51 replies to this topic

[maimaimi]

there is a solution to engaging faster mechs(at least on maps with cliffs)
this is anecdotal from my last match I played on viridian about 10 minutes ago

a) go on top of a ledge
enemy passes below
c) hop off ledge
d) backstab assult in front of you while medium behind tries and fails to damage rear armor (i think it was an awesome or something, died in 1/2 a shot)
e) turn around
f) shoot the medium (in the face, a HBK of some description, also didn't last long)
g) shoot off the arms of the atlas that is to your right
h) keep shooting with the 4xUAC5 (cause heat)
i) help kill atlas and then die to some other enemy nearby (my poor DWF ran out of armor)

TL|DR : for an assault's its not really about speed, its about knowing lines of sight and positioning, also engaging as a team helps
(unless you are in a EXE-c, with mask that thing goes 90kph...)

if I was planing to run round solo really backstabing people and the like I would hop into my nova or cheetah
if you sit in an assault you should be playing like a chess master not a ninja, 10more or less kph rarely effects the outcome of a fight

Edited by maimaimi, 13 October 2016 - 01:53 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Why are you making this thread if you already have the answer you're looking for?

Clearly you're already sure of the intrinsic superiority of the ERSL Dire.

[radiv]

Its funny how many ppl that actully answers a guy who claims he has 8 uac 5 on his dwf seriously

[The Basilisk]

Low mounts referes to the position of wpns hardpoints relative to the upper limits of the mech.

So a Black Knight for example, even if beeing one of the tallest mechs in game with consequently having its mounts well above ground is considdered a low mount mech.
The Catapult on the other side wich is a very smal mech for its weight has very high arm mounts.

Back to Kodiak and Dire: The Kodiak has its mainweapons (hint its not its arm weapons) in its shoulders or upper torsoes.

Reason why this is of consequence is the area of your mech you have to expose to the enemy while you fire.
The KDK-3 only has to expose the upper 1/3 of its torso to fire its quad ACs (I actually prefer 2UAC10 2UAC5)
Other KDK variants like the 5 with its myriad of lazors (try 4LPLs and 6ERM for the lulz, fired right claw, left claw) will have to expose 2/5 of their area to the enemy.
The onesided KDK4 can be driven with 2Ultra 10 and 2 LPLs and a larger targeting comp for city fighting and sniping around lateral terrain structures.

The Direwolf will have to expose its full torso over a vertical or horizontal covering spot no matter what.
Also its acceleration, topspeed twist and turn speed are vastly inferior towards the Kodiak.

So if you say you killed one in your prefered smal laser dire config you either may have encountered an early PGI AI (with F.T.U.P.I.D.^TM algorythm) player or someone who was drunk, never played the game and drove its kodiak first time.

[Michal R]

Why you feed Tier 5 troll?
Why?

For fun?

[PFC Carsten]

Nothing, I repeat, N O T H I N G can stand up to the power of the DIRESTAR. KDK pls getgud.

[maimaimi]

The Basilisk, on 14 October 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

Back to Kodiak and Dire: The Kodiak has its mainweapons (hint its not its arm weapons) in its shoulders or upper torsoes.

Reason why this is of consequence is the area of your mech you have to expose to the enemy while you fire.
The KDK-3 only has to expose the upper 1/3 of its torso to fire its quad ACs (I actually prefer 2UAC10 2UAC5)
Other KDK variants like the 5 with its myriad of lazors (try 4LPLs and 6ERM for the lulz, fired right claw, left claw) will have to expose 2/5 of their area to the enemy.
The onesided KDK4 can be driven with 2Ultra 10 and 2 LPLs and a larger targeting comp for city fighting and sniping around lateral terrain structures.

The Direwolf will have to expose its full torso over a vertical or horizontal covering spot no matter what.
Also its acceleration, topspeed twist and turn speed are vastly inferior towards the Kodiak.

Finally! Someone that actually verbalised why KDK is actually a good mech... this is like pulling god damn teeth.

So KDK good points:
Its torso mounts(when fighting over the top of a hill)
It's 400 engine(10kph more then DWF)
It's fat arms(this can't really be argued against)

It's bad points:
Lack of mounts(4xAC or bust)
Big engine(400xl or bust)
Fat torso(really fat...)

Did I miss anything? I tried to catch everything but between the fanboys and the psychos it was a lot of s**t to sift through to get a useable opinion on the mech...

LoL Carsten, that DWF... glorious!

Edited by maimaimi, 14 October 2016 - 02:00 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Don't be too harsh on some of the guys.

