24 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

as i have been playing my cataphracts as late, and having lots of fun in them, it got me thinking about the 3L reward mech, and only needing to spend 20 bucks on something, i thought well maybe.. And before you say marauder, no.. i just don't like the look of it i know, i'm crazy, but looks matter to me. The war hammer just doesn't seam like my style either. Sure PPC's can run well in it, but with ED, and quirks up in the air, i am hesitant to go with it at this point. I also have enough heavies as it is.

the bush wacker is a favorite, but no clue how it will play, and i have a crap ton of mediums anyway so again, lots of mechs and play styles in both classes.

So that leaves the cyclops, which i just love the looks, but playing around with builds, i just don't know.. It seams a lot of what it can do, i can do in my stalkers, or Atlas's, (my only other assault's are Victors, maybe ED and new quirks will fix um!)

I'd only get the 20 dollar package, so no hero, or ECM version.. Seams like you could kinda boat ac2's with some other weapons, or load up LRM's or SRM's or maybe a mech that can boat some heavy weapons and add some streaks for pesky lights? Also seams it could be the fastest of my assaults, So maybe a fast AC20 brawler? Kinda like a cross between a speedy atlast and a cataphract with missiles? Maybe it would play kinda like an EXE only with missiles instead of energy? I do enjoy my EXE, I am torn.

Can anyone give me the low down on how these things have been playing? I don't see a lot of them, but i have seen some perform well, but as we all know, it is more pilot than anything a lot of the time.

Besides that, i think a big decider is just how much faster will this energy boat 3L be? Speeding around in a cataphract does sound like fun, but do we know how much MASC is going to be adding to top speed with say a 300 engine?


Thoughts?

Edited by JC Daxion, 04 October 2016 - 06:28 AM.

[Morggo]

Any 'Phract is a good thing, and I just want to play with a mech with MASC so I'd say it's worth the $20.

Don't like how MAD's look, eh? Okay, I'll forgive you this once Kidding, I totally understand the importance of aesthetics.

SO. The Cyclops. I have them, possibly one of the few "meh" feelings I get out of all the mech packs I've bought over the past year. Now, that is not to say it's a bad chassis, one guy in our group runs the missile variant with LRM and SPL and just does ridiculous damage, kmdd, and outright kills on a pretty consistent basis (he's T4 if that matters).

I have, despite not clicking with it, had reasonable success in the energy boat, just not better than my Stalkers can do honestly.

We all agree that it really must be run with an XL, and for some reason all five of us in the group have hit the same odd wall building their loadouts. We just can't seem to get them a loadout better than a 70-80 ton Heavy for some reason. Now, that's not all bad perhaps, you basically end up with a Heavy in Assault level armour, but still the firepower feels a bit lacking at times.

The tacticon... nice but currently not a deal maker IMHO, perhaps later they may buff it with more info warfare? Who knows.

My Summary Recommendation: If you like missiles or fast assaults (in an XL) (and just can't find it in you heart to get a MAD pack instead)... it's not the worst addition to your stable you could make but I suspect it may end up spending more time in the barn than you other assaults.

PS: You STILL see a fair number of them in matches (at least I see one nearly every match in T3) this long after release which is a decent indicator people are finding success with them.

Not sure any of that helps, but there ya go.

Edited by Morggo, 04 October 2016 - 08:01 AM.

[TercieI]

The CP is pretty meh. Only the SRM one and Sleipnir seem to be worth much. And honestly the CTF is the loyalty mech I'm most dreading leveling.

[Bohxim]

Have most of them elited and I gotta say, it's a decently fun mech. Think of it like a banshee mixed with mauler. Unfortunately I feel 1 of the best variants is the hero which can run similar to a quad uac5 mauler. The Q variant I'm having the most fun in. 6x srm6a with xl400 runs in fast (higher end of most IS heavy speeds at 77 kph) and a pretty tight splat convergence. The Z runs weird. But I've had decent success with ac20, 2 ppc and 4 ml for a bracket build. The A can be run like a banshee, 3 ac5 and some backup lasers or 2 lbx10 and some lasers.

Decent hit boxes, seems to roll damage relatively well and quite a few load outs across the chassis. Think it is quite worth the buy imo. Hope this helps.
Cheers

[Rogue Jedi]

I do not own the cyclops so cannot speek for how it performs, but as for the Cataphract speed, with a 300 engine and MASC it should be in the 70s without MASC active and around 90-95kph with MASC and Speed Tweek.

