canyons, so... what do all your matches have in common? By your own logic... so... What do you expect PGI to do to "fix" this?

I'm totally serious here, and not trolling you.

What should PGI do? You say they can't or won't fix the situation... but as many people win Conquest and Canyons matches as lose them; that's obvious. So... What is wrong? What is the problem they should fix? That you personally lose all your Conquest or Canyons matches? Because that's what you're saying here, but if I go anywhere down that road, I imagine you'll accuse me of trolling.

So, seriously, what should they do?

one ban level 1's from dropping with lower levels and 2 the alternate accounts of those level 1's should be based on the old accounts level. track this using the isp. also do random sweeps for cheat programs and do not announce it in any way.

[vibrant]

Douglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

one ban level 1's from dropping with lower levels and 2 the alternate accounts of those level 1's should be based on the old accounts level. track this using the isp. also do random sweeps for cheat programs and do not announce it in any way.

There isn't enough population to be able to separate tiers completely. Regarding tracking accounts by IP... is it not possible in your eyes that there might be two people, at one house, who both play MWO? Is it fair that if one of them is good and the other not, the poorer player should get stuck with a level rating they haven't earned and can't perform at?

It's an online game... people have different reasons for playing. While some take the game seriously, others are goofing off. While some want to win, others simply want to smash mechs. Personally, I've not seen a single player that I felt was definitely cheating. There are plenty of great players, and even more lucky shots. Oh, and the great players... will be dragged up the tiers very quickly on a new account.

Edited by vibrant, 02 October 2016 - 12:59 PM.

[Pat Kell]

Douglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

one ban level 1's from dropping with lower levels and 2 the alternate accounts of those level 1's should be based on the old accounts level. track this using the isp. also do random sweeps for cheat programs and do not announce it in any way.

Correct tier 1 guys shouldn't get to play because they are good. We should stick them in a corner and only let them come out when there are enough of them to play a match solely by themselves. How dare they have the audacity to point and click better than other people....monsters. Now, PGI, get out your magic coding book and make it happen ASAP.

[FuhNuGi]

Cathy, on 02 October 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Yet you pester us with this

BTW bee's buzz, Trolls ummm..stomp erm..

Hey guys what kind of Gait or noise goes good with Trolls.

No a locked gait isn't any good either, or a Troll gait on a bridge

Trolls... I am thinking they are kind of like Wild Things...

"And the wild things roared their terrible roars and gnashed their terrible teeth and rolled their terrible eyes and showed their terrible claws.”
― Maurice Sendak, Where the Wild Things Are

Or, they make the sound of the mass consumption of nachos and beer.

[Tarl Cabot]

Douglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

one ban level 1's from dropping with lower levels and 2 the alternate accounts of those level 1's should be based on the old accounts level. track this using the isp. also do random sweeps for cheat programs and do not announce it in any way.

What about Wintersdark, Cathy and, even myself? We are level 2, but then PSR is not a zero-balance equation. There will be people in Tier 1/2 who likely belong in 2/3. And considering there are only 5 levels that is not saying much. Times of the day can also vary the tiers. Those who play doing short specific time frame may be in a higher or lower tier than due to the limited match ups for that time period. Too many variables.

It is not just the mechs but also whether or not the teams communicate with each other, and how/ where the teams move. Of course if there is no actual/constant communication things can so south really quick. Close matches are matches were both sides made mistakes and failed to take advantage of openings.

The only variable that is under your control is forming up groups of people who are willing to give and follow directions, communicate. Of course if you are not the sort who does that, you are simply rolling the dice.

edit - cheaters - did you use the "mechanized" form for cheetahs or did you mean actual cheaters, and how are they cheating?

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 02 October 2016 - 01:31 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Fix PSR so it is zero sum instead of an XP bar, that would fix it. As for Conquest and Canyon Network? Conquest as well as Domination are the two most hated game modes due to there is an objective that allows the enemy to win without killing all (in assault it is ignoble in 85% of the maps). As for Canyon Network? It is hilariously considered one of the most balanced maps in the game, HPG being the other. They are mostly favored due to short distance to go to get to the fight.