Some of them simply play for such a long time that lots of points look for them as if they where common sense (realy ... putting high recoil weapons like Gauss and ACs on high mounts on a humanoid design would be beyond stupid in real world) as if such things would have any place in a god forsaken computer game.

Srsly the biggest advantage of a humanoid design would be its effin arms beeing able to be elevated in any angle you need to reach or fire upon enemys (or climb a hillside, grab stuff like say the shoulders of an enemy to fire all torso wpns at an imobilized foe...)
Biggest advantage of an avian would be pretty much what it is with the Stalker or Marauder. Its torpedo formed flat body would be ideal for deflecting frontal fire and keeping low profile.

Also its arms are an other (minor) downside of the Dire Wolf. Its arms have no lateral movement when loaded with larger weapons.
A KDK can pack even ppcs without disadvantage in its arm movement.

MWOs game reality is go fast or die over everything else, since weapons only know dps, velocity and frontload/dps/heat ratio.

If heavy weapons would have their place as main weapons for heavy and assault mechs cause they simply are hard to fire from a smaler platform due to consequences firing them and light weapons would also do light dps, like they should according to lore, it would be an entire different game.

But as it is the KDK packs the main advantages a mech can pack.
Speed around 70kph, huge firepower, high mounts.

Depending on map I think the Spirit bear is actually even more dangerous than the KDK-3.
Topspeed 90kph with mask and same loadout as an Atlas.

Edited by The Basilisk, 14 October 2016 - 02:39 AM.

[Daggett]

maimaimi, on 13 October 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

there is a solution to engaging faster mechs(at least on maps with cliffs)
this is anecdotal from my last match I played on viridian about 10 minutes ago

a) go on top of a ledge
enemy passes below
c) hop off ledge
d) backstab assult in front of you while medium behind tries and fails to damage rear armor (i think it was an awesome or something, died in 1/2 a shot)
e) turn around
f) shoot the medium (in the face, a HBK of some description, also didn't last long)
g) shoot off the arms of the atlas that is to your right
h) keep shooting with the 4xUAC5 (cause heat)
i) help kill atlas and then die to some other enemy nearby (my poor DWF ran out of armor)

TL|DR : for an assault's its not really about speed, its about knowing lines of sight and positioning, also engaging as a team helps

And how often do you manage to pull such things off? How often do you hop off the ledge and get focused down or shot in the back by a more competent medium pilot almost instantly?

The reason why the Kodiak is so popular is it's reliability. You can be effective on any map and any range. You simply don't need to pull off special moves. Imagine fighting the Kodiak with your DWF on a hot map like Terra Therma.
Not only is he able to occupy the caldera before you, your lasers are also pretty much useless after one salvo into his shield-arm leaving you with less firepower and less mobility.

And what if you are the one cresting the hill in your other example? For your low arm weapons to be effective you need to get all the way up while being hammered upon by 2xAC10 and 2xAC5. And with 52 kph you need an eternity to do so.

What do you do on typical nascar-maps like HPG or Caustic? A Kodiak can lead the counter-clockwise push while a DWF can only secure the rear, IF he even manages to do this. I have seen countless DWF got left behind and eaten up by the enemy push.

And this is not even a "bad team"-issue. The team that tries to stick with the DWF and face the enemy CCW push by defending CW is often put at a serious disadvantage not only by losing initiative, but also by being unable to bring a lot of their firepower to full use (you know, quite some mechs have the majority of their firepower on their right side, like the Atlas). So in a way bringing a slow mech like the DWF to a nascar-map always has the potential to fail miserably.

And not only the top-speed is crucial on some maps, the Kodiak actually is agile enough to use it's arms for shielding pretty well. So against a veteran Kodiak pilot your lasers will only damage it's massive arm. But try torso twisting in a DWF, everyone can still easily hit your side torso even if you twist in time. And you kinda need your arms, while the Kodiak can happily live without 'em. BTW: Your AC-20 WHK has the same problem. If you use your arm to shield damage, you can easily lose half of your firepower.

So putting all those little things together there is not much left for the DWF to excel beside it's raw firepower.

Michal R, on 14 October 2016 - 12:49 AM, said:

Why you feed Tier 5 troll?
Why?

For fun?

I'm not sure if he is really a troll. I know many players who judge mechs only by their ability to dish out damage and not by their equally important other abilities.

And you only feed the troll if he manages to get you angry. As long as you answer in a rational way you still will not convince the troll, but you may have a positive impact on other readers.

Edited by Daggett, 14 October 2016 - 02:30 AM.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

"Hi guys should I get the Timberwolf, Stormcrow and Arctic Cheetah?"

