26 replies to this topic

[Sereglach]

Honestly, I'm disillusioned enough that I don't think PGI will take note, and I don't think these concepts will get anywhere. [EDIT: PGI has said new tech IS coming so here's fingers crossed this thread had influence over how it gets implemented or at least the decision to bring it in, showing how simple some things can be achieved with respectable balance.] However, it's stuff I've been pondering on and off for quite a while, so I figured I'd put the concepts here on the Forums.

Simply put, there are quite a few weapons and equipment that already exist in canon but aren't in the game, yet. Some may be a bit out of timeline, but that doesn't remove the validity of the idea behind their implementation . . . it just doesn't mean we would see it right away. We're already getting mechs that are pushing well beyond the "timeline" of MWO, so tech expansion is only a matter of time.

Some things are obvious. Eventually we'll probably see the missing IS ER weapons, Streaks, LBX, and Ultra autocannons. They can simply be implemented in the same fashion as the counterparts that already exist. That's all well and good. Here are suggestions for other things that we don't have, yet, but could certainly get now or in the future.

Take note that numbers are provided for numerous systems to act as examples, and are not something that I’m stating should be absolutely set in stone.

1. IS Tech - Mech Rifles:

Spoiler

Mech Rifles fill a desperately needed niche. They provide some lightweight ballistics for the IS that fill the broad gap between the .5 ton MG and the 6 ton AC/2. These weapons can be PPFLD without much issue, because the highest damage -from the Heavy Rifle- is only 8 points. In canon these weapons are inferior to Autocannons, and we can keep that flavor, but we don't need to implement the abstract penalties inflicted upon them by the TT rules. We have plenty of other stats to work with . . . and the perfect ones for this situation are cooldown and range. Here are some simple implementations for these weapons.

Light Rifle (Dynamic Visual of AC/2, maybe smaller, no new art required):
Tons - 3
Crits - 1
Heat - 1
Damage - 3
Cooldown - 1.5
Range - 270m Optimum, 540m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 48 (not the most efficient shots/ton, but it's still over a minute of solid firing and 144 damage vs. 150 of an AC/2)

Medium Rifle (Dynamic Visual of AC/5, maybe smaller, no new art required):
Tons - 5
Crits - 2
Heat - 2
Damage - 6
Cooldown - 2.5
Range - 360m Optimum, 720m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 24 (nearly a minute of solid shooting per ton at 144 damage)

Heavy Rifle (Dynamic Visual of AC/10, maybe smaller, no new art required):
Tons - 8
Crits - 3
Heat - 4
Damage - 9
Cooldown - 3.0
Range - 450m Optimum, 900m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 16 (Yet again, 144 damage this time at around 45 seconds of shooting)

DPS gains are still acquired over the increases in weapon size. However, the inefficiency in comparison to Autocannons is stark . . . but you get what you pay for in tonnage and crits.

2. IS Tech - Magshot:

Spoiler

Speaking of lightweight ballistics that fill roles between the MG and AC/2, the Magshot is a micro-sized Gauss Rifle that is at MG weight, but has the direct fire of the Gauss Rifle. This gives light mechs another highly viable short-range and lightweight ballistic that provides more direct fire damage over the machine gun’s DPS and Crit-Seeking potential. While visually they’d look about like a micro-sized Gauss Rifle in both dynamic weapon and projectile shot, we can mechanically separate them from MG’s and Autocannons with some numbers tweaking over the TT counterpart.

Magshot MWO Stats:
Tons - .5
Crits - 2
Heat - 1
Damage - 4 (yes, Double TT damage, but reasoning will become clear in a moment)
Cooldown - 2.25 (see, clear)
Range - 270m Optimum, 540m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 50 (no need to increase TT ammo/ton with higher damage and longer cooldown)

Now, suddenly, we have a lightweight and tiny gauss rifle that fits into light mechs, but provides a reasonable amount of hitting power for ambushes or poke-and-shoot tactics. While individual shots are pinpoint and hit as hard as 2 AC/2 rounds, the DPS on this tiny weapon is barely better than a Small Laser, and ammo dependant.

3. IS Tech - Rocker Launchers:

Spoiler

Rocket Launchers are a little tricky, at first, but still easily accomplished. In TT they're one-and-done dumb-fire systems that fire their salvo and provide a strong first-hit potential. In MWO, we can mimic this with extremely high-velocity dumbfire missiles that would still be reasonably effective at the 540 meter range limit of the weapon system.

However, to make the system more reasonable of an investment, I'd make each rocket fire individually (allowing the pilot to control the release of their single-shot salvo) with a .5 second cooldown between rockets (preventing macro abuse). Then, give each rocket significantly increased damage over the 1 damage TT value . . . 5 damage per rocket is a reasonable place to start. That would allow the smallest system (the RL/10) the ability to at least inflict 50 points of damage by itself before being expended, if all rockets hit. As a downside, the slight randomness of a Cone of Fire (already present and in use on MG’s) makes that damage a bit more difficult to aim.

Simple, easily implemented, and reasonably valuable. Visually they can also utilize the effects of LRM counterparts at their given size.

4. IS Tech - Binary Laser Cannon (Nicknamed Blazer):

Spoiler

Here we have a rather unique weapon, it's basically two large lasers that have been smashed together to create an extremely high damage, high heat, mid-range weapon system. Visually, to emphasize it's size and scope, I'd recommend utilizing the visuals of a PPC for the weapon system to save on art assets. Regardless, while somewhat inefficient of a weapon in TT (some would argue its value compared to a LPL or PPC), in MWO we have the ability to manipulate other stats to make the weapon a unique and interesting addition to the battlefield.

Binary Laser Cannon (Blazer) stats:
Tons - 9
Crits - 4
Heat - 13 (dropped from 16 in TT)
Damage - 14 (upped from 12 in TT)
Beam Duration - 1.25
Cooldown - 3.5
Range - 450 Optimum, 900 Maximum

While we want to ensure that the weapon is not as efficient/effective as 2 Large Lasers, the damage and heat have been altered from the stark weakness of the weapon in TT. Now we have an energy weapon that hits nearly as hard as a Gauss Rifle but is nearly as hot as an ERPPC. It's an excellent weapon for those with few hardpoints, but have the tonnage/crits for heavy systems.

The retained reach of the weapon, and modest cooldown (compared to weapons of similar damage) make for a dangerous brawling to mid-range weapon that can create a high-risk-high-reward situational potential when paired with the high heat. On the other hand, the longer beam duration prevents it from being an ideal weapon for "poking" tactics.

5. IS Tech - MRM Systems:

Spoiler

Visually, MRM's can simply use the LRM visuals, but if unique art was made for them they could actually use similar sized boxes to the LRM systems but with much smaller visible missile tubes. They are, after all, massive salvos of micro-sized missiles with no guidance systems and modest range.

The implementation for MWO is one of the simplest. The base TT stats pretty easily carry over to MWO without tweaking. The missiles can fire in tight-knit clusters of 5-20 (two salvos per shot in the 10, 20, 30, and 40 tube-count weapon systems) with straight shot flight paths that basically make them the LBX of the missile world (but with better clustering at longer ranges). The cooldowns, on the other hand, can be made comparable to weapon systems from TT "quick swapping" (SRM/6, LRM/15, and LRM/20 for the 10, 20, and 30 respectively). A progression of 3, 4.5, 6, and 7.5 second cooldowns seems appropriate for weapons that have a damage potential upwards of 40 points per salvo.

6. IS Tech - MML Systems:

Spoiler

Now we get into something that seems to be really tricky on paper, especially with PGI's inability to do ammunition swapping. The MML (Multi-Missile Launcher) are missile systems that can fire both Long and Short range missiles. For MWO, there is a very simple fix.

Visually, MML's come in 3, 5, 7, and 9 tube counts. They're actually probably one of the few missile systems that would, in fact, need new visual effects implemented in the game. However, one could easily cheat by using the SRM/2 or 4, LRM/5, SRM/6, and LRM/10 models to get by without issue.

The missiles lock and launch like LRM's . . . on the other hand, from 0-270m ranges the missiles do 2 points of damage; and from 271-630m ranges the missiles do 1 point of damage. We've already seen that PGI can control damage curves like this in Clan LRM's "ramp up range". If PGI desires, they could even create a gradual damage dropoff after that 270m range between the 2 and 1 point of damage per missile. This becomes a simple fix for what seems like a complex problem.