With the max 340 engine and MASC it should outrun and outmanouver the Stormcrow

[SpiralFace]

The cyclopes is pretty good. But its defiantly not the easiest mech to get into.

While low energy mounts, and hardpoints strung out over the entire body will turn many off to the mech, and very little weapon quirks, offensively, the mech can feel much more challenging to play with then a Mauler or other direct combat centric mech.

But with a high engine cap, and some great mobility quirks for the mech's size, its an assault mech that "FEELS" like you are playing a medium mech, with a bit of "utility" with its sensor range boosting attribute, which can be much nicer then it sounds when you can spot mechs from nearly a kilo out.

The trick to the Cyclopes is that you should play it more like a nimble heavy or a chunky medium. Its not going to be the best mech for flat out front line work, but it can roll damage with the best of them given its mobility quirks,and its speed should allow you to utilize it in flanking / dueling duties, as its easily one of the most "tanky" mechs for the speed you go in. Just don't expect it to tank as much as an Atlas or other more front-line centric mechs.

[JC Daxion]

TercieI, on 04 October 2016 - 08:16 AM, said:

. And honestly the CTF is the loyalty mech I'm most dreading leveling.

This i am interested in hearing more why you say this. It is basically the only reason why i am even contemplating getting a 20 dollar package on my IS account. I was actually going to get the resistance II, to get the stalker, but i hit some major money issues and it just is not happening. But i figured i could scrap 20 bucks I'm going to dip into my Halloween fund. I just figured for the cost the assault pack would be the best bang for my buck.

Morggo, on 04 October 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Don't like how MAD's look, eh? Okay, I'll forgive you this once Kidding, I totally understand the importance of aesthetics.

yea.. I know, but honestly it looks like a deformed crab lol. Though I think the bigger reason is the way it is shaped from my point of view it is so easy to hit when you twist. It's actually easier to hit twisted than head on. So those two things make me not want it.

Rogue Jedi, on 04 October 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

I do not own the cyclops so cannot speek for how it performs, but as for the Cataphract speed, with a 300 engine and MASC it should be in the 70s without MASC active and around 90-95kph with MASC and Speed Tweek.

With the max 340 engine and MASC it should outrun and out maneuver the Stormcrow

Yea.. this is what i was thinking too.. I have been playing my 0XP that i bought in January, and this event finally got around to playing it. Been having so much fun, especially with the resize it just feels much more nimble. I could only imagine it with masc as a really nimble, heavy armored brawler. I think it will fit my play style perfect as i love the jester, and the thunder bolt 5SS. I've been using masc on my shadow cat and Executioner, and really have a fondness for the system, so that is another reason.




@ cyclops posts, The cyclopes really makes me think of it as the EXE plays, only it can boat more missiles so it has that going for it as far as being a unique play style.. It also kinda reminds me of a Victor, only with a heavier load, and more armor. I also tend to like the mechs that play faster, with heavier armor and lighter weapon loads, than the other way around.. So it kinda fits into my wheel house, I just worry that it is to much like the victor/stalker as far as loads go.. Even though it kinda uses weapons a lot like the atlas though.. It makes me wonder how similar they are, as it basically has 10 tons less weight to work with, more hard points, and 10KPH faster.. So instead of a Fat victor, is it just a more mobile atlas? Hmmmmm.. decisions.. I guess i have a bit anyway to decide and get more info from the nice folks in the NP forums.

Thanks again.. feel free to add anything else that might help

[TooDumbToQuit]

I was looking at the full set for the one with ECM and the Hero which seems to be a jr dakka Kodiak.

Does anyone own that one?

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Cataphract lives and dies by its quirks.

Low hardpoints and not the greatest of hit boxes.

Ilya is kinda neat in that it can carry 3 Gauss Rifles or 3 AC10s (I actually think it is only IS mech that can)
But again, they are all mounted very low.

[VitriolicViolet]

i have all of them but the hero and so far i like CP-11-A-DC and the CP-10-Z. The CP ADC i run as a brawler and the CPZ as a AC/20 brawler. I find it a good mech, but not amaziing. CP-11-A-DC is the best one imo.