Just focus on doing well for yourself like most players do and realized majority of your matches are going to feel like you didn't do anything or failed badly in.

[Deathlike]

If you want to stop losing so often, find competent friends to play with.

Even better, maybe learn something from them.

You don't have to take this advice... you're on your own in solo queue.

[nitra]

canyon is the worst map,

this player base is already split on which tactics to use when playing the game (aggressive / conservative)

and what canyon does is effectively split the aggressors from the conservatives so a good portion of your team is usually in the ditches doing nothing while the rest is participating in trading damage.

its luck of the draw as to rather you get some players who can win the trades soften up the enemy team enough so that those in the ditches can come out and finish off the remaining enemy.

with canyon splitting the team like it does very few games on canyon will seem like a fair fight and usually end in complete stomps.


every so often you will get a majority of people who can shoot lurk in the ditches and end up finishing off the enemy push but here recently this seems to happen less frequently.


your only hope is to get your team out of the ditches and their guns on the field shooting at the enemy. the less mechs in the ditches the better your chance at wining.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Deathlike, on 02 October 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

If you want to stop losing so often, find competent friends to play with.

Even better, maybe learn something from them.

You don't have to take this advice... you're on your own in solo queue.

If only we had the ability to play in 2-3 person groups without being dumped in group queue with 2 to 10 man groups. Said this before, MWO needs you to group up to 3 people for quick play, then have a 8v8 group queue team battle sort of thing that works like our current group queue does. Leave organized 12v12 to CW to give CW something unique to it's name.

[UnofficialOperator]

Douglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

I have found over countless drops over the last year that there are automatic losses that fall under two categories or a combination of the two. category one is a drop into canyon and the other is a conquest drop. In both cases the people i have the misfortune to drop with cant seem to shoot right or get slaughtered when the other side is all tier one players or have multiple cheaters or both. Since pgi cant or wont fix the situation i do not expect it to get better and this is more of a irritated rant. forum trolls buzz off since you seem to delight in pestering people.

Hmm and what is the common denominator? Can't quite place my finger on it

[Wintersdark]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 02 October 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

If only we had the ability to play in 2-3 person groups without being dumped in group queue with 2 to 10 man groups. Said this before, MWO needs you to group up to 3 people for quick play, then have a 8v8 group queue team battle sort of thing that works like our current group queue does. Leave organized 12v12 to CW to give CW something unique to it's name.

We had that, it didn't work.

[Wintersdark]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 02 October 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Fix PSR so it is zero sum instead of an XP bar, that would fix it. As for Conquest and Canyon Network? Conquest as well as Domination are the two most hated game modes due to there is an objective that allows the enemy to win without killing all (in assault it is ignoble in 85% of the maps). As for Canyon Network? It is hilariously considered one of the most balanced maps in the game, HPG being the other. They are mostly favored due to short distance to go to get to the fight.

Just focus on doing well for yourself like most players do and realized majority of your matches are going to feel like you didn't do anything or failed badly in.

PSR being zero sum wouldn't fix this. And pro tip: It cannot be zero sum as players enter and leave the game all the time. A "zero sum" system would still feature inflation/deflation of score value as a result.

But even if we had a magic rating system that somehow miraculously rated people by actual skill only, that would still not change anything.

There aren't enough people playing all the time to separate people firmly into different buckets. I did the math elsewhere and am really not interesting in going through it again, but even if you multiplied the current steam average concurrent user count by a factor of 10 we'd still need the MM to open release valves in all but the busiest times.

[Wintersdark]

Douglas grizzly, on 02 October 2016 - 12:14 PM, said:

one ban level 1's from dropping with lower levels and 2 the alternate accounts of those level 1's should be based on the old accounts level. track this using the isp. also do random sweeps for cheat programs and do not announce it in any way.