Then, instead of having special ammunitions for SRM and LRM effects, you just implement one common ammunition that provides 105 missiles per ton (even amounts for everything except the MML/9 . . . not unlike SRM ammunition with the SRM/6). To balance the low missile counts, you can also give the missiles themselves a bit more health to be a bit more viable, and still land some hits, against AMS systems.

It seems tricky at first, but it's actually quite simple in the end for an effective series of missile systems.

7. IS Tech - Light/Heavy/Snub PPC:

Spoiler

While not necessarily new compared to other weapon systems on this list, they are seriously needed in MWO to fill gaps in the weapons selections.

The Light PPC, for example, provides a 3 ton, 2 crit, 5 damage and 5 heat weapon system with an optimum range of 540 meters. It's finally a PPC that can be grouped up on lighter mechs and it also fills the tonnage gap between the 1(2) ton Medium (Pulse) Laser and the 5 ton Large Laser.

L-PPC Stats:
Tons - 3
Crits - 2
Heat - 5
Damage - 5
Cooldown – 3.0
Range - 540 Optimum, 1080 Maximum

The Heavy PPC, on the other hand, is 10 tons, but is also 15 damage and 15 heat. While ranged like the standard PPC in TT, it finally gives the IS a 15 damage PPC to compete with the Clan's ERPPC (especially if the current Energy Draw iteration of 15 PPFLD goes live) and it doesn't take the tonnage of a Gauss Rifle to provide some competition.

H-PPC Stats:
Tons - 10
Crits - 4
Heat - 13.5
Damage - 15
Cooldown - 6.5
Range - 540 Optimum, 1080 Maximum

Then we have the Snub-Nosed PPC, or Snub PPC. In lore it's referred to also as the "Sawed-off Shotgun of PPC's". It's a lighter and smaller PPC that still retains more of the punch of the standard version, but it drops off faster. For MWO, all this requires is a PPC that has a long and very slow damage drop-off after a relatively short optimum range.

Snub-PPC Stats:
Tons - 6
Crits - 2
Heat - 10
Damage - 10 (1 point at maximum range)
Cooldown - 4
Range - 300 Optimum, 900 Maximum (long linear damage drop-off to simulate the TT effect of the weapon, about 1.5 points lost per 100m past Optimum)

With some minor stat tweaking from TT we've created a series of PPC's for MWO that each add their own unique flavor and spin to the weapon system. At the same time, they're reasonably balanced against the existing IS and Clan PPC's.

8. IS Tech - Light/Heavy Gauss:

Spoiler

Similar to the PPC's, these weapons add some significant variety to the weapon system, even if they aren't as "new" as other weapons and equipment on the list.

The Light Gauss Rifle isn't exactly "light" as it still comes in at 12 tons. However, compared to the 15 ton standard Gauss Rifle, it's a nice decrease in tonnage and nicely enhanced range, despite the massive drop in damage. This actually gives the IS a long-range weapon system that can outreach nearly anything else, even if the damage isn't quite as good as some of the other extreme-range damage competitors (like ERPPC's).

L-Gauss Rifle Stats:
Tons - 12
Crits - 5
Heat - 1
Damage - 8
Cooldown - 3.25
Range - 750 Optimum, 2250 Maximum (keeping in line with other Gauss triple-range maximums)
Ammo/Ton - 24

The Heavy Gauss Rifle has a massive amount of stopping power in its massive weapon system. On the other hand, like the Snub PPC, that damage is lost over range. However, given the short range of the weapon system (compared to other Gauss Rifles) and the extremely limited ammunition count, we can lessen the damage dropoff in compromise, just as other gauss rifles don't have a minimum range. In turn we also give it a cooldown that makes it not quite as good of a brawling weapon as an AC/20 but not as good of a ranged option as a standard Gauss Rifle . . . it fits somewhere in the middle, but is still an excellent main gun for what it can dish out.

H-Gauss Rifle Stats:
Tons - 18
Crits - 11
Heat - 2
Damage - 25 (2.5 at maximum range, losing 2.5 points per 100m past Optimum)
Cooldown - 7
Range - 300 Optimum, 1200 Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 6

9. IS Tech - Light Fusion Engion (LFE)

Spoiler

This is a straight up implementation from TT for all basic values. As far as the mechanics in MWO, it’d have the same functionality as the Clan XL engines, since they are the exact number and location of critical slots as the Clan XL engines. I don’t think this could be any easier. In the end you’re not quite getting the weight savings of an IS XL engine, but you’re getting the survivability of a Clan XL engine.

10. Clan Tech - Heavy Lasers:

Spoiler

Heavy Lasers are the first weapon system created by the clans that really brings out their “up close and personal” dueling culture. These weapons are extremely high heat, high damage weapons that are bulky (for clan tech) and built for brawling. While these weapons run HOT, it does give the clans a series of weapons that would provide for some clan mechs to effectively compete with IS brawling potential (within the theoretical bounds of MWO balance). Conveniently, like the rest of the laser families, visually these weapons are nothing more than every other laser model; and color-wise they could be given deep and darker tones than any other laser systems out there.

Heavy Small Laser Stats:
Tons - .5
Crits - 1
Heat - 5
Damage - 7
Beam Duration - 1.05
Cooldown - 2.5
Range - 90 Optimum, 180 Maximum

Heavy Medium Laser Stats:
Tons - 1
Crits - 2
Heat - 7.5
Damage - 10
Beam Duration - 1.1
Cooldown - 3.5
Range - 270 Optimum, 540 Maximum

Heavy Large Laser Stats:
Tons - 4
Crits - 3
Heat - 18
Damage - 16
Beam Duration - 1.15
Cooldown - 3.75
Range - 450 Optimum, 900 Maximum

11. Clan Tech - Micro Lasers:

Spoiler

Micro Lasers, which come in ER and Pulse forms, are the tiniest of knife-fighting weapons out there. They allow even the lightest of mechs to pack large amounts of close-in weapons. While primarily used on things like Battle Armor, the Clans adopted these weapons for Battlemech use and provide an interesting option for knife-fighting potential on various mechs with hardpoints to spare.

ER Micro Laser Stats:
Tons - .25
Crits - 1
Heat - 1
Damage - 2
Beam Duration - .5
Cooldown - 1.25
Range - 125 Optimum, 250 Maximum

Micro Pulse Laser Stats:
Tons - .5
Crits - 1
Heat - 1
Damage - 3
Beam Duration - .25
Cooldown - 1.0
Range - 90 Optimum, 180 Maximum

12. Clan Tech - ATM Systems:

Spoiler

Really, simply put, I could copy/paste the MML section here and have the Clan’s ATM systems covered. Coming in 3, 6, 9, and 12 tube counts the SRM 4/6 and LRM 10/15 could easily be used to accommodate these missile systems visually, but new visuals would be best for properly representing the missile systems. The missile systems can be completed with a similar damage dropoff curve as the MML’s that starts at 3 points of damage from 0-180 meters, 2 points of damage from 181-450 meters, and 1 point of damage from 451-810 meters. A blending curve could even be used, as mentioned before, for the sake of providing a more gradual change in damage. Regardless, we know the tech is already there.

Thusly, instead of having a missile system that requires 3 different types of ammunition (as in lore), we can instead supplement the weapon systems with 1 type of ammo that has 72 missiles per ton (slightly more than TT, but still at about that 200 damage per ton potential of most ammunitions; and it’s an even number of shots across all launchers). Aside from that, cooldowns that are comparable to the 4 sizes of LRM launchers would be a reasonably solid fit for the ATM launchers.

13. Clan Tech - HAG Systems:

Spoiler

The Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles are an interesting system. Thematically they’re a Gauss Rifle that fires tiny slugs as fast as a Rotary Autocannon. Mechanically, in TT, they’re basically the marriage of Gauss Rifles with LBX technology. For MWO we can treat the HAG as a Gauss Rifle that fires massive bursts of slugs in a tight cone of flak. While a burst fires 20-40 shots over the course of a second, the cone of fire for these shots would be about a 4m spread at the weapon’s optimum range. In fact, the easiest way to implement it is to basically treat the HAG systems as LBX “shotgun” bursts, just with extreme ranges and projectile velocity.

As a note, the HAG comes in sizes 20, 30, and 40. If each HAG fires 10 shot "flak cone" volleys in a similar fashion to Clan Ultra Autocannons, then you're talking 2, 3, and 4 volley bursts with each squeeze of the trigger; and in quick succession. Not only would they shred crits, but they'd also do a great job of ripping apart fast lights with nearly-guaranteed hits.

