29 replies to this topic

[Ouze]

I was a MWO founder so I've been playing a while, but I'm playing a new mech, so this seems an appropriate place.

I've been playing a Streak Dog, a Mad Dog with 6x Clan Streak SRMS. This build mostly goes well but a few times now I've lost the targeting reticle and I'm not clear why.

Last game: I see a Centurion, right ahead of me, we're talking 50 meters tops, no terrain in the way, wide open and begging for it. Almost point blank. I hit R to target him. The reticle appears and after the normal amount of time, locks on. I have mine set to 2 Streaks in groups 1, 2, 3. I give him groups 1, 2, 3, fwoosh fwoosh fwoosh. I do this again, fwoosh fwoosh fwoosh.

Then the reticle disappears. I cannot fire. The Centurion is still targeted. He's powered up, he's shooting me.

I click R to pick something else. I click R again and he is targeted. He is perhaps 10 meters away.

No reticle appears. He's still powered up, still shooting me.

I get killed.

This has happened several times now. Does anyone know why?

[Spheroid]

Sounds like ECM. Not a bug.

Edited by Spheroid, 12 October 2016 - 10:38 PM.

[Omniseed]

Add an Active Probe and a TAG, and Artemis every time for a Streak boat.

[Tesunie]

Omniseed, on 12 October 2016 - 11:01 PM, said:

Add an Active Probe and a TAG, and Artemis every time for a Streak boat.

AP and Artemis is YES here.

TAG? Not needed so much. It helps, but it not needed for SSRMs for the most part.

[Ouze]

Thanks guys. I'll try to find the tonnage for a BAP.

[The Basilisk]

Next strategy to insta break log on to lurmers or streakers is hitting 'P' and powering up again.
With quick powerup skilled this is done within the reload cycle of a CSRM6.
Most ppl get frantik and spam 'R' since they cant shoot their streaks without locks and forgot to bring backup wpns and deem BAP to be a waste of tonnage.
Against lurmers its even more easy since they need to target jump anyways to get decent dmg and fail to confront you on sighline most of the time.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

If there was an enemy ECM present it could be jamming your targeting systems. That should be visual on your HUD.
If the 'mech you targeted (the centi in this case) got bubbled (leeching the 90 meter ECM bubble of one if his teammates) you should not be able to target and lock him (because The ECM enemy mus have been within your range as well).

Long story short
->If targeted mech was that close (50 meter?) and you did not see someone jamming your HUD it was a bug.

Add:

You should still get a BAP, helps getting locks faster and at least counters one ECM. Although, with a 150 meter range limitation. And you can lock and fire at close range shutdown mechs (overheated lights for example).

A TAG can be helpful because it has 700 meter range unlike the 150 meter of a BAP (clan tech specs)
It also holds the Lock for a second after LOS breaks.
And it tightens missile spread. Although, not very interesting for SSRM bomber.
It also generates c-bills as long as it pointed at an exploding enemy!)

Artemis doesn't weight anything on streaks but decreases the lock on time. It's a no-brainer if you have the c-bills.

Target decal module would be helpfull too, Since it can hold the lock a little longer especially against ECM mechs which usually do not have a radar deprivation modules equiped.
Just do not expect the full 2,75 seconds target hold from it's specs because radar derprivation, ecm and bubbling all shorten the time in live situations.

If anything it should be able to hold locks for longer then your ssrm need to reach your target (even at maxrange) even after LOS broke.

360 Target retention is an option but comparing to other options (like decay) it wouldn't be my first choice (also "only" 200 meter reach).

Don't cheap out on UAVs either.

Last but not least, check your OMNI PODS!
Always make sure you have the MDD-B variant Omni'arms. Those are the only ones with lower arm- and hand-actuators, have both equiped on both arms and make sure to unlock armlock ingame. It makes tracking much more easier. I've seen an aweful lot of people not being able to track properly because they had armlocks enabled. There is absolute no reason to do that on a Streak based mech.

Likewise, The MMD Variants vary in specs! For example, the MDD A and B center torso variants feature a turn speed bonus which the other Variants do not have.
I would recommend the A Variant precisely this MDD-A out of the four. Compare specs and choose what you like more.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 13 October 2016 - 03:00 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

^ BAP does not decrease lock time.
It decreases "targeting time" which is the time it takes for you to get the "paper doll" readout on your target.

[TercieI]

Ouze, on 12 October 2016 - 11:18 PM, said:

Thanks guys. I'll try to find the tonnage for a BAP.

