33 replies to this topic

[Myray]

randomize map and let us just vote for game mode all problems solved in my opinion

[Red Shrike]

MrMadguy, on 15 October 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:

Ask yourself a question. If there are so many players, wanting other maps, than this threes best ones, why don't they win voting then? Actually ingame voting - is best way to ask players, what they want. Cuz only vocal minority usually posts something on forums. Listening to their "echo-chambering" - is big mistake.

I'd be interested in seeing you come up with a revised forest colony and polar highlands (or any of the other maps you consider sub-par). "revert back" and "remove" are not an option mind you. And please do draw pictures.

Edited by Red Shrike, 16 October 2016 - 03:55 AM.

[El Bandito]

Maps and modes can go back to being random, if it will help player retention and be overall beneficial to the game. I won't complain.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

MrMadguy, on 15 October 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:

Ask yourself a question. If there are so many players, wanting other maps, than this threes best ones, why don't they win voting then? Actually ingame voting - is best way to ask players, what they want. Cuz only vocal minority usually posts something on forums. Listening to their "echo-chambering" - is big mistake.

Most voted does not equal best. There have been times since voting became a thing when Bog was one of the most voted maps, and that was back when the major terrain features were only accessible from one side- making it one of the least balanced maps throughout its time in the spotlight. Likewise Alpine, where one side spawned much closer to Mt. Campmore and thus could gain an early advantage. By your logic, merely being voted on more made those maps better...

However, even though Bog got tweaked to make the hills accessible from both sides, and the spawns on Alpine were readjusted- objectively improving both maps- and even though HPG, Canyon, and Collective have not been changed at all, the latter three have still become more popular while the former two have become less so. Other once-favorites like Crimson and Tourmaline (both among the most well-regarded maps) have fallen out of favor, despite also not having changed. Hmm. It's almost as though the community favorites of any given period are decided by something other than the relative quality of maps!

With voting, especially with multipliers, you can make an educated guess as to the map you'll be dropping on, which not only results in stagnation and player burnout (how many times can you repeat the same drop on the same map and not get bored stiff?), but also negatively affects build variety (knowing a given map is more likely to be selected means you are likely to select only the builds which perform well on that map), and generally leads to shorter match times (as players know what is going to happen before the game even starts).

Random map selection has the advantages of variety and fairness. Randomization kept things fresh, even if that meant sometimes having to drop on maps you didn't like. Part of the challenge of a game like this is being adaptable. I was in favor of voting when PGI implemented it, but the effect has been negative rather than positive. It is time to call this a failed experiment and move on.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I am totally for getting rid of the Map Voting. This map already has to few maps in it and having about half or more of the locked away behind the vote just makes the game get old, even faster.

[MrMadguy]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 16 October 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

Most voted does not equal best. There have been times since voting became a thing when Bog was one of the most voted maps, and that was back when the major terrain features were only accessible from one side- making it one of the least balanced maps throughout its time in the spotlight. Likewise Alpine, where one side spawned much closer to Mt. Campmore and thus could gain an early advantage. By your logic, merely being voted on more made those maps better...

However, even though Bog got tweaked to make the hills accessible from both sides, and the spawns on Alpine were readjusted- objectively improving both maps- and even though HPG, Canyon, and Collective have not been changed at all, the latter three have still become more popular while the former two have become less so. Other once-favorites like Crimson and Tourmaline (both among the most well-regarded maps) have fallen out of favor, despite also not having changed. Hmm. It's almost as though the community favorites of any given period are decided by something other than the relative quality of maps!

With voting, especially with multipliers, you can make an educated guess as to the map you'll be dropping on, which not only results in stagnation and player burnout (how many times can you repeat the same drop on the same map and not get bored stiff?), but also negatively affects build variety (knowing a given map is more likely to be selected means you are likely to select only the builds which perform well on that map), and generally leads to shorter match times (as players know what is going to happen before the game even starts).

Random map selection has the advantages of variety and fairness. Randomization kept things fresh, even if that meant sometimes having to drop on maps you didn't like. Part of the challenge of a game like this is being adaptable. I was in favor of voting when PGI implemented it, but the effect has been negative rather than positive. It is time to call this a failed experiment and move on.

This is your problem - when something happens, you don't even know, why it happens. This crap with Viridian Bog was happening due to "force unpopular maps" feature, that was trying to bring 4 least popular maps for voting. This fact is confirmed by PGI - you can dig "Twitter newsfeed" thread to find a confirmation. That's why Viridian Bog and some other crappy maps were so popular back then - they were actually "best of the worst". When this feature was removed - map rotation became normal. I don't know, when it happened, cuz I wasn't playing this game, when it happened - I had quit exactly due to this feature. Here are some screenshots from that time, They are not cherry picked - it's real map rotation from that time. As you can see, 2-3 maps of 4 were always crappy and Viridian Bog was best option in most cases.

[El Bandito]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 16 October 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

However, even though Bog got tweaked to make the hills accessible from both sides, and the spawns on Alpine were readjusted- objectively improving both maps- and even though HPG, Canyon, and Collective have not been changed at all, the latter three have still become more popular while the former two have become less so.

HPG, Canyon, and Mining are known for their "fair" layout, perfect for MP arena style game such as MWO. Hence their popularity.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

HPG, Canyon, and Mining are known for their "fair" layout, perfect for MP arena style game such as MWO. Hence their popularity.

And that is all this game will ever be.

[El Bandito]

Mystere, on 16 October 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

And that is all this game will ever be.

Correct.

[l3elthaz0r]

I tend to vote for maps which have good visibility and not a lot of movement blocking obstacles. Terra therma, caustic, river city, viridian bog and forest colony for are either really bad on visibility of have a lot of things hindering my movement. I also wish mining colony was brighter. I know folks will say use thermal or night vision, but i'm not really fond of playing the whole game with a green tinge or grey. Night vision and thermal should be situational like entering a dark tunnel or something, not because the whole damned map is cluttered with trees and vines and pitch black.

Edited by l3elthaz0r, 16 October 2016 - 10:43 PM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

HPG, Canyon, and Mining are known for their "fair" layout, perfect for MP arena style game such as MWO. Hence their popularity.

They are also free of the annoying clutter that makes moving around on Forest or the earlier Bog so frustrating.

[Mystere]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

Correct.

But that does not mean we cannot poke needles at PGI and the mindless arena folks from time to time.

[JadePanther]

used to be random till the forum minority warriors got them to put voting in.. now its usually the same old **** all the time.

[Oldbob10025]

The problem is human nature where in general human nature always picks the easy route in anything. The three maps being voted on over and over and over again are the best visibility, lots of stuff to peek and shoot from, and have reduce heat overall.

Most people dont want to have a challenge (most people so dont get your panties in a bunch). Yes the forum warriors wanted map voting and so it got placed but now the system is not working were every map gets a random chance to play on, but the easy maps that people can shine and not have any challenge at all.

The best and fair system would be to have random maps to stop the majority of people only picking the easy maps and have it random as well.

Just my two cents and you can love it or hate it but would be one of the best ways to fix it. Lets here some CONSTRUCTIVE comments and no personal attacks on the subject from everyone..