79 replies to this topic

[Zolaz]

Shovelware game is not optimized very well.

[JC Daxion]

Peter2k, on 10 October 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

It's not that bad

However as was stated by a dev himself

Scaleform (the stuff that makes the hud work) is not very performance friendly
But newer cryengine uses an updated better performing one
Integrating it now them self would be a lot of work
And also stated that more performance passes are a lot of work but community wants more features more

That is kinda what i was getting at.. they have made many improvements.. BUT to optimize the lastest vid card that maybe 2% (i have no clue really, but seeing the card is 500 bucks, I doubt it is a large %) Of the player base has right now, is probably not the best use of Dev resources..

I would hope down the road, they do add optimization to these newer cards though. Right now, id rather have um do other things.. or better yet, higher a couple of people to upgrade the engine, and optimize it then. Give the players something that can be used for another 5+ years..

know what i mean?

[Mycrus]

mogs01gt, on 10 October 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

if it has borders, its not 100% full screen.

Do you see a border?



Got dropped as a kid?

[Michal R]

You want to MWO run better?
Have FPS problem for some times.
What help?

Don't use V-sync.
And use 32 bit client.

And everything is better now.

[mogs01gt]

Mycrus, on 11 October 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

Do you see a border?



Got dropped as a kid?

I dont think you understand what people mean by playing in Windowed mode...

[Peter2k]

JC Daxion, on 11 October 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

That is kinda what i was getting at.. they have made many improvements.. BUT to optimize the lastest vid card that maybe 2% (i have no clue really, but seeing the card is 500 bucks, I doubt it is a large %) Of the player base has right now, is probably not the best use of Dev resources..

I would hope down the road, they do add optimization to these newer cards though. Right now, id rather have um do other things.. or better yet, higher a couple of people to upgrade the engine, and optimize it then. Give the players something that can be used for another 5+ years..

know what i mean?

I know what you're getting at
But it's not exactly how it works

Any card that can do dx11 can do DX12; I think the oldest card that has gained dx12 support is like 6 years old
Of course you don't get newer eye candy
But you would gain the performance improvements

And especially AMD graphics cards of the last few years as well as AMD CPU's would be the ones benefiting the most
Actually in most test cases you can see how especially older AMD's cards can gain big with dx12
While Nvidia usually either looses or stays roughly the same


Here you have users that have high end systems complaining about the game not performing better
But on middle end systems it doesn't play that much better and they would certainly benefit as well

Also more talking about min fps here, you know when the action gets going


However I have come to the conclusion that dx12 is not something PGI should touch

Dev company's that are way bigger have failed to deliver a good dx12 implementation (mankind divided for instance, tomb raider I think)
Or maybe there is just not much to gain as all other games are limited way more by the graphics card

I'm certain it would be good for MWO as most problems seem to stem from the cpu side and that's what the new API's are all about

If the PGI's dev's are convinced themselves that they could do better to improve performance then they should just do that
And allocate resources accordingly

Michal R, on 11 October 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

You want to MWO run better?
Have FPS problem for some times.
What help?

Don't use V-sync.
And use 32 bit client.

And everything is better now.

How does not having vsync get you better min fps?
Also 32 bit does perform worse on my system then 64
As well as allocating more ram
using more (I have plenty anyway, not talking about wasting ram, but using more when there is more) can't be a bad thing

Mycrus, on 11 October 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

Do you see a border?



Got dropped as a kid?

How about you try to run in a bordered window at
Hmm I'm guessing
1920x1080 or so (one monitor maybe, I'm on a cell phone, just guessing)
And hit the print key
And see if you have a bordered window as Screenshot
Something tells me there won't be a border to see in the screen shot, but while playing in windowed mode you'll see a border

I have no idea why you're so stubborn about this (and man you love getting personal)
A Screenshot from ingame only captures what's inside the window

[MrJeffers]

Peter2k, on 11 October 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

How about you try to run in a bordered window at
Hmm I'm guessing
1920x1080 or so (one monitor maybe, I'm on a cell phone, just guessing)
And hit the print key
And see if you have a bordered window as Screenshot
Something tells me there won't be a border to see in the screen shot, but while playing in windowed mode you'll see a border

I have no idea why you're so stubborn about this (and man you love getting personal)
A Screenshot from ingame only captures what's inside the window

Because he is right. A screen shot captures everything, including windows borders. Only Alt-Pntscreen (capture current window) doesn't capture the borders.