14. Clan Tech - Anit-Personnel (AP) Gauss Rifle:

Spoiler

Do NOT let the name fool you. While originally developed by the Clans to take out infantry, the AP Gauss Rifle was also intentionally designed to be able to damage hardened armor, just like any MG, HAG, or other weapon system. Now, some equate the AP Gauss to the Inner Sphere’s Magshot, but functionally the two are quite different. The Magshot fires shots like a mini Gauss Rifle, while the AP Gauss functions more like a HAG system, firing little flechette needles at supersonic speeds in rapid succession. For MWO, in order to make it unique, we can make a system that’s somewhere between a Gauss Rifle and the Clan’s burst fire autocannons.

AP Gauss Stats (Dynamic Visual of Clan-MG):
Tons - .5
Crits - 1
Heat - 1
Damage - 1x3 burst shot
Cooldown - 2.0
Range - 270m Optimum, 540m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 210 (like Clan Autocannons, this accounts for each slug consuming a unit of ammo, and equates to 70 “shots” for the weapon system)

Now, like the Magshot, the weapon’s unique functionality makes it more direct-fire than a clan MG with longer reach, but it lacks in crit-capacity and is not a hit-scan weapon. The DPS is only marginally different from a MG but still has better ambush or hit-and-run potential; and it also generates heat. While it’s still able to be called “the Clan’s Magshot”, the flavor of the two weapons has been preserved and even provides for the different tech base’s flavor.

15. Either Tech - Mech Mortars:

Spoiler

An indirect missile system that is immune to AMS, this provides an interesting form of fire support, providing high-arching shots that will bypass most frontal cover, if an indirect lock is provided. Mech Mortars can be fired using already pre-existing missile assets in a high-launched arch (firing at a 45-60 degree angle at first) with a very low maneuverability and faster projectile velocity, despite requiring a lock to fire. These munitions are simply ignored by AMS systems.

Stats for these systems can be taken straight from TT (at 2 damage per mortar "missile"/shell), otherwise, with cooldowns for the 4 mortar sizes (1/2/4/8) that are slightly longer than their LRM tier counterparts, given the system’s ability to basically ignore most cover. The longer cooldown is designed to account for the fact that these munitions will circumvent most cover while also bypass AMS systems.

16. Either Tech - XL Gyro:

Spoiler

This one is ridiculously easy to implement into MWO. In TT, the XL Gyro is an upgrade that uses up the two remaining critical slots in the CT, but provides tonnage savings of 50% the Gyro weight (which is based off the engine size). For MWO, since there are no Gyro crits in this game, we need something to prevent this from being a de-facto upgrade to any mech that doesn’t have CT weapon hardpoints. The answer is simple: using an XL Gyro causes 25% more screen shake than normal (in any situation, JJ use, weapon impacts, etc.) and also causes the mech to torso-twist 20% slower than normal. While exact numbers might need tuning, this causes the option to use an XL Gyro something that will require long and hard thought on the part of any MechWarrior.

17. Either Tech - Small Cockpit:

Spoiler

The Small Cockpit is just as easy to implement into MWO as the XL Gyro. The Small Cockpit reduces the weight of the Cockpit by 1 ton (all mech “Heads”, the Cockpit, weigh a base 3 tons before armor) and provides an extra open critical slot in the head, giving 2 open slots. For TT, this is risky because it makes all piloting checks harder and your life support systems are more fragile. For MWO, we need a tangible risk for taking this “upgrade”, which can be accomplished by reducing all agility of the mech (arm movement, turn speed, acceleration/deceleration, etc.) by 5-10%. Just like the XL Gyro, numbers might need tuning, but it’s something that will make pilots think really hard before choosing this “upgrade” to get an extra ton and extra head-critical out of their mech.

18. Either Tech - Hardened Armor:

Spoiler

We already have damage reduction tech built into MWO. It’s currently used on the 10% damage reduction provided by missile doors when they’re closed. Hardened Armor doesn’t use any extra critical space, but it does weigh twice as much as normal armor in order to gain 50% damage reduction to all incoming damage. This effectively doubles the armor value of your mech at the cost of double the weight. The implementation is simple, and it gives Battlemech pilots (the armor isn’t compatible with Omnimechs) a solid defensive choice to use for their mechs and opens up a whole new world of mech building for MWO. It’s so simple and yet would have far-reaching impacts on mech building decisions.

19. Either Tech - Reactive Armor:

Spoiler

By the book, we’re looking at a type of armor that takes up 14 crit slots, and reduces the effects of missile weapons by 50% (and some things like specialty autocannon rounds, but we don’t have those). That, in and of itself, is already a pretty reasonable cost for the armor. In TT, though, there’s also the chance to have catastrophic failure in your armor from other weapons’ fire that instantly strips all of the armor from the given location. That would leave a huge part of armor protection up to the RNGods . . . and I don’t think anyone would be very happy about that, especially when you have an instance such that the first little laser grazing of your armor suddenly finds all of the armor on your CT gone in a flash.

So, there’s a simple solution. Reactive armor reduces the damage of all missile and ballistic weapons by 50% and causes the mech to actually take 10% more damage from other sources (energy weapons). As stated with Hardened armor, we already have the tech in game to manipulate damage reduction, so it can be used here to provide simple results for great benefit to gameplay opportunities.

20. Either Tech - Reflective Armor:

Spoiler

Not too different from Reactive Armor. TT Stats are 10 crits for armor that reduces incoming energy weapon effects by 50%. However, in TT the armor is insanely vulnerable to Artillery, physical impacts (falls, crashes, melee), and specialty munitions. Most of those vulnerabilities don’t exist in MWO.

However, there’s a simpler solution that mirrors the Reactive armor. Because the armor actually uses less critical space than Reactive armor, the armor would provide a 50% damage reduction to energy weapons (both physical and heat damage) while taking 15% more damage from other weapon types. This greater vulnerability compensates for the fact that it takes less crits than Reactive.

21. Either Tech - Stealth Armor:

Spoiler

First off, Stealth Armor requires ECM to power it. Thusly, the upgrade is only going to be made available to mechs that not only have an ECM hardpoint, but they need to have it equipped. Funnily enough, thanks to Omnitech fixed crit technology in game, we can easily cause the ECM and armor crits to become fixed when the upgrade is applied to the mech.

In TT, it’s actually pretty simple. While active Stealth Armor generates a boatload of ambient heat (like the minimal amount of heat generated from movement) within the mech but completely shields it from all forms of detection. In effect, Stealth Armor is what actually grants the effect currently provided by the current ECM “Magic Jesus Box” but only does so for the mech it’s equipped on. Obviously, ECM would need to be given the proper fix (which we know exists because it was used in the Mech Rebalance PTS phases in late 2015) for Stealth Armor to have a worthwhile effect in MWO.

Outside of that, the upgrade option would be pretty much a straight carry-over from TT. Equipping Stealth armor requires ECM on the mech. It also forcibly uses up 2 crit slots (fixed slots, not unlike Omnitech fixed criticals) each in the arms, legs, and side torsos. Conveniently it weighs the same amount as standard armor. To cover the heat issues and functionality from TT, while the ECM is set to Disrupt Mode the Stealth Armor would be active, but heat dissipation would be cut in half. Setting ECM to Counter Mode would disable Stealth Armor but permit normal cooling. The only thing that can sniff-out active Stealth Armor is a Bloodhound Probe (covered later). However, mechs caught in extended engagements with their Stealth Armor on are probably going to end up needing to shut it off so they can effectively cool . . . which also makes them vulnerable to detection and target locks.

22. Either Tech - Laser Anti-Missile System (LAMS):

Spoiler

Anti-Missile Systems that don’t require ammo? It sounds amazing . . . but . . . there’s still a tradeoff. That tradeoff comes in the form of heat. The LAMS is based off of the small pulse laser (which in TT pulse lasers are described as being more like energy machine guns than they are in MWO). Thusly, while they’re still great at knocking out missiles, they generate a fair amount of heat. The IS and Clan versions are different, with the IS version actually generating more heat than the Clan counterpart, but we can easily offset that in MWO with appropriate numbers tuning to create two reasonably balanced systems.

IS LAMS Stats:
Tons - 1.5
Crits - 2
Heat - .14 per shot (.7 heat per second of continuous firing)
Damage - 1.0 per shot (1 shot per 1 missile destroyed or 5 DPS)
Fire Rate - .2 second cyclic rate
Range - 240m, same as standard AMS
Limitation - Will not fire if at critical heat levels.

