110 replies to this topic

[LordKnightFandragon]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

Thanks for the clarification on tiers, Lord. I have to disagree with you on the analogy, though. In MechWarrior: Online, because there is no tech grind to open up certain units, you wouldn't have to touch the M1 at all. You'd be able to skip right into the M1A1 and work it. I mean, tell me a Mech you aren't able to buy, so long as it is available for C-Bills. You can have a Dire Wolf before your Cadet bonus runs out, in all fairness.

Yeah, but to get the first M1A1 to "Reknowned" status you would first have to buy ANOTHER M1A1 and get it to 99%, then get ANOTHER M1A1 to 99% and THEN your first one would become 100%. BUt then you ALSO have to go back and get the other 2 to 100% as well. So, in the end, you have 3 M1A1s in your garage, but only 1 has the loadout you want on it. The other 2 cant have the same equipment, so you just dont reaally want to play them...but the game more or less forces it on you if you want to get the end tier equipment.

Its like, why do I want to spend money buying THREE(3) of the same ***** tank!? Maybe I wanted to ALSO buy the Leopard 2A5, and then ALSO buy the T-90. BUt NOOOOOOO, by MWO logic you have to waste all your time and money leveling the same goddamn tank 3x over. I mean really.....how is this system even defended....cuz MWO lacks a grind? WHy does every game need a grind in the first place? for money making? Just make fantastic gameplay and sell cosmetics if you need money for the game. The kind of grind we have in this game feels so gimmicky, half baked and just here SOLEY for the sake of making a grind. At least in other games, you dont grind up the tiers to go from an M1A1 to an M1A1 to an M1A1 then a T-90, T-90, T-90, Leo 2A5, Leo 2A5, Leo 2A5.......I mean really!?

Its like every game ever, making you grind the same piece of equipment 3x before your item is actually maxed.....

[Felbombling]

LordKnightFandragon, on 10 October 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Yeah, but to get the first M1A1 to "Reknowned" status you would first have to buy ANOTHER M1A1 and get it to 99%, then get ANOTHER M1A1 to 99% and THEN your first one would become 100%. BUt then you ALSO have to go back and get the other 2 to 100% as well. So, in the end, you have 3 M1A1s in your garage, but only 1 has the loadout you want on it. The other 2 cant have the same equipment, so you just dont reaally want to play them...but the game more or less forces it on you if you want to get the end tier equipment.

Its like, why do I want to spend money buying THREE(3) of the same ***** tank!? Maybe I wanted to ALSO buy the Leopard 2A5, and then ALSO buy the T-90. BUt NOOOOOOO, by MWO logic you have to waste all your time and money leveling the same goddamn tank 3x over. I mean really.....how is this system even defended....cuz MWO lacks a grind? WHy does every game need a grind in the first place? for money making? Just make fantastic gameplay and sell cosmetics if you need money for the game. The kind of grind we have in this game feels so gimmicky, half baked and just here SOLEY for the sake of making a grind. At least in other games, you dont grind up the tiers to go from an M1A1 to an M1A1 to an M1A1 then a T-90, T-90, T-90, Leo 2A5, Leo 2A5, Leo 2A5.......I mean really!?

Its like every game ever, making you grind the same piece of equipment 3x before your item is actually maxed.....

I guess. lol

Look, you can just sell off the two you no longer need when the one you do want is Elite. You're not stuck with them forever or anything.

What would the alternative be for MechWarrior: Online? You would have to unlock the Locust, Commando, Spider, Cicada, Vindicator, Centurion, Griffin, Dragon, Catapult, Archer, Marauder, Victor, BattleMaster, Cyclops then Banshee to get to the Atlas that you wanted?

F that.

All I know is, I don't mind the three Mech system if it helps me avoid a tech grind as described above and prices for single units like you see in other games.

Edited by StaggerCheck, 10 October 2016 - 08:23 AM.

[Deathlike]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

I guess. lol

What would the alternative be for MechWarrior: Online? You would have to unlock the Locust, Commando, Spider, Cicada, Vindicator, Centurion, Griffin, Dragon, Catapult, Archer, Marauder, Victor, BattleMaster, Cyclops then Banshee to get to the Atlas that you wanted?