The CP-10-Z i run with 1x AC/20 and 6x ML. thats about it but i kept the 360 STD so it hits 69kph with spdtwk. runs a little toasty but is great once your close.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b9056c402c40db8

The CP-11-A-DC is my favourite but thats because i like twin or more AMS. i run it as a brawler. 2x MPL, 1x AC/10, 4x SRM4, 1x MG, 2x AMS and a 325 STD. works great and has little range with the AC/10 and MPLs. AMS is good for closing on lurm boats. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d0ed47ac7eaef2.

I have the CP-11-A and CP-11-P with, respectively, 3x AC/5, 3x MPL and a 310 STD and for the other one (CP-P) i have 2x LBX10, 4x ML, 2x SRM4, 1x BAP, 1x ECM with a 300 STD.

[TercieI]

JC Daxion, on 04 October 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

This i am interested in hearing more why you say this. It is basically the only reason why i am even contemplating getting a 20 dollar package on my IS account. I was actually going to get the resistance II, to get the stalker, but i hit some major money issues and it just is not happening. But i figured i could scrap 20 bucks I'm going to dip into my Halloween fund. I just figured for the cost the assault pack would be the best bang for my buck.

The CTF is just in a really bad place. It has fundamental problems in low, large arms and a large, flat torso. The quirks will drive how well it plays, but the hardpoints aren't impressive: 1B/5E, so you need to go AC/20 and MLs, pure large lasers or 3LPL/2ML...I guess? Since it doesn't come with PPCs, it won't be quirked for them. So there's just nothing particularly impressive it does. MASC is nice, but eats into already limited tonnage on most builds. Just a stack of "meh." I own 349 mechs, there are 27 variants I don't have. I constantly fiddle with builds for them to find ones I want to pick up and level. The CTF-0XP, 1X and 2X are on that list, so I have messed with them a lot and never bought one. The chassis is just in a bad place. Pity since I once loved the 3D.

Edited by TercieI, 04 October 2016 - 06:52 PM.

[762 NATO]

I am not tryharding enough, I guess. Lately been running the Ilya with STD340, 1AC20 and 3MLas. Absolute blast. It is a giant hunchback with worse mounts, but it MOVES. Lots of armor with a semi shield side. And it bangs those 20 shells out.

Also I don't have a single PPC on my 4 Warhammers. 6MPL, 3ML with a STD320 on one. 2LPL, 2-3 ML, 3SRM6 on another. Dual guass 4MLs with XL300 on the (S). And 2LB10, 4 MLas, STD300 on the Black Widow. Great fun all of them.

Edited by 762 NATO, 04 October 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[Morggo]

TercieI, on 04 October 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

The CTF is just in a really bad place. It has fundamental problems in low, large arms and a large, flat torso. The quirks will drive how well it plays, but the hardpoints aren't impressive: 1B/5E, so you need to go AC/20 and MLs, pure large lasers or 3LPL/2ML...I guess? Since it doesn't come with PPCs, it won't be quirked for them. So there's just nothing particularly impressive it does. MASC is nice, but eats into already limited tonnage on most builds. Just a stack of "meh." I own 349 mechs, there are 27 variants I don't have. I constantly fiddle with builds for them to find ones I want to pick up and level. The CTF-0XP, 1X and 2X are on that list, so I have messed with them a lot and never bought one. The chassis is just in a bad place. Pity since I once loved the 3D.

Think it's a case of whether you mesh/click with a chassis more than anything. CTF's clearly don't work well for you. Now, admittedly I don't have the -1X or -2X but I've got all the others and all of them are great rides... for me they work and they work extremely well. Others... not so much. Get's back to the old saying there are no bad mechs... just mechs that don't work for some pilots I guess. Got a guy in our group that we challenge regularly and we've yet to find a "crap" mech he can't do top of company in... that reminds me... hate that guy... (nah, really he's awesome)

What's your thoughts on the -4X and Ilya... similar to the 1/2X? Just curious.

[TercieI]

Morggo, on 05 October 2016 - 05:31 AM, said:

Think it's a case of whether you mesh/click with a chassis more than anything. CTF's clearly don't work well for you. Now, admittedly I don't have the -1X or -2X but I've got all the others and all of them are great rides... for me they work and they work extremely well. Others... not so much. Get's back to the old saying there are no bad mechs... just mechs that don't work for some pilots I guess. Got a guy in our group that we challenge regularly and we've yet to find a "crap" mech he can't do top of company in... that reminds me... hate that guy... (nah, really he's awesome)

What's your thoughts on the -4X and Ilya... similar to the 1/2X? Just curious.

