120 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

More than a few people talk about TTK being too low. Instead of nerfs, CoF or reverting to 8v8. I think it'd be worth introducing defensive technology. Obviously, some of these would need to be modified to be implemented in MWO but they'd make things more interesting. I'm not saying all of these should be implemented, just a select few, the best ones.

I personally don't have any issues staying alive and doing well. It's just that the game has way more offensive options than defensive. In BT & RL there is equipment to negate enemy weapons. These defensive techs would add to realism.

Jman6 had a good idea:
"What would be interesting would be replacing the AMS slot with a customizable Defensive slot. You could slot in the classic Anti Missile Shield to reduce missile damage. Alternatively, you could add an Anti-Ballistic shield or Anti Energy Shield. Basically you give people a choice for what sort of threat they want to be stronger against. This meta-proofs it against any future changes in thinking.

They could provide a 15-25% damage reduction. I would keep the look of the AMS attack animation because I think it's really cool, but I would make it visual and personal only. The other two should also have some sort of visual element that lets the attacker know, what weapon type you're strong against.

Mechs with multiple AMS or defensive slots like the Kitfox and Nova could also fit a different defensive weapon type in. To make it more balanced, you might make adding two or even all 3 to your mech less effective. (e.g: 25% vs energy, 15% vs ballistic, 10% vs missile).

Of course if you really don't want to deal with that, you could always just make it an upgrade purchase like Endo or Ferro."

I know these aren't all in timeline but for the sake of gameplay, Pgi should move up/bend the timeline.

1. Armored Components, extra internal on a single weapon/equipment. Needs some buffs to justify weight. http://www.sarna.net...ored_Components

2. Modular Armor, extra armor on an individual section. The simplest and most risk free option, imo. http://www.sarna.net...i/Modular_Armor

3. Reflective Armor, anti energy weapon armor. Would need to be nerfed/watered down to not be OP. http://www.sarna.net...eflective_Armor

4. Reactive Armor, anti ballistic weapon armor. Would need to be brought in line with Reflective. http://www.sarna.net.../Reactive_Armor

5. Hardened Armor, extra heavy armor, restricts movement. Good option, self-balancing. http://www.sarna.net.../Hardened_Armor

6. Heavy Ferro, heavier ferro.
http://www.sarna.net...o-Fibrous_Armor

7. Light Ferro, lighter ferro (IS attempt to recreate clan FF). http://www.sarna.net...o-Fibrous_Armor

8. Blue Shield Dampener, anti ppc shield, could be an anti energy shield you can activate for a limited time. Would need to be modified extensivly to be viable & not make PPCs extinct.
http://www.sarna.net...le_Field_Damper

9. Laser AMS, it's ams but with lasers. No ammo needs but increases heat. http://www.sarna.net...-Missile_System

As I said before, I'm not advocating adding all of these, just a select few.

My questions for everyone are:
- How much of an effect would adding defensive tech. have?
- How should these technologies be implemented in MWO?
- Which of these would be a good addition to MWO?

Edited by TheArisen, 10 February 2016 - 01:54 AM.

[TheArisen]

Bump for title change.

[El Bandito]

You forgot Blue Shield Dampener, and Laser AMS.

[TheArisen]

El Bandito, on 26 December 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

You forgot Blue Shield Dampener, and Laser AMS.

Added them.

The Blue shield would need buffing but it's interesting.

[Kilo 40]

IMO most of those things listed would just complicate balance to the point of making the game unplayable.

[TheArisen]

Kilo 40, on 26 December 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

IMO most of those things listed would just complicate balance to the point of making the game unplayable.

A fair point. However some of these would be pretty simple and straight forward.

[Amerante]

I would add mech module that adds flat 5/10/15/20 armor components /weghtclass.
Or somewhere along this line.

[LuxAstrum]

Bump because we need **** like this.

Honestly the way things are now, if we had actual defenses for stuff laser vomit would become a non-issue.

Then people would be forced to bring at least some variation in build instead of boating a particular weapon system

[Sabazial]

We asked PGI for Reactive and Reflective armour since closed beta, never happened

[Bluttrunken]

We shouldn't go overboard, a slight increase in TTK would be desireable, though. Increasing defense to particular weapon systems sounds interesting, but increased defenses should be noticable on enemy players. As with anything changes like these will probably just shift the meta. Then people will just keep posting threads complaining about that.

I'd rather see PGI return to their IW concepts from earlier testphases. They were onto something.

[Ted Wayz]

The main factor that affects TTK is pilot skill/stupidity. You can't regulate that.