Clan LAMS Stats:
Tons - 1
Crits - 1
Heat - .1 per shot (.5 heat per second of continuous firing)
Damage - .75 per shot (4 shots per 3 missiles destroyed, or 3.75 DPS)
Fire Rate - .2 second cyclic rate
Range - 240m, same as standard AMS
Limitation - Will not fire if at critical heat levels.

23. Either Tech - Angel ECM:

Spoiler

Currently, we have Guardian ECM in MWO, which is the predecessor of the Angel ECM Suite. Really, the old Mech Rebalance PTS series had the ECM that we’re supposed to have in MWO (not the “Magic Jesus Box of Invisibility” that we currently have). Regardless, the upgrade is particularly easy to implement into MWO. Besides having only a 2 ton and 2 crit size in the mech, it essentially functions as two Guardian ECM Suites, and counters more advanced enemy sensors.

Now, for MWO, we don’t have things like C3 networks while ECM and Probes function the exact opposite of what they do in TT. For the purposes of MWO, we don’t want to create something that’s a flawless upgrade from the Guardian ECM suite. However, there are two possible solutions for this piece of equipment that are reasonably easy to implement:

Option 1: “Magic Jesus Box” doesn’t leave ECM.
In the event that ECM still provides the stealth effect that is supposed to be allocated to Stealth Armor, we can have the Guardian ECM suite cover twice the area of a standard ECM, but while it doesn’t provide the “sensor invisibility” of guardian ECM, it does make all target acquisition and target locks take 3 seconds longer while in Disrupt Mode. Once put in Counter Mode the target would counter another ECM unit within the same range bracket as its disrupt protection.

Option 2: ECM is fixed as per the Mech Rebalance/Information-Warfare PTS from Dec. 2015.
In the event that ECM is fixed and, instead of providing its invisibility bubble, it slows target acquisition and locks, then we can look at other avenues for making Angel ECM different but not overpowering. While it would cover the same range as Guardian ECM, instead of affecting target locks it would instead counter the effects of UAV’s, TAG, NARC, and any Active Probes within its range while in Disrupt Mode. When in Counter Mode the unit wouldn’t counter the above items, but would instead counter any other 2 ECM suites within its range that are set to disrupt mode.

24. Either Tech - Bloodhound Active Probe:

Spoiler

The Bloodhound Active Probe (or Bloodhound/BH), when combined with other equipment on this list, can serve a very specific and unique function that prevents it from being a complete upgrade over a Beagle Active Probe. The Bloodhound allows the mech to detect units that have Stealth Armor on their mechs. In addition, for MWO’s sake, the Bloodhound could function as a sort of “personal UAV”, providing complete target information on any targets outside LOS, but within range of the Bloodhound. This makes the system fulfill a similar Information Warfare role as the BAP or Clan Active Probe, but it isn’t a flat-out upgrade over the other system and instead gives us something unique.

25. Either Tech - Plasma Weapons:

Spoiler

While technically the Plasma Rifle is developed as IS tech and the Plasma Cannon is developed as Clan tech, they both serve similar functions. Also, for MWO, we run into the issue of the fact that in TT, the Plasma Cannon is, in fact, the only weapon in Battletech that actually does ZERO physical damage to units (unless it is a non-heat-tracking unit, in which the heat damage becomes physical damage).

In MWO, for balance purposes, I’d personally recommend balancing these two weapons off of each other and making them a bit more similar to each other than they are compared to TT. You can still grant the differences provided thematically by the two factions versions, but not quite as extreme as TT.

Part of the reason for this is that a weapon that does zero physical damage but relies on ammunition would be considered useless in MWO (and rightly so). The other reason for this is that having the Plasma Cannon inflict the comparative amount of heat damage that it inflicts in TT (which would probably be 20-30 heat damage in MWO to compete with the huge amounts of heat capacity) would be loathed for its near-instant crippling effects on the targets struck; and for its low weight and high heat damage (even at extreme ranges) it’d be considered a broken stun-locking weapon.

IS Plasma Rifle Stats:
Tons - 6
Crits - 2
Heat - 10
Damage - 10
Heat Damage - 7
Cooldown - 4.5
Range - 450m/900m

Clan Plasma Cannon Stats:
Tons - 3
Crits - 1
Heat - 7
Damage - 7
Heat Damage - 10
Cooldown - 4.5
Range - 540m/1080m

26. Either Tech - Rotary Autocannons:

Spoiler

As much as I can’t believe I’m saying this, the terrible and convoluted iteration of the Flamergeddon “Fix” provides the programming basis to make Rotary AC’s in MWO with little to no headache. It needs to be thrown out for Flamers, but it's useful here. Yes, that filling and slowly draining “pseudo cooldown” bar can be used to control when and how a Rotary Autocannon jams after long strains of continuous fire, with something like a 2 second pause before the weapon begins to “cooldown” from reaching the point of jamming. Aside from that, these Autocannons would be firing not unlike the Clan AC bursts, but instead in a constant stream as long as the trigger is held. The Clan versions can pay for their superior range with the TT higher crit count as well as more heat.

IS Rotary AC/2 (Dynamic Visual of Clan Ultra AC/2, no new art required):
Tons - 8
Crits - 3
Heat - .2 per shot
Damage - 2 per shot
Fire Rate - 1 shot per .25 second
Cooldown - 2 seconds before cooldown bar begins to drain, up to 6 seconds constant fire before reaching the point of jamming. A Jam takes 6 seconds to clear before the bar begins to cooldown; and firing cannot happen until the weapon has completely cooled down.
Range - 540m Optimum, 1080m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 90

Clan Rotary AC/2 (Dynamic Visual of Clan Ultra AC/2, no new art required):
Tons - 8
Crits - 4
Heat - .3 per shot
Damage - 2 per shot
Fire Rate - 1 shot per .25 second
Cooldown - 2 seconds before cooldown bar begins to drain, up to 6 seconds constant fire before reaching the point of jamming. A Jam takes 6 seconds to clear before the bar begins to cooldown; and firing cannot happen until the weapon has completely cooled down.
Range - 750m Optimum, 1500m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 90

IS Rotary AC/5 (Dynamic Visual of IS/Clan Ultra AC/5, no new art required):
Tons - 10
Crits - 6
Heat - .5 per shot
Damage - 5 per shot
Fire Rate - 1 shot per .5 second
Cooldown - 2 seconds before cooldown bar begins to drain, up to 6 seconds constant fire before reaching the point of jamming. A Jam takes 6 seconds to clear before the bar begins to cooldown; and firing cannot happen until the weapon has completely cooled down.
Range - 450m Optimum, 900m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 40

IS Rotary AC/5 (Dynamic Visual of IS/Clan Ultra AC/5, no new art required):
Tons - 10
Crits - 8
Heat - .75 per shot
Damage - 5 per shot
Fire Rate - 1 shot per .5 second
Cooldown - 2 seconds before cooldown bar begins to drain, up to 6 seconds constant fire before reaching the point of jamming. A Jam takes 6 seconds to clear before the bar begins to cooldown; and firing cannot happen until the weapon has completely cooled down.
Range - 630m Optimum, 1260m Maximum
Ammo/Ton - 40

The end result is that we’ve created extremely high DPS that can be fired in controlled bursts. While some of the highest DPS in the game, the bursts are not infinite, the ammo consumption is high, the heat is high for ballistics, the damage is spread, and the consequences for pushing the weapon systems too far is dire (12 seconds total between unjam and complete cooldown). Also, the weapon system requires constant face-time. This makes the weapon have a unique function and distinct pros/cons for selection . . . but the DPS output can certainly be considered worth all of the drawbacks.

27. Either Tech - Flamer Series:

Spoiler

I'm adding these weapons because Flamers are my babies. They're my favorite weapons of Battletech and I can wish that the other varieties of Flamers make their way into MWO. Not only do the standard Flamer still need to be fixed and brought into the fold and function of all the other weapons of MWO, but unlike other weapon families the Flamer series of weapons all have starkly different functionality.

Standard Flamer (IS and Clan)
Tons - 1 (IS) and .5 (Clan)
Crits - 1
Heat - 1.0 per second
Damage - 1.0 per second
Heat Damage - 2.0 per second
Fire Rate - Continuous Stream
Range - 90m
Note: I've outlined why this fix is good for MWO numerous times. Flat fixed values subvert all of the convoluted mechanics that are not explained to the average player who doesn't frequent the forums and no obscure HUD elements that are backwards from every other weapon system are used. Also, the values fix the current broken issues with the Flamer that caused the convoluted layers of extra mechanics in the first place.