So you're saying you automatically lose Conquest and Canyons games because... there are better players than you on the other team? Is that it?

They *DO* constantly look for cheating programs, that's part and parcel to running a game like this. However, it's not a trivial task.

You certainly cannot rely on IP to differentiate players; that's ridiculous. You can't even use hardware to do so. But a player with a "smurf" account they do well on will very, very quickly leave the low tiers. Extremely quickly. So, someone making smurf accounts isn't going to do a lot of harm, they're just going to win a bunch for a while and then... Oh look, smurf account in T1.

Remember, early progress rate in PSR is a factor of total games played as well as game score. You can get through to T3 in a (reasonable, non-neckbeard) day of highly successful play.

In short, smurf accounts aren't causing your problems.

Edited by Wintersdark, 02 October 2016 - 04:36 PM.

[Deathlike]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 02 October 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

If only we had the ability to play in 2-3 person groups without being dumped in group queue with 2 to 10 man groups. Said this before, MWO needs you to group up to 3 people for quick play, then have a 8v8 group queue team battle sort of thing that works like our current group queue does. Leave organized 12v12 to CW to give CW something unique to it's name.

That wouldn't solve your problem. Besides getting people ragey about grouping up (and FW is not an option for obvious reason), most of time people want to play with their friends.

The thing is, that means everyone has to be committed to working together... strangely the thing that is frowned upon for whatever strange reasons even though it's a fundamental core design of the game.

While it makes trying to helping a new player to the game problematic (a thing PGI has never bothered to work on fixing), people actually need to be committed to working together, regardless of their skill. When I see a teammate get scared off from being the second guy on a double team (2v1), that's when you know there's a problem in teamwork.

It was still actually a struggle when we had 8v8 for those types of matches. I'm not even sure it's realistically doable outside of comp play (which is already a minority).

Edited by Deathlike, 02 October 2016 - 04:41 PM.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 October 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

The thing is, that means everyone has to be committed to working together... strangely the thing that is frowned upon for whatever strange reasons even though it's a fundamental core design of the game.

As I keep saying time and time again, at least half of the problems with MWO can be traced back to the player base. <shrugs>

[Zibmo]

I have never seen so much bad play in the years I've played than I see now. I played 5 games this afternoon. Of those 5, I was outright killed by my own team within 2 minutes of dropping once, cored from behind while leaving the spawn and been shot from the rear more times than I can count.

And that doesn't even touch on the fact that people can't drive and mill about at the drop zone for almost a minute before they are able to start moving.

Unbelievable. It's gotten to where I hate this ******* game.

Edited by Zibmo, 02 October 2016 - 04:56 PM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Wintersdark, on 02 October 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

So you're saying you automatically lose Conquest and Canyons games because... there are better players than you on the other team? Is that it?

They *DO* constantly look for cheating programs, that's part and parcel to running a game like this. However, it's not a trivial task.

You certainly cannot rely on IP to differentiate players; that's ridiculous. You can't even use hardware to do so. But a player with a "smurf" account they do well on will very, very quickly leave the low tiers. Extremely quickly. So, someone making smurf accounts isn't going to do a lot of harm, they're just going to win a bunch for a while and then... Oh look, smurf account in T1.

Remember, early progress rate in PSR is a factor of total games played as well as game score. You can get through to T3 in a (reasonable, non-neckbeard) day of highly successful play.

In short, smurf accounts aren't causing your problems.

Hmm, so ELO was truly Zero Sum, I hadn't known that. Then again that type of math makes my brain hurt so I can't complain about getting it wrong.

As for the group stuff not working in that method, I was not around back then, sad to hear it does not work, highly unfortunate. Still though the XP bar PSR bar does not work as a proper measuring tool. We can see this by how long it takes for T1 players to get a match, if things were properly distributed instead of the weird distribution.

EDIT: Fixed a misquote, sorry about that Deathlike, your points are still 100% valid though.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 02 October 2016 - 05:27 PM.