F that.

That sounds so easy.

There's virtually no point to master a Spider-5V, outside of claiming the shame that goes with it.

[Airwind]

one of those things that kept my wallet closed.

[Revis Volek]

Deathlike, on 10 October 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

There's virtually no point to master a Spider-5V, outside of claiming the shame that goes with it.

I actually have fun in my 5v, a single LPL on that thing has some serious DPS. But i dont recommend it for anything but HARD MODE Solo Q.

[Single Mom]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

I guess. lol

Look, you can just sell off the two you no longer need when the one you do want is Elite. You're not stuck with them forever or anything.

What would the alternative be for MechWarrior: Online? You would have to unlock the Locust, Commando, Spider, Cicada, Vindicator, Centurion, Griffin, Dragon, Catapult, Archer, Marauder, Victor, BattleMaster, Cyclops then Banshee to get to the Atlas that you wanted?

F that.

All I know is, I don't mind the three Mech system if it helps me avoid a tech grind as described above and prices for single units like you see in other games.

Very good point. The alternative is either a long liner tree of ships to grind through, with ****** tar pit vehicles carefully placed every few tiers to incentivize you to cash your way to the next tier. wots, wows and armored warfare are all pretty notorious for this. The MWO system at least put you into the chassis you want first, then leave it to you to decide whether to invest time/cbill/cash/etc

[LordKnightFandragon]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

I guess. lol

Look, you can just sell off the two you no longer need when the one you do want is Elite. You're not stuck with them forever or anything.

What would the alternative be for MechWarrior: Online? You would have to unlock the Locust, Commando, Spider, Cicada, Vindicator, Centurion, Griffin, Dragon, Catapult, Archer, Marauder, Victor, BattleMaster, Cyclops then Banshee to get to the Atlas that you wanted?

F that.

All I know is, I don't mind the three Mech system if it helps me avoid a tech grind as described above and prices for single units like you see in other games.

THe alternative is that only because no one would dare try something new. I know, this game did try something new, it just so happened that system kinda sucks just as much or worse. Also, LOL, you use Wargaming, yeah, they have massively overpriced ****.....

The alternative id use is a Pilot/Mech skill tree grind. Sure, that individual mech would have a skill tree grind of its own, but it would be completely and utterly unrelated to ANY other mech in the game. If you wanted to master your Warhawk Prime, then you could do that. If you wanted to spend money to speed up that grind you could do that to. BUt you wouldnt need to WASTE money buying 2 more Warhawks just to master the 1st one. There is what? 150+ mech variants in this game? Let people buy the mechs they want, master the mechs they want and have fun playing them. Sell us cosmetics if you want money. Cosmetics sell and sell well.

Id make a pilot skill tree, you would be 1 pilot, but it would be a lengthy indepth skill tree that allowed you to form your pilot into your playstyle, maybe options and many menus to choose from...well, a few anyway. You could use XP/MC to speed that along as well. I would have many systems people claim would ruin this game, like CoF, recoil on weapons, weapon/mech arm sway while moving, and the skill trees and module would all serve to lessen, but not remove those effects. MWO would be a much more immersive, skill based tactical Mech shooter. You would feel like your driving a Battlemech. Sounds would be nice and loud and it would feel like you just got shot out of your Timberwolf...or like you just hammered that guy with dual AC20s.....

You would need to manage heat, ammo, mobility vs weapon accuracy, recoil...oh yes.....

Mechwarrior could be soooooooo much more then a grind 3 mechs and grind 3 more then grind 3 more style COD shooter game. Not quite to the extent of ArmA or Hearts of Iron, but much more to it then now.

As for selling hte mechs off, sure, you can, but ****, after you've spent 60 million on 3 mechs, ****, why sell em!? Game already made ya dump tons of time into them.....you shouldnt need to buy them in the first place.