ER Flamer (Both Tech Bases)
Tons - 1
Crits - 1
Heat - 1.5 per second
Damage - 1.0 per second
Heat Damage - 2.0 per second
Fire Rate - Continuous Stream
Range - 210m
Note: The ER Flamer actually has the exact same stats for IS and Clan in TT, and I think that'll work just fine here. Gaining over double the range of the standard Flamer is worth the heat price to pay in MWO, but unlike TT we wouldn't want to sacrifice heat damage because that would leave the weapon in an unusable state. The simple adjustment for the ER Flamer allows it to stand out as an option to really reach out and do both physical and heat damage, but you give up some of the heat damage benefits, overall, with the greater rate of heat buildup. In effect it'd have the same effects as the TT weapon stats.

Heavy Flamer (Both Tech Bases)
Tons - 1.5
Crits - 1
Heat - 2.0 HPS
Damage - 4.0 DPS
Heat Damage - 4.0 Heat DPS
Fire Rate - Continuous Stream, 1 ammo per .1 second fire time, minimum .1 second fire.
Range - 120m
Ammo/Ton - 100 (basically equivalent to the 10 shots of TT using Machine Gun ammo/ton conversions for a basis).
Note: There are two facets of note here. One is that this Flamer needs ammo to function. For MWO that means we need to push the envelope a bit more to make up for this; and the extremely limited ammo needs to be put to good use. Second is that for Battletech the Heavy Flamer consumed its own ammunition supply because it was a blanket improvement on every facet of a standard Flamer. For MWO this thing is putting out the DPS of an AC/10 and causing incredible Heat DPS on the target (enough to overpower 10 true-dub heat sinks and STILL inflict 2.0 Heat DPS on the target with just one of these Heavy Flamers). That needs to come at an extreme cost, and that's what the highly limited ammunition supply does. However, it also provides one hell of a close-range Armor Melter.

While these flesh out the family of Flamer weapons, it's again worth noting that the Heavy Flamer in particular is an entirely different beast from the other Flamer types. That alone makes it an interesting and unique weapon to add to MWO. There really is nothing in MWO that's such a close-range high DPS weapon. Even if the ER version of the weapon is ignored (possibly understandable given that increasing the Flamer visual effect to 210m ranges might be absurd looking) the Heavy Flamer should be taken into serious consideration.

Any and all constructive feedback and discussion would be greatly appreciated. Remember, this is theorycrafting and attempting to get more equipment (for the present and future) into MWO in as simple of methods as possible. We don't need to throw huge piles of massively complex or complicated mechanics onto things that have simple options of implementation. Also, again remember that the numbers are for example and discussion purposes, only, and are not absolute definitive numbers that I’m demanding be put in place.

Edited by Sereglach, 13 January 2017 - 09:51 PM.

[Sereglach]

Over a week and not a single comment. I guess I should be surprised, but I'm not.

Regardless, I figured I'd put up all my personal notes on how to implement lots of Battletech equipment in as simple of ways as possible. Here's hoping that at least the devs take note of it at some point.

[Odanan]

Thanks for compiling that info.

My thoughts are:

Some weapons are way out of timeline now, but if PGI is really going to add MW4 mechs next year, I suppose they will be jumping to the 3060s.

Well, I've been advocating for new weapons for some time, specially the mech Rifles, Mortars and Laser AMS. I think those would be pretty interesting in the game.

• Mech Rifles: low weight ballistics - a great option for lighter mechs. Since the IS autocannons behave like these rifles should (single round), PGI could give them a different flavor: make them much like some light cannons of real life (can quickly shot some rounds and then have a long reloading of the "magazine").
  
• Mech Mortars: no need to add any special mechanic. Fire in arc much like the LRMs, but without lock or guidance.
  
• Laser Anti-Missile System: an interesting choice for those who don't want to carry ammo (and have cool loadouts).

All those three are available in our current timeline (LAMS only for the Clans right now).

Some weapons, like the Rotary Autocannon, were terribly balanced (meaning not balanced at all) in TT (and not very well implemented in the MW4 iterations). I don't see how an UAC that can re-shot 3x more could work in MWO, even if the jamming chance was absurd.
Some weapons/tech don't add anything new (like the HAG or the Rocket launchers - which are basically how the semi-guided SRMs were implemented in MWO) or would just make others obsolete, without a necessary trade-off (like the Angel ECM).
And finally, some weapons would require a lot of coding and changes, like the ATMs.

About the futuretech equipment (new types of armor and engines), I find them very interesting and hope PGI adds them to the game when the time jump is done.

Edited by Odanan, 20 October 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 20 October 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Thanks for compiling that info.

Glad someone finds it useful. Thank you for taking note. I know it's a lot, but maybe PGI can find some useful items in there. I tried to keep implementations of some things as simple as possible, but PGI really needs to start thinking about these things now instead of 3 months before they want to implement any of it (like with the Clans).

Odanan, on 20 October 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Some weapons are way out of timeline now, but if PGI is really going to add MW4 mechs next year, I suppose they will be jumping to the 3060s.

That's one reason why I said that even if PGI is going to wait on some of the weapons/equipment, it's at least worthwhile -now- to look at simple, reasonable, and balanaced solutions for implementing the equipment well in advance. I think had PGI taken that approach long ago, we would have been in a much better place the second the clans were released, instead of deciding to release the mechs/tech first and then deciding to try to figure out how to balance it.

Odanan, on 20 October 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Well, I've been advocating for new weapons for some time, specially the mech Rifles, Mortars and Laser AMS. I think those would be pretty interesting in the game.

• Mech Rifles: low weight ballistics - a great option for lighter mechs. Since the IS autocannons behave like these rifles should (single round), PGI could give them a different flavor: make them much like some light cannons of real life (can quickly shot some rounds and then it has a long reloading of the "magazine").
  
• Mech Mortars: no need to add any special mechanic. Fire in arc much like the LRMs, but without lock or guidance.
  
• Laser Anti-Missile System: an interesting choice for those who don't want to carry ammo (and have cool loadouts).

All those three are available in our current timeline (LAMS only for the Clans right now).

Interesting concepts for some of the stuff.

If you look at what I've mentioned a little more closely I put the mech Rifles as reasonably close to their TT implementation, but focused on their "cheap" implementation to just make them a bit less DPS oriented compared to the autocannon counterparts. Great burst damage for an ambush, but not really sustainable DPS in a brawl. I suppose our concepts are similar in that way. It would be interesting to sit down and hash out the two concepts and see how they'd compare.

Mortars aren't really a special mechanic, they fire like LRM's (lore even says they're guided mortars) but really high arcs, fast flight speed, and AMS doesn't affect them. Those advantages are easily offset with very long reload times that emphasizes their support role.

LAMS . . . yeah . . . just needs to happen. Some of the 2 and 3 AMS capable mechs out there could really lay down some missile suppression if they didn't have to worry about ammo stores getting burned up within 2 minutes of the fight.

Odanan, on 20 October 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

Some weapons, like the Rotary Autocannon, were terribly balanced (meaning not balanced at all) in TT (and not very well implemented in the MW4 iterations). I don't see how an UAC that can re-shot 3x more could work in MWO, even if the jamming chance was absurd.
Some weapons/tech don't add anything new (like the HAG or the Rocket launchers - which are basically how the semi-guided SRMs were implemented in MWO) or would just make others obsolete, without a necessary trade-off (like the Angel ECM).
And finally, some weapons would require a lot of coding and changes, like the ATMs.

If you look at what I did for the Rotary autocannons in detail, you might think otherwise. They'd make amazing burst-weapon options, but would still be out-DPS'd in extended engagements due to the way the jamming would work. However, I completely agree that they were broken in TT . . . but one of the biggest reasons they were made broken was because the potency of energy weapons had gotten completely out of control by that point.

While some weapons really don't bring a *lot* to the table, they can still be implemented in reasonable fashion without too much effort. That's one reason why I mention them as I do. It also allows for PGI to actually get the tech in game and not have to make quite as many apocryphal variants just to keep from having to implement new tech.

Angel ECM doesn't need to make Guardian/Clan ECM obsolete, and I also outline how that can be done as long as PGI implements the ECM fix that we know they already have. It was part of the big mech rebalance PTS runs, if you remember those.

Lastly, you're overthinking the ATM's and MML's . . . PGI could easily crank them out without any special coding or multiple ammo types. They've already got the code for damage loss over range. All PGI needs to do is shift it to missile weapons and create quick drops at various range increments instead of the extended drop-off . . . not unlike the clan's LRM "wind-up" when within 90m. That tech makes lots of weapons like Heavy/Snub PPC's, Heavy Gauss, and the aforementioned missile launchers all easily viable.