So maybe I wasn't clear: I have a mastered set of 3D/IM/4X. I used to love the chassis and always assumed I would eventually master the others. I remember a conversation a couple years ago where we were saying that lots of mechs come and go but it was hard to imagine a match of MWO without at least a Cataphract or two. It just doesn't do anything other mechs don't do better/more interestingly now. AC/20 and MLs doesn't fit the meta and now nothing else stands out about the chassis. The 3D doesn't jump like it did (GMan says it's fun with UACs and PPCs due to jam chance, which I can see, but haven't tried), the Ilya still has the issue of having to expose most of barn door shaped mech to bring its triple ballistics to bear (and triple ballistics isn't unique among heavies any more), and the 4X is completely outclassed by the Black Widow running the same builds. It's just a mech whose time has passed, I'm afraid.

Also: The click/mesh with a chassis phenomenon is overrated, IMO. I still love the Jenner with all my heart, it feels better and more natural to me than any other mech, but at the end of the day, the ACH gets better results these days because of inherent advantages. The "just clicks" thing may add a small boost to your performance, but for good players, adapting play to the mech is an important skill. You can't just wait for a chassis that clicks with you, you need to be able to maximize the potential of whatever you're driving.

Edited by TercieI, 05 October 2016 - 05:45 AM.

[Morggo]

TercieI, on 05 October 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

So maybe I wasn't clear: I have a mastered set of 3D/IM/4X. I used to love the chassis and always assumed I would eventually master the others. I remember a conversation a couple years ago where we were saying that lots of mechs come and go but it was hard to imagine a match of MWO without at least a Cataphract or two. It just doesn't do anything other mechs don't do better/more interestingly now. AC/20 and MLs doesn't fit the meta and now nothing else stands out about the chassis. The 3D doesn't jump like it did (GMan says it's fun with UACs and PPCs due to jam chance, which I can see, but haven't tried), the Ilya still has the issue of having to expose most of barn door shaped mech to bring its triple ballistics to bear (and triple ballistics isn't unique among heavies any more), and the 4X is completely outclassed by the Black Widow running the same builds. It's just a mech whose time has passed, I'm afraid.

Also: The click/mesh with a chassis phenomenon is overrated, IMO. I still love the Jenner with all my heart, it feels better and more natural to me than any other mech, but at the end of the day, the ACH gets better results these days because of inherent advantages. The "just clicks" thing may add a small boost to your performance, but for good players, adapting play to the mech is an important skill. You can't just wait for a chassis that clicks with you, you need to be able to maximize the potential of whatever you're driving.

Ahhh, okay gotcha now. I missed that you'd had the others mastered and run them.

I definitely get what you are saying about a good pilot finding a way to play any mech. But I still believe (think there are just two camps on this theory...) there is some we'll call it natural affinity for particular mechs... Now that you have me thinking about it in more detail it may be less the mech and more the type/shape/style/etc? In my case, of all my mechs, the humanoid shapes far underperform my non-humanoid. Can't explain it, think it has to do with wiggle rolling damage better than full on arm shielding/twisting.. dunno. But fact is in my personal data I 'click' more with non-hummies. Maybe poor example, but I get your point too.

As for the phracts, I've put my BW in trials vs. my -4X, and while I know on paper the BW is clearly superior for me my -4X wins easily... maybe I'm a poor pilot for not excelling in all mechs, but I'm fine with that as long as I've got a reliable stable to enjoy

As always, enjoyable debates with ya!

Edited by Morggo, 05 October 2016 - 06:19 AM.

[TercieI]

All good, Morggo. I do think there's some natural affinity (or interest?) by style, for sure. Somebody once asked me why I liked running Locusts (back when they had no quirks). My comment was: "There's an edge. Why would you live anywhere else?" From day one, I've mostly wanted to drive lights. That's never changed.

[The Basilisk]

While the Cyclops is surely one of the better IS - Assaults, without seriously pronounced ups or downs, the CTF has continously declined from Catapults big, sluggish, dumba.. big brother in closed beta, to not worth mentioning it when the Clan wave 1 came.

Now with mechs like Warhammer, Marauder, Black Knight or even the Archer out its only variants still worth thinking of are the ECM Cataphract (0XP) and with several limitations the jumping davion version (3D) and ... maybe ....just maybe the Ilya Muromets Hero Phract.