The idea they have is good, they just need to unrelate 1 mechs progress from another and MASSIVELY expand on the tree, of course, given the dull, bland, shallow, pointless, run and gun gameplay we have, there really isnt much to expand on...they worked themselves right into a hole on that one. Any further skill tree boosts and we would all be so OP it wouldnt be funny...

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 10 October 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[Akhri Mala]

StaggerCheck, on 09 October 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

Statements like this make me scratch my head. I've got a buddy who used his Cadet Bonus to buy a Hellbringer. He played the crap out of that thing, unlocked the basic tree and was sitting at about 40k XP when he had enough C-Bills to purchase his second Hellbringer. [He tinkers a lot]. When he finished the basics on his other two Hellbringers he had an instant unlocking of the Master skills, because the XP was just sitting there waiting for him. He Mastered the other two Hellbringers and did the same thing to his original to Elite it. Then he used Mech Credits earned during an event to convert the remaining XP on his original Hellbringer to GXP, and unlocked a Module.

I don't know. All these tales of woe about how hard the new player experience is seem to lack something. Like the players doing the complaining have NEVER taken advantage of an event weekend the whole time. It's like they play Tuesday 10:00am to Friday 10:00am or something.

The difference is that my friends don't enjoy playing just one type of mech.
One guy bought 3 mediums and an assault, the other bought 2 heavies and 2 assaults.
Telling them that they are forced to buy the same mech over and over because xp(?) isn't something that makes them want to play more, it makes them want to play less.

[Felbombling]

LordKnightFandragon, on 10 October 2016 - 09:05 AM, said:

THe alternative is that only because no one would dare try something new. I know, this game did try something new, it just so happened that system kinda sucks just as much or worse. Also, LOL, you use Wargaming, yeah, they have massively overpriced ****.....

The alternative id use is a Pilot/Mech skill tree grind. Sure, that individual mech would have a skill tree grind of its own, but it would be completely and utterly unrelated to ANY other mech in the game. If you wanted to master your Warhawk Prime, then you could do that. If you wanted to spend money to speed up that grind you could do that to. BUt you wouldnt need to WASTE money buying 2 more Warhawks just to master the 1st one. There is what? 150+ mech variants in this game? Let people buy the mechs they want, master the mechs they want and have fun playing them. Sell us cosmetics if you want money. Cosmetics sell and sell well.

Id make a pilot skill tree, you would be 1 pilot, but it would be a lengthy indepth skill tree that allowed you to form your pilot into your playstyle, maybe options and many menus to choose from...well, a few anyway. You could use XP/MC to speed that along as well. I would have many systems people claim would ruin this game, like CoF, recoil on weapons, weapon/mech arm sway while moving, and the skill trees and module would all serve to lessen, but not remove those effects. MWO would be a much more immersive, skill based tactical Mech shooter. You would feel like your driving a Battlemech. Sounds would be nice and loud and it would feel like you just got shot out of your Timberwolf...or like you just hammered that guy with dual AC20s.....

You would need to manage heat, ammo, mobility vs weapon accuracy, recoil...oh yes.....

Mechwarrior could be soooooooo much more then a grind 3 mechs and grind 3 more then grind 3 more style COD shooter game. Not quite to the extent of ArmA or Hearts of Iron, but much more to it then now.

As for selling hte mechs off, sure, you can, but ****, after you've spent 60 million on 3 mechs, ****, why sell em!? Game already made ya dump tons of time into them.....you shouldnt need to buy them in the first place.

The idea they have is good, they just need to unrelate 1 mechs progress from another and MASSIVELY expand on the tree, of course, given the dull, bland, shallow, pointless, run and gun gameplay we have, there really isnt much to expand on...they worked themselves right into a hole on that one. Any further skill tree boosts and we would all be so OP it wouldnt be funny...

Sounds like a gaming Utopia, Lord. Some great ideas here that make a ton of sense, but I fear the problem would be repeat sales for PGI. I don't see the purchase incentive to keep PGI afloat. One Mech / Pilot system really eliminates the need for repeat business, doesn't it? Take our OP as an example in this thread. He gets into his favourite Mech ever, the Mauler. He spends his time either grinding up to the point that he can purchase it for free, or he plunks down cash once to get it. Then what? PGI is supposed to survive on cosmetic items from that customer moving forward? I just don't see it.