TTK is fine. If you are dying quick learn to pilot or buy a Marauder.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Belphegore, on 26 December 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

We asked PGI for Reactive and Reflective armour since closed beta, never happened

Apparently only LRMs get to have magical immunity modules and equipment that negates their damage.

You know "balance".

[adamts01]

This is all cool stuff, especially LAMS. Most of the time LRMs aren't a problem, and it sucks devoting the tonnage to what we have. If there were a lighter. but slightly less effective system. I'd be all over it.

The other stuff...... Cool as it is, PGI can't even come close to balancing what they have. We've had the same laser meta for a loooooong time. I know there will always be a meta, but the meta shouldn't be leaps and bounds ahead of the 2nd runner up. Until they can balance what they have, we shouldn't clutter the mess they already can't fix.

I second the guy with the name that's too hard to type. We need their info warfare changes as a first priority. Ballistics would still suck, but lights would have a use and missiles would be effective. And before anyone says LRMs are effective, you're playing against stupid pugs, LRMs aren't even close to direct fire in effectiveness.

[Hollow Earth]

I think hardened and reflective armor is straightforward enough. each have drawbacks though the lack of melee means that the brittleness of the the armor wont be such a drawback. makes laserboating not all mighty so you need to bring out or get someone with autocannons or missiles to handle these guys.

Also i do like the idea of the armor that will increase your number of hitpoints for a reduction in speed. but im not sure if i would use it. to me, mobility is important and would not want to have a mech that less then 64.5 kph.

Also Laser AMS is also interesting. maybe once 75% heat level is reached, the L-AMS will automatically turn off. also it needs a hotkey. i can see this working very well for ballistic and missile based mechs.

Reflective Armor, Hardened Armor and the Laser AMS are the only things I'm interested in seeing in game. everything else looks too complicated.

I do like Armored components and would like to outfit them on my Orion's AC/10's since they break like eggs the moment the armor is gone. but according to the rules that would be add like what? 4 more tons to the AC/10? not sure if i can spare the tonnage for that.

Edited by Hollow Earth, 26 December 2015 - 05:10 AM.

[shopsmart]

It has been stated the TTK is wanted to be high for brawliness. Other than that, the advanced options of armor would require a time line advancement and I don't see that happening for a number of years. I would LOVE to see more options on both sides, but allas I think we won't till the current 305X mechs are all in game and PGI forced to move on. Now I can see more advanced time tech available ONLY for MCs. That would be kinda of neat.

[Alistair Winter]

I would add 2 things:

• If everyone is practically maxing out their armour all the time, then I don't think the defense is balanced properly. It shouldn't be a given that you're always equipping max armour on your CT and side torsos, I think. It should be a judgement call, just like the distribution of weapons, heatsinks, engine size and jump jets. I'd like to see people sacrifice firepower and/or speed for extra armour sometimes.
  
• Practically nobody is using AMS, unless they can have dual AMS. AMS needs a significant buff. It may only be 1-2 tons (depending on ammo), but 1 or 2 extra heatsinks is very often preferable to most players.

[5LeafClover]

Ive seen a decent amount of AMS in use lately. At 1.5T for a useful amount, its fairly cheap. A better use than cramming in another laser and running hot. It benefits those around you too.

For me, TTK is about right. Popping certain mechs these days is like chewing through burnt steak. A bit more variety in equipment would be welcome though.

[cazidin]

The problem with most of those suggestions is... we're simply not there yet in the timeline. Notice how reflective armor is in production no sooner than late 3058? Not to mention how taxing this would be for the PGI programmer. I propose, as an alternative, that ferro fibrous armor reduce damage taken by a small percentage, say 5-10%. This would increase TTK for mechs with FF, making it competitive with ES.

*I stand corrected. LAMS were in production by the Clans in mid-late 3040 and in the IS by 3058 or later.

Edited by cazidin, 26 December 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[Viges]

TheArisen, on 25 December 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

3. Reflective Armor, anti energy weapon armor. http://www.sarna.net...eflective_Armor

PGI PLZ!

[Johny Rocket]

Reflective armor would shift the meta favorably. Ive wanted this all along. Players will rage quit in droves if cannons or missiles are the meta because of screen shake and explosions, when lasers are actually doing much more damage to them.

I would love to bump the timeline a decade or so, I have a suspicion that one of the things holding that back is RL current events because the story line would shift to Word of Blake and pgi are Canadians where political correctness is much more entrenched. The whole Jihad story line becomes an issue for them.
http://www.sarna.net...i/Word_of_Blake

Edited by Tractor Joe, 26 December 2015 - 07:47 AM.