118 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

Transverse sales pitch: “Hey guys, so I was like, ‘Let’s make a game that doesn’t have NPC’s’ and I was like, whoa, and now here we are asking for millions of $, and we’ve chosen crowd funding because Star Citizen jackpot.”


The main problem was that Transverse was proposing a radical and abstract idea with minimal credibility to back up the vision. With confusing stretch goals that revolved around making the game, rather than enhancing it, the whole campaign became an embarrassment. The understanding behind what makes crowd funding successful was completely void with Transverse. Stretch goals are basically “wish-list” items. Combat and Flight stretch goals for a space game aren’t “wish-list”. That’s its back bone. Not to mention the amount of money they were asking for. You don’t ask for that kind of money out of the gate, with nothing to show for it beside a teaser cinematic and concept art. If you want to get into crowdfunding, you need to provide a proof of concept, or have a reputation that will back you up.

If they want to get a Transverse app off the ground, the first thing they should do is actually build a solid foundation for the game first, and not ask for asinine amounts of money to design the foundation of the game. There's no reason a Transverse mobile game app can't work, it's just a question of how much does PGI want to try and invest into it? If it's minimal effort and expecting to be walked around while sitting on a throne being fed grapes, then, well, maybe it won't go as well as it could.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 07 October 2016 - 11:25 AM.

[Mole]

MoonUnitBeta, on 07 October 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

Transverse sales pitch: “Hey guys, so I was like, ‘Let’s make a game that doesn’t have NPC’s’ and I was like, whoa, and now here we are asking for millions of $, and we’ve chosen crowd funding because Star Citizen jackpot.”


The main problem was that Transverse was proposing a radical and abstract idea with minimal credibility to back up the vision. With confusing stretch goals that revolved around making the game, rather than enhancing it, the whole campaign became an embarrassment. The lack of understanding behind what makes crowd funding successful was completely void with Transverse. Stretch goals are basically “wish-list” items. Combat and Flight stretch goals for a space game aren’t “wish-list”. That’s its back bone. Not to mention the amount of money they were asking for. You don’t ask for that kind of money out of the gate, with nothing to show for it beside a teaser cinematic and concept art. If you want to get into crowdfunding, you need to provide a proof of concept, or have a reputation that will back you up.

If they want to get a Transverse app off the ground, the first thing they should do is actually build a solid foundation for the game first, and not ask for asinine amounts of money to design the foundation of the game.

I'm sure Transverse would have gone a bit better for them if they hadn't already established a questionable reputation as a game developer with MWO. If they want a better reputation to support future crowd funding they need to improve their reputation by showing they are a competent and good game developer with a product that they already have. So what they need to do is actually pull MWO out of the mud and spiff it up into a nice, well-done game and cut the zero communication "EVERYTHING IS TOP SECRET!!!!111one" crap until people have regained some form of faith in them and then try again. As it stands, nobody trusts them to be honest or competent.

Edited by Mole, 07 October 2016 - 11:18 AM.

[TKSax]

CapperDeluxe, on 07 October 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

Pretty sure that was an IGP thing, not a PGI thing.

Transverse was all PGI, it happen after PGI separated from IGP and IGP went Bankrupt.

[Lostdragon]

If you think most of the money PGI is making on MWO isn't going to an unannounced sooper dooper secret project I have some ocean front property in Arizona to sell you. There is no way they have sold so much and done so little while reinvesting in MWO, even PGI isn't that terrible (I think).

[Bishop Steiner]

Mole, on 07 October 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm sure Transverse would have gone a bit better for them if they hadn't already established a questionable reputation as a game developer with MWO. If they want a better reputation to support future crowd funding they need to improve their reputation by showing they are a competent and good game developer with a product that they already have. So what they need to do is actually pull MWO out of the mud and spiff it up into a nice, well-done game and cut the zero communication "EVERYTHING IS TOP SECRET!!!!111one" crap until people have regained some form of faith in them and then try again. As it stands, nobody trusts them to be honest or competent.

Timing was a huge issue. Beginning of 2014 was a horrible choice, after the fallout of 2013. It also further demonstrated just how tone deaf they actually were to their customer base, as only PGI could actually assume they had enough customer support and loyalty after the abject cluster**** of 2013, on ALL fronts.

