28 replies to this topic

[Barkem Squirrel]

Ok, so we had the 'Quirkening' making many IS mechs way over powered.

Then they started to lower some of the buffs and nerf some of the clan mechs.

Now we have better balance between IS and Clan tech. Not perfect, but close.

Even now the Kodiac's are just like the direwolf. Don't approach then from the front. Monday night I was running in an Oxide jenner. Picked a direwolf, altas and Kodiak to attack. Called out the Direwolf, and Atlas and someone that knew me said have fun and had the rest of the team focus on other targets. Yep 35 tons v. 300 tons and someone knew I could handle them. I keep the three assaults occupied, killed two of them on my own and ran the Kodiak out of ammo. Yep, LRM oxide is OP, an yes I was in a very trolley state of mind taking out the SRM 4's.

[mailin]

For my money the biggest drawback that clanners have to face is the heat. Once you find out where the clan assaults are try to overwhelm their position with numbers, forcing the clanners to FIRE EVERYTHING!! Meanwhile, call out targets and have as many as possible focus on the biggest baddest first, then the next and so on. Even the sturdiest mechs will evaporate quickly when properly focused.

[Commander A9]

I quick-play to skill up mechs for Community Warfare.

Or for events, like this current Mechtoberfest.

Edited by Commander A9, 12 October 2016 - 03:09 PM.

[Hunka Junk]

1) We're in the midst of an event that promotes the use of heavies and assaults simply because they can do more damage.

2) The KDK-3 is the mech of the moment (the season? the year?)

3) If you're getting wiped by 4 assaults moving in a line, that's because that team is cooperating effectively. Teams that advance in firing lines are more likely to be effective no matter which mechs are being used.

4) At meta/competitive level, they are reasonably well-balanced. I base that on reading around and commentary from people like Boogie, nit because that's where I'm playing. Similarly, judging game balance from Tier 5 Puglandia is not ideal. You have horrible people driving fabulous mechs. You have good people playing mechs that are not leveled. You have sharks dropping in to feed on some squishiness. And most of all, you have crazy stupid people that get themselves insta-killed without doing jack for damage.

5) It's a fairly well-established pattern that when a player only plays one side, they think that their side is getting screwed over. Try playing both sides and then judge.

6) I play both, and I'm pretty confident in saying that the pilot is wayyyyyyy more important than the mech.

[Stealthrider]

There's really only one thing that bugs me about Clan vs IS balance, and that's the Large Pulse Laser.

While in all other cases, Clan weapons have range advantages but are largely meant for the same roles (Small lasers/pulses for up-close brawling, ER Large lasers and PPCs for sniping, etc). the Clan LPL and IS LPL are completely different. With a 365m range, the IS LPL is a mid-range-ish brawler weapon, compared to the whopping 624m C-LPL that's more of a sniper. That really irks me, as it fundamentally changes the balance spectrum of that weapon class.

There are other issues, like IS not having Streak 4s and 6s, but the LPL difference is the standout. Does the C-LPL really need to have almost double the range? Would it not be fine as a more dedicated mid-range weapon, like the IS version but longer-ranged (like all the other Clan weapons are)?

[S 0 L E N Y A]

^ consider this for LPL.

IS LPL has a far shorter burn time AND only triggers ghost heat when you fire more than 3 at a time.

The shorter burn time also equates to a shorter cool down time.

The reality is they are just very different weapons with different uses.

[Void Angel]

echochild, on 11 October 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

EDIT: I think more of what I'm talking about is less Clan Omnimechs, which I have found to be manageable opponents, and more of what were supposed to be Clan secondline mechs.

Hmmm... I see what you all are saying, but I can't tell you how many matches I've seen where there were a lance (or more) of Kodiaks and Nights Gyrs, and they absolutely tore our assaults (many IS) to shreds and the other team were PUG's, not full of units. I read in the forums that the IS vs. Clan mechs were balanced, but I've watched the Kodiaks and Night Gyr use poor tactics and still wreck IS heavy and assaults. Is it a range advantage thing?

I usually play light mechs, and if I see a Jenner IIC, I run (where as with IS Jenner, the only one that makes me run is Oxide). I've rarely played against a Jenner IIC and come out on the winning end, even going specifically for their legs (yes, I'm new, but I'm decent with my Locust PB from what other players who spectate tell me). I have jumped all kinds of IS heavy and assault mechs from behind and managed to do some good damage (minus Atlas's usually), but if I jump a Kodiak from behind, I'm just tickling the paint job, and hoping he pays more attention to me than the rest of my team.

Is it possible I'm seeing this trend because the matching system in QP is so horrible?

Again, what you're seeing is the ease of use of Clan chassis, rather than an overwhelming difference in power - it's also possible that the Kodiaks you remember jumping are putting more armor to the rear because they're not good enough to deal with Light attackers (many Assault pilots aren't.) But barring something with exceptional structure quirks (most Kodiaks have 15 CT structure quirks,) the durability of an enemy is going to be determined by it's size.

What a lot of new Clan players do is to just stare at you with rapid-firing autocannons and laser beams. Their weapon duration times are longer, so this feels natural, and their DPS is typically superior. So if their Inner Sphere counterparts are doing the standard corner peeking tactics - or just aren't good at spreading damage yet - they're going to get rofflepwned. I saw this with Night Gyr players when that 'mech launched, too. They'd build out a mini-Kodiak and expect to just stare me down. It worked, too - when I couldn't afford to concentrate on them - and I'm not surprised they went with that. But if your Inner Sphere opponent engages them properly, it's a much more even game.

So while I understand exactly where you're coming from and why your conclusion makes sense with the information you have, you'll be glad to know that that it's not really the case that Clan 'mechs are notably stronger as a class than the Inner Sphere.

[Void Angel]

PS:

Stealthrider, on 13 October 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

There are other issues, like IS not having Streak 4s and 6s, but the LPL difference is the standout. Does the C-LPL really need to have almost double the range? Would it not be fine as a more dedicated mid-range weapon, like the IS version but longer-ranged (like all the other Clan weapons are)?

While some people do find that the alpha limit, longer burn times, and heat per damage dealt really do, PGI agrees with you - according to the latest test build for energy draw. =)

[aGentleWarrior]

I play both sides and find them "balanced".
When thinking of the clan superiority lore wise i find the clans even a bit weak.

it was already mentioned why, however i will still repeat what i see most:

1) clan omnimechs are superior at beginning, but if you get is mech and add endo, double heatsinks, drop some jumpjets, customize engine exactly you will get usually a very good compromise which is harder to achieve with clan omnis

2) durability - i feel in all clan mechs easier destroyed then in the IS ones. Is it because of longer facetime because of longer weapon durations, worse quirks? Hard to say reason for me, but this is my feeling. I feel much saver in my battlemaster then in my kodiak. Saver in my thunderbolt then in my timberwolf. etc etc...


Ironically i love the clan UACs... I have a lot of dual UAC builds. There are maybe more effective builds, but these make Dakkadakkadakka, dakkdakkadakka.

My Kodiak 3 is sth special... I find it hard to play.
You get a lot of attention and draw a lot of focus fire with it
The clan UACs need some good leading so i try to pick big slow targets where I can land alot of bullets.
Being swarmed by light(s) on close distance, with no help - that is irritating, many shots miss, but the size of kodiak makes sure no shots at you miss...

Edited by aGentleWarrior, 14 October 2016 - 05:30 AM.