The tonnage is there. Two ECMs kill you anyway, so the TAG is useful to cut through that to your target (also works outside of CAP's 150 range). Always bring a UAV too. If you must bring a streakboat, being sure you can't be shut down by ECM is your top priority.

Lancemate and I came on a 9-SSRM2 ARC the other day in two ACHs...we double ECMed him and ate his lunch. Don't be that guy.

Edited by TercieI, 13 October 2016 - 05:09 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

TercieI, on 13 October 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

Lancemate and I came on a 9-SSRM2 ARC the other day in two ACHs...we double ECMed him and ate his lunch. Don't be that guy.

Pretty sure nothing would have helped him in that situation, except better positioning ofc.

[TercieI]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 13 October 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

Pretty sure nothing would have helped him in that situation, except better positioning ofc.

Competent mech building?

My point was you can avoid that in a MDD because you can add the other tools. The Archer could have thrown up a UAV, too. Assuming that he had BAP, that would have cancelled both, at least until one of us shot down the UAV. To be fair, though, he was pretty isolated and this was me and another Div A light pilot. His build didn't matter, it just made it extra painful for him since "killing lights" was his big idea.

Edited by TercieI, 13 October 2016 - 05:47 AM.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

target decay module is a MUST for streaks and lrms.

this module will hold the lock almost 3 seconds longer when you would have lost the lock, even for streaks....

Edited by Gorantir, 13 October 2016 - 10:25 AM.

[Tesunie]

Some slight misinformation here:

Toha Heavy Industries, on 13 October 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

You should still get a BAP, helps getting locks faster and at least counters one ECM. Although, with a 150 meter range limitation. And you can lock and fire at close range shutdown mechs (overheated lights for example).

Already been mentioned, but I'll just reinforce it. AP does not make your missiles lock on faster. BAP will, however, still help with cutting through a single ECM unit (shuts it down when nearby) and targeting any shut down mechs. It's a must have for any SSRM mech.

Toha Heavy Industries, on 13 October 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

A TAG can be helpful because it has 700 meter range unlike the 150 meter of a BAP (clan tech specs)
It also holds the Lock for a second after LOS breaks.
And it tightens missile spread. Although, not very interesting for SSRM bomber.
It also generates c-bills as long as it pointed at an exploding enemy!)

TAG can be helpful in speeding up targeting lock, but with Artemis equipped (as suggested elsewhere), it isn't a "must have" unlike BAP.
If you are under the influence of ECM (say you have AP but you get attacked by two ECM mechs at once in close range), TAG will not help you. TAG is only good to counter ECM at a range, and even then it doesn't disable it but permits targeting by punching through it's effects.
TAG doesn't generate any additional C-bills for being on target, or for hitting an enemy mech being destroyed. However, if that enemy mech it is hitting is being dealt damage (and/or dies) from a form of lock on weapon (SSRMs and/or LRMs), you will get a bit of a bonus. If they are being hit by any other weapon you don't get anything.

As far as in relation to SSRMs, TAG is not as useful as other equipment, but it can still be useful depending upon how you wish to use it. The increased target decay from TAG is another feature with more benefits for LRMs than for SSRMs. You don't typically shoot SSRMs indirectly, so having a lock on a target long behind cover isn't as worth while. (Though I'm sure there are situations where this could be handy.)

Toha Heavy Industries, on 13 October 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

Target decal module would be helpfull too, Since it can hold the lock a little longer especially against ECM mechs which usually do not have a radar deprivation modules equiped.
Just do not expect the full 2,75 seconds target hold from it's specs because radar derprivation, ecm and bubbling all shorten the time in live situations.

Target Decay is not the most helpful tool for SSRMs, which normally deal their damage at close ranges. It might come in handy for enemy tracking, but Radar Deprivation would be considered a more powerful tool, and in the right hand Seismic would be next best module.
Overall, Adv. Target Decay is better served on an LRM equipped mech, and is only marginally effective on a SSRM mech. Though, it can have it's uses...

Toha Heavy Industries, on 13 October 2016 - 02:09 AM, said:

If anything it should be able to hold locks for longer then your ssrm need to reach your target (even at maxrange) even after LOS broke.

Last I recalled, either SSRMs are fire and forget (unlike LRMs which must have a lock the entire (or mostly) trip to it's target), or I find them so close ranged that it just doesn't matter. Not to mention, if LOS is broken, most likely your SSRMs are going to be hitting same said terrain instead of the target, making the advanced decay less than ideal.


Everything else sounds solid, hence I did not respond to it.