Odanan, on 20 October 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

About the futuretech equipment (new types of armor and engines), I find them very interesting and hope PGI add them to the game when the time jump is done.

Same, and they're just too easy to implement. XL Gyros, Small Cockpits, XXL Engines (not on the list and not needed, the TT implementation can be carried over as-is), and all the armor types would go a long way to bring some much needed defensive options into the game.

[a gaijin]

No new weapons or tech should be added and here's why:

PGI has not been able to correctly balance the already implemented weapons/tech and they've been tweaking/peaking and trying to balance them since 2012!
Unsuccessfully.

As much as I like MWO and give PGI an 'A' for effort, it is utter nonsense to add more workload to the apparently already full plate.

Instead of adding more weapons or mechs PGI should be focused on adding more interesting play modes and streamlining what's already in the game.

Edited by Lone Wanderer, 20 October 2016 - 07:59 PM.

[Sereglach]

Lone Wanderer, on 20 October 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

No new weapons or tech should be added and here's why:

PGI has not been able to correctly balance the already implemented weapons/tech and they've been tweaking/peaking and trying to balance them since 2012!
Unsuccessfully.

As much as I like MWO and give PGI an 'A' for effort, it is utter nonsense to add more workload to the apparently already full plate.

Instead of adding more weapons or mechs PGI should be focused on adding more interesting play modes and streamlining what's already in the game.

Funny enough, but balance concepts are already basically taken care of in most of the suggestions given, so there's no reason to dismiss it outright just because of that.

Also, the people (namely Paul Inouye) tweaking/designing weapon and equipment stats aren't the same people designing game modes or the maps that go with them. Again, no reason to dismiss looking at weapons or equipment outright, especially when I take the time to keep the suggestions as simple to implement as possible.

It's like the development and releasing of mech packs. It's never going to end because, 1. it's their revenue stream and 2. it's completely unrelated to anything else. In this case game balance can and should continue to go on even when map and game mode designers are working elsewhere. We just won't see most of this equipment implemented anytime soon because a lot of it (most) is still outside PGI's currently declared timeline. However, that will change; and this tech will be needed when that time comes.

Just because your opinions on what PGI should be doing lie somewhere that's completely unrelated to the thread doesn't mean the contents of the thread should be dismissed outright.

Edited by Sereglach, 20 October 2016 - 09:19 PM.

[a gaijin]

More play modes actually adds *more fun* to this game than adding more variety to the already satisfactory amount of weapon systems.

I'd spend real world $$ for more play modes.

I would *not* spend that for more weapon systems, more stupid quirk tweaks, additonal inane modules, or more mechs. Though out of all those a few more mechs would be easiest to implement and might generate some real-world revenue.

Better mission-based (as in copying missions from legacy MW games) play modes would be worth $$ to me and I imagine other peple that miss feeling like they were playing an actual MW game in the BT universe circa Refusal War/Twilight of the Clans era.

Adding more weapon systems to MechWarrior team Deathmatch doesn't actually help anything or make the game better.
But adding fun play modes does. It's as simple as that.

Edited due to spelling errors. Thanks to siri's awesome auto"correct."

Edited by Lone Wanderer, 20 October 2016 - 09:48 PM.

[Sereglach]

Lone Wanderer, on 20 October 2016 - 09:46 PM, said:

More play modes actually adds *more fun* to this game than adding more variety to the already satisfactory amount of weapon systems.

I'd spend real world $$ for more play modes.

I would *not* spend that for more weapon systems, more stupid quirk tweaks, additonal inane modules, or more mechs. Though out of all those a few more mechs would be easiest to implement and might generate some real-world revenue.

Better mission-based (as in copying missions from legacy MW games) play modes would be worth $$ to me and I imagine other peple that miss feeling like they were playing an actual MW game in the BT universe circa Refusal War/Twilight of the Clans era.

Adding more weapon systems to MechWarrior team Deathmatch doesn't actually help anything or make the game better.
But adding fun play modes does. It's as simple as that.

Edited due to spelling errors. Thanks to siri's awesome auto"correct."

No offense, but you're missing the point, good sir or ma'am.

1. What you're talking about doesn't match up with PGI's revenue system, period. They make money off mechs, and that is it. They won't make people buy maps because then it causes problems with segregating their player-base. Think what happened to the Halo series where the base gets segregated based on who does or doesn't buy map packs. Granted, Halo can afford that, but MWO can't.

2. Again, the people working on weapons, equipment, quirks, and anything else for balance tuning have NOTHING to do with making the game modes or mechs. They're completely independent. It's just like the fact that you can't take a UI engineer and suddenly have them start working on making maps. They're independent from one another.

3. PGI makes money off mechs; and eventually they're going to run out of mechs that are available in timeline. Therefore PGI will need to push the timeline forward to continue putting out mechs and making money. When they do that they're going to need the tech in game to make the mechs. It's like what happened with the Clans. New weapons and equipment are inevitable. It's better for PGI to have plans that will be reasonably balanced, in advance, then to have a panicked move to push the equipment into the game with haphazard balancing right before it's released . . . like what happened with the Clans and "basic" Clan technology.

Therefore, regardless of what you *want* to spend money on, that's not what PGI uses for revenue. Just imagine if Skirmish and Domination needed to be bought in order to play them in MWO. The player base would be segregated by the people who do or don't have the game modes bought. However, for people who want to support PGI's development of game modes, they buy mech packs; and those mech packs will eventually require the new equipment that goes into making those mechs work.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Now, with that said, I cordially request bringing the conversation back on topic. If you have feedback on the types of equipment mentioned in the OP, then please comment on it. If all you want to do is advocate for other game modes, I cordially request taking up that conversation in an appropriate thread.

Edited by Sereglach, 21 October 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[a gaijin]

Good reply, but no joy.

Topic is pointless. Does not add anything good to the game.

[Sereglach]

Lone Wanderer, on 21 October 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

Good reply, but no joy.

Topic is pointless. Does not add anything good to the game.

I asked nicely, but apparently that didn't get through.

This is a thread about weapons and equipment, not whatever you want and demand. You've got your threads. Stick to them, and don't waste time in this one, unless you have something constructive to add. However, given how you've been copy/pasting the same useless reply into every thread that isn't about what you want, I already know that you have nothing useful to add.

Therefore . . . get lost.

----------------------------------------------------------------

There's actually quite a slew of people who are angry that PGI has been making non-canon variants of recent mechs specifically because they're refusing to add mechs with new tech.

However, they're running out of viable options for even half-canon mech releases. Eventually they'll bump the timeline, which means they'll need to introduce the technology that goes with it.

Also there's a lot of people who just want the new tech, period, so there's more to play with then the same limited weapon systems and equipment we already have.

The premise of the thread is to actually discuss reasonable ways of doing that.

[Sereglach]

While it has been quite some time, I figured it'd be worth bringing this thread back up to try and renew discussion on tech for MWO. With PGI's official announcement that the timeline is advancing and that new tech is coming, the implementation of any tech should be taken into serious consideration as to how it can be implemented with as little headache as possible and with balance being an utmost concern.

Again, any and all constructive discussion is very welcome.

[Willothius]

Interesting suggestions, although my general response to many of these would be:
If it doesn't really add something new, why bother...?
I get that you've taken 'easy to implement' as a general guidline, but there's just so much more to do with this stuff if you're a bit creative and think out-of-the-box, even with mechanics that are already in-game now!
Also, I'm kinda ignoring Lore/TT here, as that's what PGI is already doing with their weapons anyway.

So, find below my own replies and thoughts!

1. IS Tech - Mech Rifles:
2. IS Tech - Magshot:
14. Clan Tech - Anit-Personnel (AP) Gauss Rifle:
SMALL BALLISTICS!
Lighter ballistics indeed really could use some gaps filled.
Could be as straightforward as these, nothing fancy required, just a few extra flavours to fill the gap of lightweight options for Ballistic hardpoints!

3. IS Tech - Rocker Launchers:
5. IS Tech - MRM Systems:
6. IS Tech - MML Systems:
12. Clan Tech - ATM Systems:
15. Either Tech - Mech Mortars:
MISSILES!
My opinion: having more missile based weapons would only be good if they truly bringsomething new to the table. Simply having "medium range" variants of what we already have..? meh.
Also the ammo-changeable things, would give nice new options, but I find it also a bit boring; It takes away from having to really choose your range/niche.
Here's an idea;

-Dumb-firing missiles, but able to lock trajectory AFTER they were fired.
Would give awesome new options, like corner firing/arcing! Would have to be medium range, fitting in between SRMs and LRMs not only in range/speed/damage, but also firing-mechanics!

