274 replies to this topic

[SS3GOKU]

Dude you're just butthurt cause people who pay to help keep this game going, unlike freeloaders like you. Can get a better mech. Waaaahh.

[Taffer]

This thing is OP as ****. Your chances of winning go way up if you have one or more Kodiaks on your team. It's getting very boring. I might have to take a break from this game until they fix it. Reminds me of how boring the game got when the amount of poptarts on a team determined who won.

[El Bandito]

SS3GOKU, on 15 October 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

Dude you're just butthurt cause people who pay to help keep this game going, unlike freeloaders like you. Can get a better mech. Waaaahh.

Imbalance is detrimental to player retention and this game already has small player base. Also, I saw plenty of paid players in this thread and others talk about just how outlier in terms of power curve the KDK-3 is. So leave your generalization out the door.

I personally own KDK-3 and I say it needs nerfs. Buffing other mechs to the standard it had set is only going to be detrimental to gameplay as a whole.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 October 2016 - 09:39 PM.

[UnofficialOperator]

El Bandito, on 15 October 2016 - 09:36 PM, said:

Imbalance is detrimental to player retention and this game already has small player base. Also, I saw plenty of paid players in this thread and others talk about just how outlier in terms of power curve the KDK-3 is. So leave your generalization out the door.

I personally own KDK-3 and I say it needs nerfs. Buffing other mechs to the standard it had set is only going to be detrimental to gameplay as a whole.

You bought the mech pack for $ or cbills?

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 15 October 2016 - 10:06 PM.

[BD RAIDR]

KDK-3 should be left alone. It was OP before it got nerfed. If it gets nerfed again it'll end up as another 'meh' clan assault.

[El Bandito]

UnofficialOperator, on 15 October 2016 - 10:06 PM, said:

You bought the mech pack for $ or cbills?

C-Bills, after nerf. And even then the KDK-3 performed better than my most tryhard Assault mechs, with less effort.

BD RAIDR, on 15 October 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

KDK-3 should be left alone. It was OP before it got nerfed. If it gets nerfed again it'll end up as another 'meh' clan assault.

Even with removal of its CT structure quirk and reduction in twist angle, the KDK3 will still be T1 mech. Clantech + hardpoints/locations + high engine rating assures this.

[Zergling]

BD RAIDR, on 15 October 2016 - 10:13 PM, said:

KDK-3 should be left alone. It was OP before it got nerfed. If it gets nerfed again it'll end up as another 'meh' clan assault.

The KDK-3 is still OP after the nerf, and it would still be good even after another nerf. Besides, the clans don't only have 'meh' assaults; the Dire Wolf and Warhawk are good, just not ridiculously OP like the KDK-3.

[MacClearly]

Maqi, on 14 October 2016 - 03:12 AM, said:

when the **** are you gonna delete those broken *** p2w op structure quirks from the kodiak 3?
seriously what the ****, it has been p2w for long enough and now that it is out of cbills any unskilled ******* can just buy one straight up fill it with UACs and literally point and click to melt any mech assaults included within mere seconds.
like if it wasnt overpowered enough with what it already has:

>100 tons
>clan weapons
>clan xl engine that goes up to 400
>extremely high mounted ballistics
>arms that shield the mech completely from the sides

dont you think its ******* strong enough?
how about you give those structure quirks to something that desperately needs the more like the Mauler, or the Banshee (another mech you completely forgot it exists).
Banshee is a 95 tonner big as a ******* barn with NO STRUCTURE OR ARMOR OR ANY SURVIVABILITY QUIRK WHATSOEVER.
but since it wasnt released as mechpack and its not a new mech, you just dont give a ******* **** about making it ******* viable.
because if something doesnt sell and earn you money, why bother, right?

Then you would have to nerf the Warhammer as well. People keep whining and complaining when good mechs are put into the game. What was done to the Black Knight for example. No way it should be taller than an Atlas. It got hit with the nerf hammer bad because this community is chocked full of complainers who seem to want everyone running stock builds and make sure every mech sucks.

Is the Altas OP too? Try to take one on with a Kodiak 3 and see what happens. The structure and firepower will destroy you if both pilots are even remotely close in skill.

What we really need to nerf is complaining and whining.