TercieI, on 13 October 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

The tonnage is there. Two ECMs kill you anyway, so the TAG is useful to cut through that to your target (also works outside of CAP's 150 range). Always bring a UAV too. If you must bring a streakboat, being sure you can't be shut down by ECM is your top priority.

Lancemate and I came on a 9-SSRM2 ARC the other day in two ACHs...we double ECMed him and ate his lunch. Don't be that guy.

Good point. Just wishing to add the note that TAG doesn't work if your mech is under the influence of ECM itself. So, in the case of two ECM mechs attacking at close range at once (provided no one else is nearby with AP or some other ECM counter), the TAG wont help you against them while the non-shutdown ECM is affecting you at close range. (At a distance you are correct though.)

Gorantir, on 13 October 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

target decay module is a MUST for streaks and lrms.

LRMs, yes. SSRMs? Not so much really...

[TercieI]

Tesunie, on 13 October 2016 - 07:42 AM, said:

Good point. Just wishing to add the note that TAG doesn't work if your mech is under the influence of ECM itself. So, in the case of two ECM mechs attacking at close range at once (provided no one else is nearby with AP or some other ECM counter), the TAG wont help you against them while the non-shutdown ECM is affecting you at close range. (At a distance you are correct though.)

Thanks. I wasn't sure about the TAG details. I don't run streaks unless I have to for comp. Such a hamfisted way of playing.

[Tesunie]

TercieI, on 13 October 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

Thanks. I wasn't sure about the TAG details. I don't run streaks unless I have to for comp. Such a hamfisted way of playing.

TAG still has it's uses for SSRMs, however it isn't as helpful as other equipment. (If you debate between AP and TAG, take the AP long before hand...)

The TAG would still quicken lock on speeds to near instant, but compared to the already really fast Artemis (for free weight too), it often isn't a must have, but it is nice to have if you can afford the tonnage.

I always try to provide accurate information. (So if you ever find me saying something incorrect, just let me know!)


I've been finding SRMs are actually registering hits again, but only when aimed at legs really... So I've been using SRMs against the legs of Lights (what you want to blow off anyway), and it's been working well. I think there is still a small gap between hit box locations that my SRMs keep falling into and "vanishing", which would explain why leg hits work so well, but torso hits don't seem to register as much damage... Before hand, only SSRMs would register damage for me, and even then not always.

[TercieI]

Tesunie, on 13 October 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

I always try to provide accurate information. (So if you ever find me saying something incorrect, just let me know!)

Me too, which is why I thanked you for correcting my comments on TAG.

I agree with your hierarchy: BAP/CAP is required (as is a UAV, IMO) and TAG is good to have.

[Koniving]

Boogie138, on 13 October 2016 - 02:41 AM, said:

^ BAP does not decrease lock time.
It decreases "targeting time" which is the time it takes for you to get the "paper doll" readout on your target.

Beyond the poor way that is written, the other reason people believe it decreases lock on time is because BAP (within range) and CAP (when in range AND specifically targeting the offending enemy ECM user) count as a Hard Counter.

Hard counters remove ECM's "Lock delay" feature. Thus, accelerating lock on time to "normal lock on time" instead of "normal lock on time -25%" as a normal Streak/LRM weapon would suffer when trying to lock a "Soft Countered" ECM.

[Koniving]

Side note: TAG provides a 25% lock on speed increase.

TAG is a soft counter, so versus ECM the two quell each other to "normal lock on time."
If you have BAP/CAP + TAG and meet the range conditions to hard counter ECM, you'll have the BAP/CAP disable ECM's 25% lock delay... bringing it to normal speed and your TAG will give you 25% faster lock on time, so super fast locks!

Also, the Artemis -- due not by intention but by flaw of game programming as LRMs and Streaks share identical lock on code -- will add another 25% faster lock time provided that the target is Hard Countered.

So if you want 50% lock on bonus against ECM users; you need TAG + BAP/CAP + Artemis.
Party hard, Streakstars.

[Koniving]

TercieI, on 13 October 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

Thanks. I wasn't sure about the TAG details. I don't run streaks unless I have to for comp. Such a hamfisted way of playing.

I miss when streaks were so "incredibly overpowered." Remember, back when they did nothing but go for the center torso and left mechs absolutely devastated? They were the ultimate cheese back then.

Such OP. Much damage. Stop miss.

So bad PGI gave them spread patterns... and incredible agility to fulfill the belief that they always hit with 100% accuracy... rather than they won't fire unless they believe they will hit.

[Ouze]

Thank you all for your advice. I have in fact added BAP and a UAV, working on the additional module.