4. IS Tech - Binary Laser Cannon (Nicknamed Blazer):
10. Clan Tech - Heavy Lasers:
11. Clan Tech - Micro Lasers:
LAZORS!
If you're gonna add a bunch of lasers but stick to the same boring heat/dmg/duration flavours, why bother? we've got most of the grounds covered, they don't sound like truly adding new fighting mechanics, just.. more build options of the same (especially if we do get more IS ER lasers).

Instead, there's so much more you could do with them,
Here's an idea (actually what Pulse Laser should be doing, I think) of how an alternative firing mechanism could add something new to lasers:

1) Click-and-hold to start firing; very short, individual pulses, a bit further apart then the current SPL/MPL/LPL line, but without the 'classic' cooldown before you can refire. Very high DPS, but massive heat buildup! Release click to stop the pulse-flow.

2) Another option is a recharge mechanics similar to JumpJets; Keep firing those pulses fast, but that drains your bar.

3) Could even go for a miniature version of the Gauss-charge mechanics; keep trigger pushed to charge several pulses, releasing them in bigger burst than simply singel-clicking fire button.

All methods give you an option to fire pulses in a way more controlled, pin-point way, that's pretty easy to implement, but a total new experience, rather than just having a 'normal' laser with a slightly different duration/range/heat.

7. IS Tech - Light/Heavy/Snub PPC:
8. IS Tech - Light/Heavy Gauss:
This I would love to see as regular expansion of the current weapon-palette!
(along with other regular expansions expansions like more IS UACs and LBXs)

9. IS Tech - Light Fusion Engion (LFE)
Hmm, I kinda like the current all-or-nothing option that regular IS XL poses, but I guess it could be a nice middleground, although very hard to balance this so it's not simply superior over STD engines..

18. Either Tech - Hardened Armor:
19. Either Tech - Reactive Armor:
20. Either Tech - Reflective Armor:
21. Either Tech - Stealth Armor:
ARMOUR!
Adding some of these could really nicely bring out the whole rock-paper-siccors mechanism!
(You pick reactive armour and go for the SRM brawlers, but damni, now you're getting picked apart by some ERLL snipers!)
Only Stealth I don't see adding much. rest almost seems ready to drop in a PTS right away!

22. Either Tech - Laser Anti-Missile System (LAMS):
23. Either Tech - Angel ECM:
24. Either Tech - Bloodhound Active Probe:
HI-TECH STUFF!
All of these are probably way too complex to be added currently.
Not to implement (well.. it's PGI so..) but they just wouldn't bring much actually new to the game, just more intricate variations on the same.

26. Either Tech - Rotary Autocannons:
This also sounds great! Instead of the shotgun LBXs or PinPoint regular ACs you get a stream of slugs. Sounds very much like clan ACs right now, but I see this could really bring something nice to the table. Actually, this is what I also meant by my Pulse Laser charge-thingy suggestion above..

Edited by Willothius, 14 January 2017 - 08:50 AM.

[Sereglach]

Willothius, on 14 January 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

*snip*

This is some interesting feedback to give. Thank you, first and foremost, for the time and consideration.

A lot of your feedback puts us at a point of opinion differentiations. Some of the things, which you're saying won't do anything unique, others (myself included) feel that they do add unique flavors to the game. That's just a matter of personal taste and we can parse those all day. That's not a bad thing, as it were, because we can look those over and try to find things that provide the most amount of people with the most amount of viable choices. After all, if someone really doesn't like something, in the end, then all they have to do is just not mount it on their mechs.

However, to hit on some of the bigger points you've made; and show how it becomes a matter of differing opinions:

1. I'm trying to keep things simple, and I've outlined the core TT conversion necessities that would need to occur for PGI to be able to successfully implement the weapons and equipment into MWO. However any extra gameplay features would need to be taken into stark consideration for weapon balance overall. Some "unique" feature could inadvertently create an absolutely broken feature that upsets game balance.

2. There are many ways the various missile systems could be handled. Maybe MRM's (or any of the others mentioned), after shot, follow your cursor to the best of their ability, but they have low agility. Touching on the end of point 1, if you give any crosshair tracking missile too much agility then you create a horribly broken weapon system. Also, crosshair tracking can cause a huge problem if you've got missiles and ballistics; and you're trying to lead your ballistic shots while still trying to guide in those crosshair-tracking missiles (ever count how long it takes LRM's to travel 600m? yikes). Yes, it's unique, but it gets really complex really fast; and it might not end up as fun as you think.

3. For Lasers PGI has stuck to a very simple formula. Trust me, myself and others have advocated for things like Pulse Laser overhauls for ages. I'd love to see Pulse Lasers that fired more like the energy machine guns that they're supposed to be (MW4 actually did a pretty good job with that), but we don't have that, here. If PGI were to budge on that stance (they started to in the Energy Draw PTS runs) then I think there's a lot of potential for PGI. However, some of the lasers mentioned do fill tonnage and weapon-style gaps that we really don't have right now. Thusly, even if they follow PGI's rather mundane formula, they still serve a purpose. I agree that there are MANY cool things that could be done to lasers to make each system unique and awesome, but PGI hasn't done it, so we just have to work with what we've got.

4. The LFE provides the IS with a stark 3-engine choice structure; and there are a lot of people clamoring to get their hands on it (some see it as the messiah of Clan/IS balance). STD = Most survivability, LFE = Clan XL survivability but only half the weight-saving benefits of XL, and XL = Most weight savings, but fragile. Many lights will probably still stick to XL engines (particularly scouts like the Raven 3L), as well as any mech that's just a CT magnet or is heavy fire-support. Big Brawlers get put in a precarious choice of STD vs. LFE, because if you have the hardpoints then being a zombie still means you're doing damage and being a threat; and that can mean the difference between a win or loss for your team.

5. Stealth armor could add a LOT to the game, but it also depends on PGI fixing ECM to function how it should (not the magic-Jesus-box of invisibility). PGI showed they have a fix for ECM waiting, but that they were waiting on "InfoTech" to get where they wanted it before releasing. Granted, if ECM isn't fixed, then Stealth armor really doesn't add much OR PGI would need to find some new use for it. In addition to this, Bloodhound Probe and Angel ECM also rely on a proper ECM fix for MWO, to an extent, but even then I've outlined other possible uses that really do provide some unique gameplay options (Bloodhound tracking targets 360 degrees and outside LOS for example). Regardless, some mechs would require Stealth Armor to be in game to be implemented; and there are some people who really want those mechs.

6. Laser AMS really should just happen, especially how some AMS heavy chassis (some clans can get 3 AMS systems) can burn through many tons of ammo when providing an AMS umbrella for their team. While you think it's just a "more intricate variation" that's actually a distinct choice of ammo or heat as well as longevity of the system. Otherwise, is it really a choice between "Dakka" vs. "Laser Vomit" in gameplay, or are they just variations of the same thing? The answer to that is going to just be a matter of opinion to most people especially because everything is doing the same kinds of damage to generic "HP values" of armor.

Regardless, it'll be fascinating to see how PGI overcomes a lot of the hurdles both of us bring up. There's a lot PGI could do to add a lot of variety to the game; and some things could just end up being "more of the same" to some people.

Thank you again for the feedback and feel free to keep the discussion going. The insight and different perspective is appreciated.

[Willothius]

Nice stuff, I like theory-stomping

Sereglach, on 14 January 2017 - 09:59 AM, said:

This is some interesting feedback to give. Thank you, first and foremost, for the time and consideration.

../..

2. There are many ways the various missile systems could be handled. Maybe MRM's (or any of the others mentioned), after shot, follow your cursor to the best of their ability, but they have low agility. Touching on the end of point 1, if you give any crosshair tracking missile too much agility then you create a horribly broken weapon system. Also, crosshair tracking can cause a huge problem if you've got missiles and ballistics; and you're trying to lead your ballistic shots while still trying to guide in those crosshair-tracking missiles (ever count how long it takes LRM's to travel 600m? yikes). Yes, it's unique, but it gets really complex really fast; and it might not end up as fun as you think.

