79 replies to this topic

[X-Plasma]

Sorry if I didn't disclose the settings. They are maxed out and 1440p. I've tried with all AA settings too.

[Imperius]

X-Plasma, on 09 October 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

Sorry if I didn't disclose the settings. They are maxed out and 1440p. I've tried with all AA settings too.

You're claiming you never drop below a solid 60 FPS during all your matches at 1440p all maxed out settings running dx 11?

I don't believe it to be honest I'm not calling you a liar, but I'm maybe overlooking dips because you're preoccupied playing?

I can't make that claim and I know my PC should never dip in this game and it does.

[X-Plasma]

It does SOMETIMES go below 60 fps running DX11 but it is not often but I play with a 144Hz monitor with G-Sync so I like high frame rates and I want my GPU working at max capacity.

[Imperius]

X-Plasma, on 09 October 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

It does SOMETIMES go below 60 fps running DX11 but it is not often but I play with a 144Hz monitor with G-Sync so I like high frame rates and I want my GPU working at max capacity.

So do I...

Want a fun test?

Run the intro of mechwarrior academy. When the ship flys into the city watch your frames get #rekt

That why I'm vetting you because I don't want anyone to think the current and unoptimizable engine is running ok. Doom 4 that is a beautiful beast! Fox Engine another beautiful beast!

I've got a 4790k and a Titan X (pascal) SSD and yet I get stutter? Pretty much unforgivable. Games are supposed to run better the better your hardware gets. That is not the case here.

[X-Plasma]

Imperius, on 09 October 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

So do I...

Want a fun test?

Run the intro of mechwarrior academy. When the ship flys into the city watch your frames get #rekt

That why I'm vetting you because I don't want anyone to think the current and unoptimizable engine is running ok. Doom 4 that is a beautiful beast! Fox Engine another beautiful beast!

I've got a 4790k and a Titan X (pascal) SSD and yet I get stutter? Pretty much unforgivable. Games are supposed to run better the better your hardware gets. That is not the case here.

What kind of PCs do these guys play the game on to test?

Edited by X-Plasma, 09 October 2016 - 07:33 PM.

[Deathlike]

X-Plasma, on 09 October 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

What kind of PCs do these guys play the game on to test?

It's possible that they were top of the line... at the time MWO started. Upgrading frequently would be a terrible business expense.

[ColdPsyker1]

Becuase the original coders quit years ago and now no one at PGI knows how to actually program for this game

[Imperius]

X-Plasma, on 09 October 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

What kind of PCs do these guys play the game on to test?

Not sure honestly but I've got a video for you of promises to make you weep.

[ColdPsyker1]

Imperius, on 09 October 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

Not sure honestly but I've got a video for you of promises to make you weep.

"NO SIGNAL"

then

"pointless displays"

*cries*

[Mcgral18]

ColdPsyker1, on 09 October 2016 - 08:03 PM, said:

"NO SIGNAL"

then

"pointless displays"

*cries*

They've also removed all functionality from the monitors, aside from the Kill screen


We get GIFs, instead of our previous (buggy AF) ammo counter, and the occasionally functional Heatsink monitor


We get...GIFs...and not even kitten GIFs

[Carl Vickers]

Deathlike, on 09 October 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

It's possible that they were top of the line... at the time MWO started. Upgrading frequently would be a terrible business expense.

Sounds like they need to sell another mech pack.

[l3elthaz0r]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

They've also removed all functionality from the monitors, aside from the Kill screen


We get GIFs, instead of our previous (buggy AF) ammo counter, and the occasionally functional Heatsink monitor


We get...GIFs...and not even kitten GIFs

/unrelated

At least the pilot model moves the joysticks when you accelerate and turn. Also, in MWO lore is the night vision/thermal tied to the mechwarrior's neurohelmet? If not, would be cool if just our windscreens turned green/grey and the cockpit interior was the same color.

[William Mountbank]

Imperius, on 09 October 2016 - 07:00 PM, said:

So do I...

Want a fun test?

Run the intro of mechwarrior academy. When the ship flys into the city watch your frames get #rekt

Or how about just drop in a hot build, run your lazors till you push the heat limit, then walk your mech backwards. Sound stupid? Well, not more stupid than the fact that the sprite particles the MWO engine uses to represent steam will fill up your screen and the alpha blending will drop your framerate to nothing, even if your rig can render Toy Story 5 in real time.

The engine is my least favourite thing about MWO.

[Random Carnage]

Only got as far as the first 5 words in your title, and my mind overloaded and shut down.