[UnofficialOperator]

El Bandito, on 15 October 2016 - 10:39 PM, said:

C-Bills, after nerf. And even then the KDK-3 performed better than my most tryhard Assault mechs, with less effort.




Even with removal of its CT structure quirk and reduction in twist angle, the KDK3 will still be T1 mech. Clantech + hardpoints/locations + high engine rating assures this.

So it is better to alienate the paying customers of a small customer base instead when the KDK 3 is readily available to everyone for cbills?

It is better to buff every other mech instead as a positive cycle instead of a negative nerf cycle.

As 100 tonner, wouldn't you expect them to be near the top?

Look at this chart, how about nerfing Nova, Hbk iic, Stormcrow etc? Because they are way overperforming for 50tons. And thus the never ending nerf cycle begins, sucking the love out of everyone equally.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 15 October 2016 - 10:54 PM.

[Deathlike]

UnofficialOperator, on 15 October 2016 - 10:53 PM, said:

So it is better to alienate the paying customers of a small customer base instead when the KDK 3 is readily available to everyone for cbills?

It is better to buff every other mech instead as a positive cycle instead of a negative nerf cycle.

As 100 tonner, wouldn't you expect them to be near the top?

Look at this chart, how about nerfing Nova, Hbk iic, Stormcrow etc? Because they are way overperforming for 50tons. And thus the never ending nerf cycle begins, sucking the love out of everyone equally.

Did you actually understand some of the context of the numbers?

For instance, the Nova was nerfed post event.

Hunchback IIC has zero quirks.

I think you're not really looking into the details, and simply looking over numbers.

[BD RAIDR]

El Bandito, on 15 October 2016 - 10:39 PM, said:

Even with removal of its CT structure quirk and reduction in twist angle, the KDK3 will still be T1 mech. Clantech + hardpoints/locations + high engine rating assures this.

I'm not talking about the CT quirk. Personally, I don't even think that the extra 15 CT structure bonus makes much of a difference. The reduction in twist angle will hurt it severely, as it did the Direwolf. The thing is, the Kodiak is an enormous target and so easy to hit, you reduce the twist angle and it won't be able to shield the CT at all. If the STs had structure bonus, I'd agree that those would need removing.

Zergling, on 15 October 2016 - 10:48 PM, said:

The KDK-3 is still OP after the nerf, and it would still be good even after another nerf. Besides, the clans don't only have 'meh' assaults; the Dire Wolf and Warhawk are good, just not ridiculously OP like the KDK-3.

It's not OP. It's in a good spot for a 100 tonner. The other 100 tonners should be more like the KDK-3 - if only!

Also, I didn't mean that all clan assaults are 'meh'. I agree with you that the Warhawk is decent (second best after the Kodiak imo) and the Direwolf is still incredibly powerful but only in certain situations. In some situations it's pretty useless (I'm being nice there).

NB: The only times I see the KDK-3 do really well is when it is in the hands of a good pilot who plays patiently and makes it to the end of a match - which can be done with just about any mech, even ones considered sub par.

Looking forward to the Marauder IIC to be another viable clan assault. Let's not nerf that one too.

Edited by BD RAIDR, 15 October 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[Deathlike]

BD RAIDR, on 15 October 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

I'm not talking about the CT quirk. Personally, I don't even think that the extra 15 CT structure bonus makes much of a difference. The reduction in twist angle will hurt it severely, as it did the Direwolf. The thing is, the Kodiak is an enormous target and so easy to hit, you reduce the twist angle and it won't be able to shield the CT at all. If the STs had structure bonus, I'd agree that those would need removing.

15 structure is the equivalent of 3 IS Meds or 2 CERMEDs or a Gauss Rifle shot on the CT with full damage dealt to it. It's not exactly trivial.

Edited by Deathlike, 15 October 2016 - 11:24 PM.

[UnofficialOperator]

Deathlike, on 15 October 2016 - 11:03 PM, said:

Did you actually understand some of the context of the numbers?

For instance, the Nova was nerfed post event.

Hunchback IIC has zero quirks.

I think you're not really looking into the details, and simply looking over numbers.

And do you have any numbers for the current meta? Should we just base balancing the game on gut feel in matches where PSR does not work? What should we base balancing on then?