[Deathlike]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Sounds like a gaming Utopia, Lord. Some great ideas here that make a ton of sense, but I fear the problem would be repeat sales for PGI. I don't see the purchase incentive to keep PGI afloat. One Mech / Pilot system really eliminates the need for repeat business, doesn't it? Take our OP as an example in this thread. He gets into his favourite Mech ever, the Mauler. He spends his time either grinding up to the point that he can purchase it for free, or he plunks down cash once to get it. Then what? PGI is supposed to survive on cosmetic items from that customer moving forward? I just don't see it.

There is an easier way.

Say you really really want people to be incentivized to use the other variants while removing the lame restrictions...

Buying 1 variant of a chassis and getting it basiced = +5% C-bill bonus for that chassis
Buying 2 variants of the same chassis and getting those 2 basiced = 15% C-bill bonus for those 2 variants of the chassis
Buying 3 variants of the same chassis and getting those 3 elited = 30% C-bill bonus for all 3 variants of the chassis
This bonus stacks ontop of the hero/special mech bonus (for a max bonus of 60%).
For mechs that have more than 3 variants, an additional 5% C-bill bonus is added for every mastered variant.

While this violates every Paulconomy rules, but it allows people to recover C-bills they spent just buying in triplicate. There should be an alternative option to sell them back and keep said bonus once that variant is mastered (no reason to keep a mastered Spider-5V in general).

It's not complicated, but apparently incentivizing behaviors is Lostech.

Edited by Deathlike, 10 October 2016 - 11:03 AM.

[Duatam]

Ok I finally have the recent tweet, which confirms that they are overhauling the skill tree:

https://twitter.com/...9548722176?s=09

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

having spent under $40 in 4 years to play MWO with many free mechbays and items from events, and knowing skill tree changes are coming, i can't agree with this post.i have twenty something mechs ( a couple were free) and 5 unused mechbays,but it took more than 1 day to get them...

[Kubernetes]

This is a weak complaint. I'm not a fan of the present skill tree, but it's not terribly onerous to have to grind three variants. If anything, the requirement benefits newer players by encouraging them to play in the mechlab and try out different loadouts and playstyles.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kubernetes, on 10 October 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

terribly onerous to have to grind three variants.

Grinding is by its nature onerous, it is a task you repeat to gain some benefit even though the task is not enjoyable. If it were enjoyable, it wouldn't be grinding.

Kubernetes, on 10 October 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

requirement benefits newer players by encouraging them to play in the mechlab and try out different loadouts and playstyles.

Variants across mechs don't generally play differently unless it is an omnimech, so by that argument, people should be more incentivized to actually buy a different chassis, not another variant of the chassis they already own.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 October 2016 - 12:19 PM.

[Felbombling]

Deathlike, on 10 October 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

There is an easier way.

Say you really really want people to be incentivized to use the other variants while removing the lame restrictions...

Buying 1 variant of a chassis and getting it basiced = +5% C-bill bonus for that chassis
Buying 2 variants of the same chassis and getting those 2 basiced = 15% C-bill bonus for those 2 variants of the chassis
Buying 3 variants of the same chassis and getting those 3 elited = 30% C-bill bonus for all 3 variants of the chassis
This bonus stacks ontop of the hero/special mech bonus (for a max bonus of 60%).
For mechs that have more than 3 variants, an additional 5% C-bill bonus is added for every mastered variant.

While this violates every Paulconomy rules, but it allows people to recover C-bills they spent just buying in triplicate. There should be an alternative option to sell them back and keep said bonus once that variant is mastered (no reason to keep a mastered Spider-5V in general).

It's not complicated, but apparently incentivizing behaviors is Lostech.

Deathlike, this is pretty brutal. You could set yourself up with a hero Mech and premium time, making 500k + per match. Why would anyone ever have to open their wallet again? You'd be swimming in C-Bills on the strength of a single Mech.