What's worse is it just further undermined their attempts to regain core trust and confidence HERE. Had they shown better timing, planning and well, had a track record of delivering (so where is CW again???? People asked at the time) what they already had promised.......

I get they wanted to "grow" beyond just this IP. But even in that desire they showed how shortsighted they were... since this IP is literally the only thing of note on their ENTIRE resume. Wanting to grow beyond it is understandable, but know your limitations, and be honest with yourself.

Even had it been the Aerospace addition, tied globally to CW, that some even myself would have supported? I doubt they would have garnered enough support... and even if it did... history suggests we'd simply have TWO half finished minimally viable games, instead of one.

Seriously. This Game is OK, even with balance issues as a simple Unreal Tournament shooter. PGI has demonstrated time and again they are either unable or unwilling to truly grow it into something more. What I think would actualyl do them credit, would be to acknowledge that, and focus on the core of what it is, and what they do understand, drop FW, and focus on adding a true Solaris (both solo and free for all) mode. It would actually enhance it's viability as an Esport, and while some of the Reddiots would harp up "PGI failing"... I think it would actualyl demonstrate to many more customers a grasp of reality, finally, that PGI has consistently not shown up to this time.

And I say this as a guy who WANTS an immersive, true FW experience, and generally has no use for Esports.

[Mole]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 October 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Timing was a huge issue. Beginning of 2014 was a horrible choice, after the fallout of 2013. It also further demonstrated just how tone deaf they actually were to their customer base, as only PGI could actually assume they had enough customer support and loyalty after the abject cluster**** of 2013, on ALL fronts.

What's worse is it just further undermined their attempts to regain core trust and confidence HERE. Had they shown better timing, planning and well, had a track record of delivering (so where is CW again???? People asked at the time) what they already had promised.......

I get they wanted to "grow" beyond just this IP. But even in that desire they showed how shortsighted they were... since this IP is literally the only thing of note on their ENTIRE resume. Wanting to grow beyond it is understandable, but know your limitations, and be honest with yourself.

Even had it been the Aerospace addition, tied globally to CW, that some even myself would have supported? I doubt they would have garnered enough support... and even if it did... history suggests we'd simply have TWO half finished minimally viable games, instead of one.

Seriously. This Game is OK, even with balance issues as a simple Unreal Tournament shooter. PGI has demonstrated time and again they are either unable or unwilling to truly grow it into something more. What I think would actualyl do them credit, would be to acknowledge that, and focus on the core of what it is, and what they do understand, drop FW, and focus on adding a true Solaris (both solo and free for all) mode. It would actually enhance it's viability as an Esport, and while some of the Reddiots would harp up "PGI failing"... I think it would actualyl demonstrate to many more customers a grasp of reality, finally, that PGI has consistently not shown up to this time.

And I say this as a guy who WANTS an immersive, true FW experience, and generally has no use for Esports.

Yeah, they could do all that, but PGI.

[xengk]

would back it just like I backed the first time around.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 October 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Because PGI thinks they are Comstar?

We KNOW they are using resources elsewhere... where do you think Bryan is, and what do you think he is doing?

I forgot all about him...he's basically been hiding under a rock ever since the failure of the first Transverse.

Doing what, I have no idea...

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 07 October 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

I forgot all about him...he's basically been hiding under a rock ever since the failure of the first Transverse.

Doing what, I have no idea...

preparing the Jihad, to unleash Transverse 2.0 on us........ Bryan is the REAL Thomas Marik....

[Appogee]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 October 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Timing was a huge issue. Beginning of 2014 was a horrible choice, after the fallout of 2013. It also further demonstrated just how tone deaf they actually were to their customer base, as only PGI could actually assume they had enough customer support and loyalty after the abject cluster**** of 2013, on ALL fronts.

And that is it in a nutshell.

The fact that PGI had straight out lied about the state of progress on CW, completely pissed everyone off with debacles like "noone will be forced to play against others with 3PV", that the core game was still beset by issues and workarounds, etc etc etc, ... and then they had the GALL to again seek money for a new project, was just a lightning rod for all the frustration that had built up.

I told them at the time they were literally mad if they thought they could convince anyone to crowdfund a new title, given their completely tarnished reputation as a developer.