No I recommend the summoner, Ice ferret and the Mist Lynx...

[Jay Leon Hart]

radiv, on 14 October 2016 - 12:00 AM, said:

Its funny how many ppl that actully answers a guy who claims he has 8 uac 5 on his dwf seriously

I'm pretty sure that was in reference to double tapping 4x UAC5s - at least, that's what I *hope* they meant.

[Zergling]

TercieI, on 13 October 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

Let's play a game of "Troll or Potato?"

Nevermind, this is why we have Ignore lists.

Take a look at the OP's stats on the leaderboards; the answer is 'potato'.

[TercieI]

Zergling, on 14 October 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

Take a look at the OP's stats on the leaderboards; the answer is 'potato'.

To be fair, they're not mutually exclusive.

[maimaimi]

I can feel the ad hominem, no better proof of fanboys then that

rage on KDK fanboys, rage on...

(btw thanks for the info, as I said it was like pulling teeth but I got what I needed in the end)

hmm it also has, 11 tones more pod space on the EBJ for -15kph
(obviously with XL400, armour and 15hs, for the pedantic morons amongst you...)

Edited by maimaimi, 14 October 2016 - 05:19 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

maimaimi, on 13 October 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

my DWF regularly guts KDK. usualy goes like this:

KDK crests hill
I shoot (12ERSL,8UAC5 across 1 second, 100damage to torso)
KDK finally gets high enough to fire its guns (~50 damage pinks into my CT)
KDK realises it has no torso armour left and tries to retreat or twist (by this point all my guns have cycled)
I shoot again (into its torso cause its so fat that you really can't miss)
KDK explodes...

your mind, I have blown it?

KDK-3 GR/PPC hillhumps your back from 600 m (before you reach the centre). By the time your dire turns around, a torso is gone. Your ERSL are out of range. You have two UAC5 versus 2Gauss 2ERPPC and put 20 dmg into him before your other side torso is removed.

Your mind, have I blown it?

Let me try with a more balanced scenario.

You start trading at 500 m with a Dakka Kodiak.

All his shots connect due to great convergence, while a good 15-20% of yours miss. Because your torso twist is so limited, he gets a lot more shots on CT than you do on him. Once your CT is flashing, you start torso twisting to limit damage, and he just patiently waits for you to turn back and show CT. You will die, perhaps after removing a side torso if you aimed for it.

Your mind, have I blown it?

--This from a dire pilot.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 14 October 2016 - 05:26 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

FWIW, on open terrain, a 3UAC5 2UAC10 DWF will slaughter a KDK-3. But how often do these stars align?

A dire, unfocused, allowed to shoot a KDK-3, no terrain in the way, both mechs undamaged.

How often? Once in 10 matches, maybe?

[maimaimi]

on what map are you playing on?

forest colony and frozen city are the only maps that have areas where my DWF has trouble staying in cover and getting in 200m range bracket it likes. Actually those are the only 2 maps in MWO where you see great expanses of open terrain that long range guns can take advantage...

you guys act like the KDK has a max speed faster then a light mech

just to remind you guys:
light mechs: 129kph
medium(masc assault) mechs: 97kph
Heavy mechs: 87kph
KDK(fast assault) max speed: 69kph
DWF(slow assault) max speed: 52kph

and really if you are having more long range encounters then short range brawling just run a front end long range DPS Dire, hell we have a video of someone running a 1 shot 11ERPPC build in the video above...

Edited by maimaimi, 14 October 2016 - 05:55 AM.

[Zergling]

Dunning-Kruger effect

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

If you start playing in T1/T2 conditions you will understand why we place so much emphasis on the Dire having mid-long range DPS over short range DPS.

The Dire can hit 32 DPS at close (see mechspecs if you're interested) (I think 2UAC5/12 SPL) -- quirky weapon mixes -- which absolutely can kill anything short of an atlas with ease, assuming perfect conditions.

But 1) One-trick pony build -- A good griffin pilot (at half the weight) can outbrawl you, because you cannot maneuver fast enough. Especially true in non 1v1 conditions, when you will be focused down

2) At mid-long ranges, Dire spreads damage well. Up close, you cannot torso twist to save your life. You can only choose which side torso you shed, to prolong your death

Edited by Keshav Murali, 14 October 2016 - 06:05 AM.

[maimaimi]

Zergling, on 14 October 2016 - 05:57 AM, said:

Dunning-Kruger effect

the wonders of ******** psychobabble, the fine art of saying what everyone already knows

in this case the statement is:
unless you are suicidally depressed or have severe confidence issues your self assessment will always be better then other peoples assessment of you...