[LordKnightFandragon]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Sounds like a gaming Utopia, Lord. Some great ideas here that make a ton of sense, but I fear the problem would be repeat sales for PGI. I don't see the purchase incentive to keep PGI afloat. One Mech / Pilot system really eliminates the need for repeat business, doesn't it? Take our OP as an example in this thread. He gets into his favourite Mech ever, the Mauler. He spends his time either grinding up to the point that he can purchase it for free, or he plunks down cash once to get it. Then what? PGI is supposed to survive on cosmetic items from that customer moving forward? I just don't see it.

You make it a very lengthy and in depth skill tree, one that has you grinding up for a while. So you drop gold to rush it a little. Its also for each mech you play. Believe me, the OP might start out in the Mauler, but he WILL try new mechs if he has fun in the game. I do the same thing. Warframe? I said "I come only for Rhino and the Soma". I now own like 7 frames, and several different guns. Ive branched out from what I first said id come for. I have also dropped a good deal of cash in that game. That is a game where you can more or less get w/e frame you want right off the bat, you just have to grind for it a little with a group who would be willing to help you do it and hten the mats ot build it....

PGI would survive by making a game that draws people in and they have so much fun with they stay, and branch out, and spend more money buying more mechs and premium time to get more XP to progress up a MUCH more meaningful tree faster.

Planetside 2 primarily sells cosmetics. I think they could get by. PGI has a good selection on cosmetics. If the player ends up liking the game(Requires good gameplay, bug free and a fun experience), then the person stays, he buys cosmetics for 1 mech, figures, hey, ill try this, and buys that one, then another then another and THATS how they could survive on cosmetics just fine. No one stays in just 1 mech, they all eventually branch out and try others. Sure, they want their favorites first....me in Armored Warfare, I came for the Abrams, Leo 2A5 and Merkava MKIV(isnt in game). I still wait for the Merk, but own many different tanks beyond my initial goals.

[FupDup]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Deathlike, this is pretty brutal. You could set yourself up with a hero Mech and premium time, making 500k + per match. Why would anyone ever have to open their wallet again? You'd be swimming in C-Bills on the strength of a single Mech.

It's almost as if spending money on premium items is SUPPOSED to make the grind much easier?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

StaggerCheck, on 10 October 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

You could set yourself up with a hero Mech and premium time, making 500k + per match. Why would anyone ever have to open their wallet again? You'd be swimming in C-Bills on the strength of a single Mech.

This really just makes it easier on those willing to experiment or collectors. I have over 330 mechs and I rarely have more than 10 mil sitting around because I'm buying modules or trying to go back and outfit some of my older mechs I stripped because I needed parts for better mechs. Good players who limited themselves to a pool of mechs already have stockpiles of c-bills, so this just encourages those who may want to be collectors to actually be collectors.

[The Pug Commander]

the grind is not that bad. you can generally basic a mech in 10 to 15 games or so.

[C E Dwyer]

Maqi, on 09 October 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

Text removed, read O.P folks

It's not a scam its a mechanism, it's how the game works, its a good way, because it allows, people a choice.

In AW, and the world of series, you grind out tiers of tanks and their modules, once you have ground out the skills, you cannot progress, until you pick another tank, or ship, you will never see a match where a panzer 1 is in a game with a tiger tank, you'll not see a tiger tank in a game with an E100.

Here, you don't need to grind out endless xp and credits to improve the weapons on your mech you just have to grind the credits.

There is a very open and very good system sed here where any mech can damage any other mech and out side group play where there are some tonnage limitations, any mech can end up in a game with any other type. which doesn't happen in the other games.

There had to be a limiting factor somewhere, and to play your favourite mech you don't have to grind out nine others before you can play an Atlas or a Kodiak, so P.G.I chose this way.

I'm sorry you don't like it, but it's not dishonest and not a scam, and your comments just display a complete lack of class you, so do have fun in AW

Deathlike, on 10 October 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

There's virtually no point to master a Spider-5V, outside of claiming the shame that goes with it.

I have mastered every light and every variant of that light in the game but the Jenner II 's

Clearly I know no shame