[RestosIII]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2016 - 10:44 PM, said:

We get...GIFs...and not even kitten GIFs

[Peter2k]

X-Plasma, on 09 October 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

It does SOMETIMES go below 60 fps running DX11 but it is not often but I play with a 144Hz monitor with G-Sync so I like high frame rates and I want my GPU working at max capacity.

First

You running you're 6700k stock?
Turbo boost would most likely not trigger with such low usage
Or did you OC?
Should be doing 4.4 Ghz without tweaking easily
Maybe it does something

Second
Then it might be interesting to disable power saving in the bios, like all of them and letting the cpu run at max frequency all the time
And see if that makes any difference


Lastly
Some tip might help
MASSIVE FPS IMPROVEMENT THROUGH ENABLING HPET IN BIOS AND WIN10

Edited by Peter2k, 10 October 2016 - 12:25 AM.

[Peter2k]

But to be frank
MWO is just not well optimised

The hud alone eats up a good portion of fps

And I still wonder why the performance difference between testing grounds and live is so incredibly huge

After all while dropping in a match there's no weapons fire to speak of in the beginning
And in testing grounds the mechs need to be rendered just as well as in a live match (made up of several parts in both cases after all)

It always seems to me like the game is waiting for something (like asking the server where a mech is, and then rendering it)

[Product9]

Peter2k, on 10 October 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

And I still wonder why the performance difference between testing grounds and live is so incredibly huge

After all while dropping in a match there's no weapons fire to speak of in the beginning
And in testing grounds the mechs need to be rendered just as well as in a live match (made up of several parts in both cases after all)

Possibly because there are fewer mechs on screen at once.

The biggest bottleneck in real time graphics right now is draw calls. Essentially, the CPU talking to the GPU is a relatively slow process. Each time the CPU tells the GPU to render something new, it has to issue a draw call which has overhead. For this reason, well optimized games reduce the number of draw calls by limiting materials, batching textures into texture atlases, and other wizardry.

Each mech has its own material and textures, so the more mechs (or any objects with their own materials) on screen at one time, the more draw calls. In testing grounds the mechs are sufficiently spread out that they probably won't all be on screen at one time.

This matters.

Now, any game is going to have a significant amount of things to draw on screen. However, this is what concerns me...

I've recently been messing with the MWO assets, and I've noticed an interesting trend. Not only are the mechs all made up of a ton of different meshes (which is probably fine), but each mech has quite a few things going on that might slow things down.

Here's a picture I put together:



The Hunchback in the screenshot has three different materials on it. One for the main body, one for alllll the variant pieces, and one for the... cockpit window.

Ideally, this would all be batched into one material and texture atlas. I really have no idea why the cockpit window has it's own material and texture (called hunchback_window).

At least all the variant pieces share a texture atlas and a single material (though it looks like the body texture might have enough empty space to accommodate the variant bits as well, which would be much more optimized).

In case you are wondering, the damaged bits have the same material as the main body (hunchback_body). I'm also concerned the cockpit might be being needlessly rendered for each mech on screen, which would be more materials and textures and thus more draw calls.

Now, I don't have all the information. I don't know what the engine is doing with all this behind the scenes. It's possible they have some run-time batching going on that negates this problem. I only know what I'm looking at here.

Also, who knows what their shaders are doing. There are a lot of factors in play here.

Edit: Corrected image

Edited by Product9, 10 October 2016 - 02:11 AM.

[Peter2k]

Product9, on 10 October 2016 - 01:33 AM, said:

Possibly because there are fewer mechs on screen at once.

The biggest bottleneck in real time graphics right now is draw calls

I know that
That's why I used to push for dx12 support
Also cryengine just got PhysX support and I think this month vulcan, or next month

Problem here is that those modern API's give more control over to the dev
Away from the driver
I'm not sure I feel confident about PGI's ability in coding for that to be a good thing

Here's the thing
When I drop in testing grounds without looking at anything special I have way over 100fps (of the top of my hat like 115 or so, dx9 more than dx11)
Dropping in a live match and not having a mech in front of me I have ~75fps (depending on map, CW sometimes less)

Also having dips of course, just like anyone else


Also does anyone else have a very short stutter for time to time on crimson since they had a beauty pass?

Only on that map
Ever

[RedDragon]

Imperius, on 09 October 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

Not sure honestly but I've got a video for you of promises to make you weep.

*sigh*
It's not even the broken peomises of "actually making the screens functional" and "an overarching meta-game that rewards players for good role-play"

It's just the look and feeling of the game back then that makes me weep. So beautiful. We already had this. And now we have ... THIS