Playing full screen windows mode there is no border. What it does is allow for it to be treated like any other application for alt-tab or switching between multiple monitors. There is zero border and it has exclusive use of the screen/screens dedicated to it.

Instead of showing your ignorance by misstating what you think to be happening, just try it out in the game yourself to see how wrong you are. It takes 20 seconds at most.

EDIT: Clean up quote.

Edited by MrJeffers, 11 October 2016 - 02:39 PM.

[Peter2k]

MrJeffers, on 11 October 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Because he is right. A screen shot captures everything, including windows borders. Only Alt-Pntscreen (capture current window) doesn't capture the borders.

Playing full screen windows mode there is no border. What it does is allow for it to be treated like any other application for alt-tab or switching between multiple monitors. There is zero border and it has exclusive use of the screen/screens dedicated to it.

Instead of showing your ignorance by misstating what you think to be happening, just try it out in the game yourself to see how wrong you are. It takes 20 seconds at most.

Don't worry I will
Also you're reading comprehension is noted

Quote

just try it out in the game yourself to see how wrong you are. It takes 20 seconds at most.

Peter2k, on 11 October 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

(one monitor maybe, I'm on a cell phone, just guessing)

[Peter2k]

MrJeffers, on 11 October 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Spoiler

Because he is right. A screen shot captures everything, including windows borders. Only Alt-Pntscreen (capture current window) doesn't capture the borders.

Playing full screen windows mode there is no border. What it does is allow for it to be treated like any other application for alt-tab or switching between multiple monitors. There is zero border and it has exclusive use of the screen/screens dedicated to it.

Instead of showing your ignorance by misstating what you think to be happening, just try it out in the game yourself to see how wrong you are. It takes 20 seconds at most.

Well thank God for Screenshots and photobucket I guess



Can't see a border

[MrJeffers]

Peter2k, on 11 October 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Don't worry I will
Also you're reading comprehension is noted

It had nothing to do with you posting via a phone, and everything to do with you stating that the people who use full screen windows mode have a border and everything they were saying and showing was wrong. About a setting you never tried.

Peter2k, on 11 October 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

Well thank God for Screenshots and photobucket I guess



Can't see a border

Exactly like I and the other poster stated, contrary to your previous opinion.

And to answer your question about running full screen windowed at a fixed resolution, one of two things will happen depending on the native resolution of the monitor and how the driver/monitor is configured.
Either a ) the image will be scaled to the native monitor resolution or b ) if the fixed size is smaller than the native resolution only the fixed size portion will be displayed, and it will be surrounded with black/unrendered area for the rest of the native resoluton, aka letterboxed
In both cases, still no border.
If you do it in windowed mode and the resolution is less than native it will depend on the OS used and if the MWO window is in focus or not. Older OS'es will show a border, even when the app has focus, newer (Vista+ Aero interface windows/border transparency options I believe) will only show the border when the app isn't in focus.
Except we were never talking about windowed mode, the discussion was about *full screen* windowed mode. Option two of the three (full screen, full screen windowed, windowed).


Back on topic - the issue is the draw calls. If neither the CPU or the GPU is being maxed out, that means the bottleneck lies elsewhere. The DirextX DLLs that do the draw calls are single threaded, and have a great deal of latency the higher the number of draw calls, which translates to an effective limit on the number of calls that can be made.
Faster CPU and memory can only marginally improve this limit because it's still executing on a single thread and other processes must wait for it's output. Hence you see idle time on the CPU waiting for the draw call process to finish.

Edited by MrJeffers, 11 October 2016 - 03:02 PM.

[Peter2k]

MrJeffers, on 11 October 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Exactly like I and the other poster stated, contrary to your previous opinion.

MrJeffers, on 11 October 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Because he is right. A screen shot captures everything, including windows borders.