I'm quite sure this kind of weapon is easily tuneable to not be OP, even IF the missiles track way too much; you could always offset it's OP-ness easily by just increasing cooldown/heat er something (besides tuning missiles velocity or agility, obviously).
And about it being complex to handle, well, it's arguably pretty straightforward if you just aim up and let lose ze missiles, then continue fighting while keeping the enemy in your crosshairs; you don't really have to think abuot it and your missiles will converge and that enemy.. I can see this be quite fun!
Plus, I'm looking forward to a few new, challenging ways to fight, other than the obvious point-and-click adventures

Quote

3. For Lasers PGI has stuck to a very simple formula. Trust me, myself and others have advocated for things like Pulse Laser overhauls for ages. I'd love to see Pulse Lasers that fired more like the energy machine guns that they're supposed to be (MW4 actually did a pretty good job with that), but we don't have that, here. If PGI were to budge on that stance (they started to in the Energy Draw PTS runs) then I think there's a lot of potential for PGI. However, some of the lasers mentioned do fill tonnage and weapon-style gaps that we really don't have right now. Thusly, even if they follow PGI's rather mundane formula, they still serve a purpose. I agree that there are MANY cool things that could be done to lasers to make each system unique and awesome, but PGI hasn't done it, so we just have to work with what we've got.

Well, the fact that PGI isn't doing a good enough job is no reason to settle for less already beforehand
Why not aim high, feed em awesome ideas, who knows they might get inspired!

Quote

4. The LFE provides the IS with a stark 3-engine choice structure; and there are a lot of people clamoring to get their hands on it (some see it as the messiah of Clan/IS balance). STD = Most survivability, LFE = Clan XL survivability but only half the weight-saving benefits of XL, and XL = Most weight savings, but fragile. Many lights will probably still stick to XL engines (particularly scouts like the Raven 3L), as well as any mech that's just a CT magnet or is heavy fire-support. Big Brawlers get put in a precarious choice of STD vs. LFE, because if you have the hardpoints then being a zombie still means you're doing damage and being a threat; and that can mean the difference between a win or loss for your team.

I know I would instantly replace all my STD builds with this, as it saves some weight, and after losing the 2nd ST it's pretty much over anyway, so no point in stayin alive much longer than that
(It'll be great for some assymmetric builds too!)

[SockSlayer]

All Flamers types, plasma cannons, rocket launchers, and some ballistics between mg and ac2, this would be quite the interesting game!

[Sereglach]

Willothius, on 14 January 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

I'm quite sure this kind of weapon is easily tuneable to not be OP, even IF the missiles track way too much; you could always offset it's OP-ness easily by just increasing cooldown/heat er something (besides tuning missiles velocity or agility, obviously).
And about it being complex to handle, well, it's arguably pretty straightforward if you just aim up and let lose ze missiles, then continue fighting while keeping the enemy in your crosshairs; you don't really have to think abuot it and your missiles will converge and that enemy.. I can see this be quite fun!
Plus, I'm looking forward to a few new, challenging ways to fight, other than the obvious point-and-click adventures

You're forgetting a point I made, though. Again, while it's not impossible for cursor/crosshair following missiles to be implemented (we have no idea how complex it is for them to do, however), what do you do when you've got ballistics and you must LEAD your target. Your crosshairs aren't on your target, they're technically pointing off in the distance at whatever is behind and to the side of your target while anticipating where the enemy will be by the time your projectile gets there; and the missiles would thereby be guiding themselves to that location . . . not your target.

Even if fun to use such weapons, they only become viable for use with hit-scan lasers instead of projectile launching ballistics. That doesn't even really allow people to mix and match as they please, but forces them into specific builds. If the weapon systems are too OP, then no one will touch ballistics, because you'll want Lasers to coincide with your crosshair-tracking missiles.

Then you get into balancing such a weapon system. If you make such missiles too agile then why use Streaks? If their velocity is too low who would want to stare at their target all day while the missiles get there (it can already take LRMs 6-8 seconds to reach targets at longer ranges)? If the cooldown is too long why not just take LRMs or Streaks? If their guidance is too pinpoint and they're just fast enough to use in a brawl, then why use SRM's?

While it's neat and unique to have something that follows the crosshair, it gets really tricky to balance with everything else in the game; and it's even harder to prevent it from invalidating certain builds or other equipment.

Willothius, on 14 January 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

Well, the fact that PGI isn't doing a good enough job is no reason to settle for less already beforehand
Why not aim high, feed em awesome ideas, who knows they might get inspired!

The kicker is that we HAVE been advocating for more and greater changes/differentiation to the laser weapons for a LONG time. PGI has made it pretty clear that they're NOT doing them, at least not yet, anyway. PGI started to actually tinker with more facets of weapons to provide more starkly different lasers in the last Energy Draw PTS runs, but they got cold feet and backed out. One of the reasons was because too many people didn't want to see weapons change from what they are now.

MAYBE if weapons such as X-Pulse Lasers or Variable-Speed Pulse Lasers come out we MIGHT see those have a more drastic deviation from standard pulse lasers and PGI's standard formulas for lasers, but it's a long hope.

Also, I really didn't touch on Pulse Lasers much in this article because there weren't really much in the way of new ones on the list. However, if you look at my Micro Lasers you'll notice that the Pulse and ER do fire quite differently when compared to each other.

Willothius, on 14 January 2017 - 02:08 PM, said:

I know I would instantly replace all my STD builds with this, as it saves some weight, and after losing the 2nd ST it's pretty much over anyway, so no point in stayin alive much longer than that
(It'll be great for some assymmetric builds too!)

Yes, but regardless of some people's opinions zombie mechs are still quite dangerous. They're just not piloted as much anymore because of the high Alpha Meta.

Also, that's just an opinion of what YOU would do, not necessarily everyone else. Would you downgrade a Raven 3L to a LFE when you're primarily scouting/spotting and probably using longer range weapons? Would you use a LFE instead of a STD on any of the Atlas variants that are ST magnets but have CT hardpoints? Would you still use a LFE instead of an XL on any of the very XL friendly chassis that have very little Side Torso but bigger CT targets (Jenner, Dragon, etc.)? Do you think no one would ever run a Zombie build again? I bet there are plenty of people who'd still rather have a XL or STD in those builds instead of a LFE. Everyone will build different mechs with different engines to suit their desires and preferred builds. That's part of the benefit of more options and choices.

I think one of my only engine concerns would be if they add the XXL engines to IS and Clan. The IS already die if they lose a ST, so if you've got the crits an XXL engine would be the way to go, period. However, at least for Clans they'd actually have a sincere choice for Battlemechs on whether they want to die after a single ST loss or not; but any Omnis that come with a fixed XXL might not go over well if not "meta" enough.

Edited by Sereglach, 14 January 2017 - 07:37 PM.

[WolvesX]

Thank you!

[Marius Romanis]

I find all the "wont need new artwork" comments in OP hilarious. Since making things pretty is what PGI is good at, and programming new stuff without a billion bugs going to live is what theyre bad at.

[Sereglach]

CadoAzazel, on 15 January 2017 - 04:12 AM, said:

I find all the "wont need new artwork" comments in OP hilarious. Since making things pretty is what PGI is good at, and programming new stuff without a billion bugs going to live is what theyre bad at.

Yes, but there is a bit of irony to it. Any new artwork that PGI would create would need to be retrofitted to every chassis that's already in the game in every hardpoint position compatible. That's a LOT of work . . . just look at how long it's taking them to get all of the chassis caught up on just the camo patterns. Now just imagine that new missile boxes or ballistic housings would need to go through modeling for the chassis AND would need to be touched up for the camo patterns (Kintaro is a great example given how its missile-boxes on the arms function).

If they don't have to do something new from the ground up, then it saves them all that hassle and makes them more inclined to do it. Reusing old missile boxes and possibly adjusting a tube-count or taking an already existing AC barrel and shrinking it for a Mech Rifle is the exact reason PGI might be more inclined to implement some of those weapons. It's an easy win; and everyone loves easy wins.

Edited by Sereglach, 15 January 2017 - 07:56 AM.

[AngrySpartan]

Nice theory crafting, especially the treatment of MMLs and ATMs. Seriously, this topic requires some more attention, did you consider to repost it in the general discussion thread? That's waaay more populated than the suggestion's subforum.

Also worth noting:
1. ATMs have integral Artemis IV, thus their spread should at least match comparable existing launchers.
2. Clan Streak LRMs became available at 3057 (though still considered experimental tech that time). They weight twice more than regular C-LRMs (thus exactly the same as IS tech LRMs), not compatible with Artemis and can-not fire indirectly. Considering PGI won't bother fixing today's MWO LRMs, Streak-LRMs can have steeper missile trajectory and huge velocity, comparable to AC's, like 400-600m/s. Range should be reduced to TT 630m's though.

Edited by AngrySpartan, 17 January 2017 - 04:31 AM.