They've made a lot of progress since then. But if they do try to bring out a new title, I expect they will get it ready for launch before they tell anyone about it, and that it will be under a new brand.

And that is also the moment we will realise that yes, our Mech purchases have been cross-funding development of a different title.

Edited by Appogee, 07 October 2016 - 12:14 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Mole, on 07 October 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm sure Transverse would have gone a bit better for them if they hadn't already established a questionable reputation as a game developer with MWO. If they want a better reputation to support future crowd funding they need to improve their reputation by showing they are a competent and good game developer with a product that they already have. So what they need to do is actually pull MWO out of the mud and spiff it up into a nice, well-done game and cut the zero communication "EVERYTHING IS TOP SECRET!!!!111one" crap until people have regained some form of faith in them and then try again. As it stands, nobody trusts them to be honest or competent.

Well that's exactly it.
They came out with Transverse thinking they were riding into battle on a silver unicorn and a pathway of trumpets because they had an ambitious idea, but their reputation and habits preceded them and the whole Transverse campaign was botched as per the PGI status quo.
But unfortunately in that environment, you don't get another stab at getting it right like a Frozen City map, or a UI overhaul. They're going to have to think of something new and try again with something else.

[C E Dwyer]

cazidin, on 07 October 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple question. If PGI were to announce tomorrow their plans to develop a new IP and expand their team, how would you react and would it take away time and resources from MW:O?

Well I certainly wouldn't waste my money on another P.G.I product, the only and I do mean only reason to go near their goods is because Mechwarrior and Battletech.

As to react, I don't think that they can do anything else to this game, and make it worse than it is, so it might be saved by them doing nothing, as most of the new content in the last year, either has, or will make the game worse, so not doing anything more to it, might actually help it.

[C E Dwyer]

Prosperity Park, on 07 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

THIS is why we can't have nice things. Not the idea of PGI holing away money, but a community where people post crap like this.

Of course it is

[Deathlike]

I do expect any future endeavors PGI has during and post-MWO will be met by mass spamming and banning... while having the funniest kickstarter/fundraiser ever (getting 1% of $50k in 30 days is less than what one expects after a mechpack announcement).

[Dread Render]

Dumpster fire... hehe
LOL

[Green Mamba]

To OP: The Forums Burnage would be Glorious

[WarHippy]

Appogee, on 07 October 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

And that is it in a nutshell.

The fact that PGI had straight out lied about the state of progress on CW, completely pissed everyone off with debacles like "noone will be forced to play against others with 3PV", that the core game was still beset by issues and workarounds, etc etc etc, ... and then they had the GALL to again seek money for a new project, was just a lightning rod for all the frustration that had built up.

I told them at the time they were literally mad if they thought they could convince anyone to crowdfund a new title, given their completely tarnished reputation as a developer.

They've made a lot of progress since then. But if they do try to bring out a new title, I expect they will get it ready for launch before they tell anyone about it, and that it will be under a new brand.

And that is also the moment we will realise that yes, our Mech purchases have been cross-funding development of a different title.

All of that plus I seem to recall them saying something along the lines of "With the release of CW the final pillar of the game has been added and that the game will now focus on tweaks and adjustments as far as development goes.". "Oh, and we are excited to announce our new game Transverse which will be starting a Kickstarter campaign in the coming days!"
(At the very least that was the impression I got from them at the time.)

[Deathlike]

WarHippy, on 07 October 2016 - 01:10 PM, said:

All of that plus I seem to recall them saying something along the lines of "With the release of CW the final pillar of the game has been added and that the game will now focus on tweaks and adjustments as far as development goes.". "Oh, and we are excited to announce our new game Transverse which will be starting a Kickstarter campaign in the coming days!"
(At the very least that was the impression I got from them at the time.)

The reality is that PGI doesn't know how much true work has to be done to get to that point. What we got was "passing it off" as finished, when fundamentally it didn't accomplish an endgame purpose of any sort.

Even on the most slanted graded curves, this would be considered "poor"... for anyone else... it would be "failure".

[SmithMPBT]

I'm kinda scared all this talk will embolden Russ to give Transverse another try.

[Unnatural Growth]

SilentWolff, on 07 October 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

Nothing PGI does surprises me at this point, unless it was actually doing something right.

This. So much this.

I can't set the bar any lower. It's already laying on the ground.