Exactly.

[Deathlike]

UnofficialOperator, on 15 October 2016 - 11:32 PM, said:

And do you have any numbers for the current meta? Should we just base balancing the game on gut feel in matches where PSR does not work? What should we base balancing on then?

Exactly.

PUG play reflects some of the top tier metas.

There are some cases where people overreact when they shouldn't, but when comp players recognize the imbalance at a more global level, I would not trust random players on opinions of balance.

It's not that hard to see, unless you need said crutches/imbalances.

[BD RAIDR]

Deathlike, on 15 October 2016 - 11:21 PM, said:

15 structure is the equivalent of 3 IS Meds or 2 CERMEDs or a Gauss Rifle shot on the CT with full damage dealt to it. It's not exactly trivial.

What about the 30-40+ laser alphas that it is trivial to, that every other mech carries? 2 c-LPL + 3-4 c-erML, or 3 is-LPL + x number of is-ML. Not even a full burn of one of those alphas and that quirk is toast.

Edited by BD RAIDR, 15 October 2016 - 11:39 PM.

[Mcgral18]

BD RAIDR, on 15 October 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

What about the 30-40+ laser alphas that it is trivial too, that every other mech carries? 2 c-LPL + 3-4 c-erML, or 3 is-LPL + x number of mls. Not even a full burn of one of those alphas and that quirk is toast.

Which is in turn mitigated by torso twisting with the Kodiaks not exactly bad hitboxes.

[Y E O N N E]

BD RAIDR, on 15 October 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

What about the 30-40+ laser alphas that it is trivial to, that every other mech carries? 2 c-LPL + 3-4 c-erML, or 3 is-LPL + x number of is-ML. Not even a full burn of one of those alphas and that quirk is toast.

I have had more than one instance where I thought a single 34-point blast from my Mist Lynx or a 68 point blast from my Splat Battlemaster would have been enough to polish off a cherry red or deep orange KDK, only from him to shrug off the hit and keep going. Any other 'Mech would have died.

[Deathlike]

BD RAIDR, on 15 October 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

What about the 30-40+ laser alphas that it is trivial to, that every other mech carries? 2 c-LPL + 3-4 c-erML, or 3 is-LPL + x number of is-ML. Not even a full burn of one of those alphas and that quirk is toast.

I don't think you remember the days where the Black Knight had garbage for structure quirks, and it took that (and hitbox changes) before it wasn't a joke (until rescaling and requirkenings to remove any reason to use a Black Knight).

Even the 12 points of structure on a Mist Lynx's arms is noticeable. The difference is that a Kodiak's CT has a lot more base structure to work with... but it's still there relatively speaking.

Then again, the Mist Lynx is at the bottom of any chart regarding Lights or mechs in MWO. 15 pts on the best variant (KDK-3) is kinda different from the 12 pts on the worst chassis in the game (MLX). Just saying.

It's not trivial, but you obviously don't pay attention.

[Zergling]

BD RAIDR, on 15 October 2016 - 11:16 PM, said:

It's not OP. It's in a good spot for a 100 tonner. The other 100 tonners should be more like the KDK-3 - if only!

The KDK-3 allows average to above average players to pull off consistent performance like a top 1-5% player.
That is the very definition of OP.
When players consistently perform above their normal level of performance simply due to what they are using, then what they are using is overpowered; that is the very definition of it.

Other 100 tonners don't need buffs, as they are performing about where they should be. The Kodiak is the outlier here.

Edited by Zergling, 16 October 2016 - 12:01 AM.

[BD RAIDR]

Mcgral18, on 15 October 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Which is in turn mitigated by torso twisting with the Kodiaks not exactly bad hitboxes.

Which will be ruined if the torso twist angle is reduced.

Yeonne Greene, on 15 October 2016 - 11:55 PM, said:

I have had more than one instance where I thought a single 34-point blast from my Mist Lynx or a 68 point blast from my Splat Battlemaster would have been enough to polish off a cherry red or deep orange KDK, only from him to shrug off the hit and keep going. Any other 'Mech would have died.

Sounds like a hit reg issue. I've dropped plenty of KDK-3s with those kinds of alphas.