The problem with the Phract is ..... everything.
For everything that you could do wrong in MWO (besides using LRMs) the Phract has a variant.
Its main problem is its geometry combines the downsides of a chickenwalker with that of a humanoid mech.
--> Low slung, big arms, broad torso, big center torso hitbox and even bigger side torsoes.

Depending on variant slow topspeed (4X) and the need for XL come on top if you want to use the hardpoints of the said variants.
Also a problem are asymetric loadouts hindring you to shieldside. (2X)
XL + bad Hitboxes == enemy player thanks you for KMDD

Edited by The Basilisk, 05 October 2016 - 07:23 AM.

[invernomuto]

JC Daxion, on 04 October 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

as i have been playing my cataphracts as late, and having lots of fun in them, it got me thinking about the 3L reward mech, and only needing to spend 20 bucks on something, i thought well maybe.. And before you say marauder, no.. i just don't like the look of it i know, i'm crazy, but looks matter to me.

I chose the Cataphract as my first mech because I liked its look, so I can understand you well here

Quote

So that leaves the cyclops, which i just love the looks, but playing around with builds, i just don't know.. It seams a lot of what it can do, i can do in my stalkers, or Atlas's, (my only other assault's are Victors, maybe ED and new quirks will fix um!)

I'd only get the 20 dollar package, so no hero, or ECM version.. Seams like you could kinda boat ac2's with some other weapons, or load up LRM's or SRM's or maybe a mech that can boat some heavy weapons and add some streaks for pesky lights? Also seams it could be the fastest of my assaults, So maybe a fast AC20 brawler? Kinda like a cross between a speedy atlast and a cataphract with missiles? Maybe it would play kinda like an EXE only with missiles instead of energy? I do enjoy my EXE, I am torn.

I bought a standard Cyclops pack last month and I am still enjoying it.
The Z version is my "brawler", with lasers, AC/20 and SRMS. Not as strong as a Spirit Bear to brawl, but it works.
The Q variant is quite good, now I'm using it with 5LRM5, SRMs and lasers, but you can also build it with lots of SRMs...
The A variant is my favourite one and it's the ballistic one, with 3AC/5 or 2UAC/5.
I like the fact that you have some build variety in the basic pack.

[JC Daxion]

TercieI, on 05 October 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

Also: The click/mesh with a chassis phenomenon is overrated, IMO. I still love the Jenner with all my heart, it feels better and more natural to me than any other mech, but at the end of the day, the ACH gets better results these days because of inherent advantages. The "just clicks" thing may add a small boost to your performance, but for good players, adapting play to the mech is an important skill. You can't just wait for a chassis that clicks with you, you need to be able to maximize the potential of whatever you're driving.

See i'd have to disagree with you here, but maybe it is because i have not put 100's of drops in the mech. For me the ARC is a rough mech to get a good performance out of.. I think i may have broken 300 a couple times.. Now, the Huggin, or Death's kneel.. Both mechs that people often say are not that great.. I can break 400-500 on fairly easily if i have a decent match. the commando 1D/2A with the SRM4+2 ML build i also do quite well in, but it lacks ammo. My Raven 3L with SRM's+ML's or the 2X with 4ML+SRM6 i also do pretty well in.

My point is, for me and i'd guess many people, a mech you click with you will do far better in. That said, I am not one of those with 300+ mechs.. my IS account has 66, and Clan, just added a bunch and is now up to 24. Lucky for me, most of my mechs i do like.. but very few of them are considered top mechs. More of them are middle of the road. But i also don't play on top teams, an you know how pug life is. But i must say the Cata 0XP as of late i have been having a blast in, but thanks for your thoughts on um..

Ohh i will just add one more thing to those that have talked about the low slung arms.. I am NOT a hill poker.. I am much more of a corner person, so low slung arms don't come into play nearly as much. Also, when i play the mechs that everything gets loaded into one side, it makes me feel like i just don't tank as well. Or i forget which side is holding all my weapons and end up loosing that first So even losing half my firepower, is better than losing all of it ya know? But i do get where people are coming from on them.


*edit, I finally found this build yesterday, I think i actually found something i like with the ARC! Sense the rebuild, i have actually had some decent matches.. 4 SPL's and 2 SRM4's

Edited by JC Daxion, 05 October 2016 - 05:55 PM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

If the mech had jump jets with ppc quirks, it might be decent... But it doesnt have jump jets... So Im not intersted...