I read into that you insisting there would be a border


edit: to clarify maybe a bit
I'm insisting that using the ingame screenshot function does not render an actual border with the ingame content together
all you see is the inside of the window
so using the prnt key for an ingame screenshot is not showing anyone any proof on the forums(for all the other knows its actually full screen)

while i certainly can force to have an actual border in windowed mode, and a really ugly bar at the top
running windows 10

which frankly I tried out myself



while using the ingame prnt key screenshot function gives me this

MrJeffers, on 11 October 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

Because he is right. A screen shot captures everything, including windows borders.

second edit:
maybe its not clear in this case
MWO uses its own ingame screenshot function
actually you can, under keyboard, assign a different button to take a screenshot
so while under windows or other games the prnt key actually captures youre active window, in MWO it prompts the game to do so

I'm just saying if you want to debunk someone that there is no border then you have to use a different method to capture a screenshot


still not sure how useful that might be to run it like this
MWO scales well to ultra wide

MrJeffers, on 11 October 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Back on topic - the issue is the draw calls.

actually I've been trying to advocate dx12 for a while now and am still bugging Russ about it on twitter from time to time for the exactly this reason
though the coding magic of PGI leaves me doubting

closer to the metal also means having to do more work yourself after all


btw
I used the windows 10 snipping tool for the first screenshot

Edited by Peter2k, 11 October 2016 - 04:04 PM.

[Quicksilverc6]

I have a 6700k (4.8) and a evga 1070 (ACX 3.0) (Mild OC 2100/8500) I have no issue, i look at my GPU clock more than utilization....aiming to keep it above 2050. @ 1080P with TXAA all max settings no frame drop. I can run 1440P with MSAA fine as well, on Forest Colony its a bit too much for TXAA. I do clear my shader cache whenever I change settings and sometimes that fixes my bugs or any odd behavior. GPU does not stay at 100 but over 80%

I use adaptive VSYNC and adaptive performance settings in the NV control panel since I had a 970 because I had micro stuttering without it . I don't run VSYC off to keep the card from flipping out between matches and loading and the extra frames don't do me any good. My monitor is overclocked a bit, but its a standard 60Hz display. (OCs to 72).

[Mycrus]

Peter2k, on 11 October 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

Don't worry I will
Also you're reading comprehension is noted

mogs01gt, on 11 October 2016 - 05:12 AM, said:

I dont think you understand what people mean by playing in Windowed mode...

I win the internetz.

[mogs01gt]

Mycrus, on 12 October 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I win the internetz.

I finally understand WTF you are talking about. I thought you were trying to say full screen with borders was still full screen.

I alt-tab a lot, Im going to try full Window mode!

[Peter2k]

Mycrus, on 12 October 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

I win the internetz.

I don't mind at all
Just wanted to basically convey that using the build in Screenshot function only captures the insides of the window

Hard to convince others that way

[BARBAR0SSA]

Tried the borderless window, makes FPS way worse.

1070 Sucks still, 8 fps on Terra on very high and FXAA....in a Nvidia title like wth.


testing full screen vs full window

Full window 20fps full screen 50fps idle of course. action it sucks

Edit:

GSYNC is a problem in windowed mode.....nothing like a $400 monitor feature that is trash.

Edited by shad0w4life, 25 October 2016 - 05:25 PM.

[Deathlike]

Makes sure the NVidia profile is pointed to the correct MWOclient.exe (whether it be Steam or normal client). This means adding it even if it was detected (you want it to reference the correct binary, 32-bit or 64-bit depending on which you prefer to use - Steam defaults to/uses the 64-bit version).

Also, you want to force "Prefer Max Performance" for the Power Management Mode in the NVidia Profile for the game.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 October 2016 - 04:39 PM.

[Lord Sparkle Bottom]

I agree in the fact that this game really isnt optimized well. when they first added the new textures on some of the maps i was getting awful frame rate as seen in my Mauler MX90 6 AC 2's with Fire Ctrl video. but they eventually fixed this issue as i have seen no other issues lately. try updating your MOBO BIOS and see if that helps but i doubt it.

https://youtu.be/NIFG3wFoZrg

Edited by Lord Sparkle Bottom, 25 October 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[BARBAR0SSA]

Deathlike, on 25 October 2016 - 04:36 PM, said:

Makes sure the NVidia profile is pointed to the correct MWOclient.exe (whether it be Steam or normal client). This means adding it even if it was detected (you want it to reference the correct binary, 32-bit or 64-bit depending on which you prefer to use - Steam defaults to/uses the 64-bit version).

Also, you want to force "Prefer Max Performance" for the Power Management Mode in the NVidia Profile for the game.

I have that for the general profile already set i don't have game specific, or is there a bug with Nvidia, cause they sure seem to love having bugs.

[Deathlike]

shad0w4life, on 27 October 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

I have that for the general profile already set i don't have game specific, or is there a bug with Nvidia, cause they sure seem to love having bugs.

The specific game profile has precedence. For anything undefined, the general/generic profile is used.