274 replies to this topic

[Zergling]

Yeonne Greene, on 17 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

I dunno, LoL, DotA2, Overwatch all seem to be doing just fine.

I think it is poorly devised changes that alienate people, combined with a customer base who doesn't understand the concept of software as a service and purchasing an experience.

There's also the customers that think they deserve to keep something that is horribly overpowered because they paid money for it.

[Deathlike]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 17 October 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Technically, Overwatch isn't F2P, it just has micro-transactions to help support continuous development.

I think people want this expectation to have F2P funded by microtransactions (anything that's cosmetic) and the only time this works is when the game is naturally successful. When you're not that successful (which is what this game is, despite what people imagine it to be), you're forced to create types of transactions that enforce a "convenience gap" that would otherwise punish your experience (like not having enough C-bills until you get the next mech w/o a huge amount of grinding). Ironically there are some games that make this much more accessible... MWO is simply not one of them (the non-MC prices of mechs spent with real money doesn't really change outside of the Steam packs that irregularly go on sale).

There will eventually be a point of diminishing returns though... especially if/when your product isn't automatically selling itself "effortlessly".

Edited by Deathlike, 17 October 2016 - 09:19 AM.

[SmithMPBT]

DGTLDaemon, on 16 October 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

My experience in CW where performance per ton is of paramount importance says otherwise. On the IS side, I always see a lot of Atlases, King Crabs, Stalkers, Maulers, Banshees, Battlemasters - you name it. It's actually easier to list the assault mechs that IS teams rarely bring to battle - those would be Victors, Zeuses and Highlanders. On the Clan side, however, the story is different. Until the Kodiak was released, it was all Timber Wolves, Ebon Jaguars and Hellbringers. Occasionally, someone would bring a Warhawk, and sometimes I would even see a Dire Wolf - but then the first message in the team chat would usually be along the lines of "never, ever again bring a Dire Whale to CW" (optionally supplemented with "you idiot"). The Clans started bringing assaults to CW en masse only with the arrival of the Kodiaks, while the IS teams have been doing it forever. That doesn't mean that Kodiaks are OP - it means that they are the first Clan assaults that can perform on the level of Clan heavies ton to ton.

(For the record - I am aware of the "Gargoyle rush" tactic employed in CW by German Clan Ghost Bear, but that is a very, very isolated case ).

Sorry bro but Dire Whales have always been brought to FW for their face crushing alphas at the gates.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 17 October 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

I think people want this expectation to have F2P funded by microtransactions (anything that's cosmetic) and the only time this works is when the game is naturally successful.

Well, that is the only real sustainable model for F2P, because anything other than that will cause strife among the community and eventually bleed it dry.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 October 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Zergling, on 17 October 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

There's also the customers that think they deserve to keep something that is horribly overpowered because they paid money for it.

I get what you're saying, but I also see the 'bait-and-switch' aspect of some of what has gone on.

It's way to 'convenient' that most of the more recent 'mechs, both IS and Clan, have come with some what appear to most of us as very immediately obvious flaws making them overly powerful in one manner or another, that, just before/or the day of becoming CBill purchasable get 'fixed'.

I think there's some reasonable level for cause to feel a bit scammed...

[Khosumi]

So the clans finally have a mech that can stand to Atlas spams in FP. How horrifying.

[Deathlike]

Ethak, on 17 October 2016 - 10:42 AM, said:

So the clans finally have a mech that can stand to Atlas spams in FP. How horrifying.

To be fair, the Kodiak-3 is superior to the Atlas in virtually most circumstances.

That's not really just "standing up" to the Atlas as it's more stomping over it and then some.

[Khosumi]

Deathlike, on 17 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

To be fair, the Kodiak-3 is superior to the Atlas in virtually most circumstances.

That's not really just "standing up" to the Atlas as it's more stomping over it and then some.

Same thing could be said before the kodiak was around. we had literally nothing to have an "even" fight, they had Atlas, we had what, gargs? The exec is the only thing closest to 100 and it's.. Not up to par.. to put it gently.

Although sure, the kodiak is a strong mech, we don't have the advantages of the inner sphere quirks, ie fast burning lasers and low alpha heat.

Sustaining fire on that UAC20 gets very hot very quickly, there's ways to defeat the kodiak. YOu just have to know how to deal with them, it's not that horrible.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ethak, on 17 October 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Sustaining fire on that UAC20 gets very hot very quickly, there's ways to defeat the kodiak.

If your Kodiak is running UAC20s, you aren't running Kodiaks correctly, either way, Kodiaks should be melting down Atlases.

[Dimento Graven]

Ethak, on 17 October 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Same thing could be said before the kodiak was around. we had literally nothing to have an "even" fight, they had Atlas, we had what, gargs? The exec is the only thing closest to 100 and it's.. Not up to par.. to put it gently.

Although sure, the kodiak is a strong mech, we don't have the advantages of the inner sphere quirks, ie fast burning lasers and low alpha heat.

Sustaining fire on that UAC20 gets very hot very quickly, there's ways to defeat the kodiak. YOu just have to know how to deal with them, it's not that horrible.

Wait... DWF's can't brawl an Atlas? Seriously?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 17 October 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Wait... DWF's can't brawl an Atlas? Seriously?

They haven't been able to for a long time.....not sure why that is surprising. Brawl implying both are already within 270m.

Sure maybe in a 1v1 in might pull it off, but the moment there are more players on the field and within that range, the Whale just falls apart.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 17 October 2016 - 11:29 AM.

[Papaspud]

Ethak, on 17 October 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

Same thing could be said before the kodiak was around. we had literally nothing to have an "even" fight, they had Atlas, we had what, gargs? The exec is the only thing closest to 100 and it's.. Not up to par.. to put it gently.

Although sure, the kodiak is a strong mech, we don't have the advantages of the inner sphere quirks, ie fast burning lasers and low alpha heat.

Sustaining fire on that UAC20 gets very hot very quickly, there's ways to defeat the kodiak. YOu just have to know how to deal with them, it's not that horrible.

No, the kodiak is a face melter, if it isn't for you then you are doing it wrong....CUAC20...hahaha

[Dimento Graven]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 17 October 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

They haven't been able to for a long time.....not sure why that is surprising. Brawl implying both are already within 270m.

Sure maybe in a 1v1 in might pull it off, but the moment there are more players on the field and within that range, the Whale just falls apart.

My experience the same is said for the FATlas, or pretty much any 'mech that's focused.

Given that the typical DWF alpha is much larger and longer range than the typical Atlas build (that I've seen anyway), I'd give the edge the DWF.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Dimento Graven, on 17 October 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

Given that the typical DWF alpha is much larger and longer range than the typical Atlas build (that I've seen anyway), I'd give the edge the DWF.

That means they aren't brawling. Sure if the Whale catches it outside of 270m it might be a different story, but that isn't brawling, that is receiving a brawl push. In a brawl the Whale is nowhere near the power of an Atlas.

[METAL SEPARATOR]

I say don't nerf anything. If Kodiak is OP - let it be. It's even more fun taking down an overpowered mech.