16 replies to this topic

[Spunkmaster]

Hi Folks,

I've been playing for a couple of months now. I've mastered three chassis (1 Clan light & 2 IS mediums). As I move on to my next mastery, I want to keep the idea of drop decks in mind. I figure, by the time I get 4 chassis from the same tech mastered, I should be somewhat ready for CW.

What are the advantages & disadvantages, if any, of choosing Clan or IS over the other for my first venture into CW?

Thanks!

~Spunkmaster

[S 0 L E N Y A]

General rule-

Clan: more guns for less weight. Longer range.

IS: much more heat efficient and better weapon dynamics.

[Spunkmaster]

Thanks!

I get the differences between the 'Mechs. I was wondering if there were any inherent differences between Clan and IS factions. In other words, are there any reasons to choose between Clan and IS factions besides the 'Mechs allowed?

[TercieI]

CW is really pretty dead. If you're hoping it'll be your focus, I think you'll be disappointed. Focus on getting good mechs you like regardless of tech base.

[JC Daxion]

Spunkmaster, on 15 October 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

Thanks!

I get the differences between the 'Mechs. I was wondering if there were any inherent differences between Clan and IS factions. In other words, are there any reasons to choose between Clan and IS factions besides the 'Mechs allowed?

No, mechs are the only reason to choose.

I will add, Clan is much cheaper/easier to get a few mechs, then play tons of different drop decks, and load outs because of omni mechs. IS, while you can get 6 mechs cheaper to play in your drop deck, you will be more limited in how you set them up.

My drop deck for instance in clan, are 2 timbers, 1 stormcrow, 1 Shadow cat.. that is 9 mechs to unlock masters.

My IS drop deck is Stalker, thunder bolt, Centurion, Cicada (i think i was running that for a while) But at any rate, that is 12 mechs.. But i am limited by what i can run, if i wanna swap out to others, which i do, i add another 6-9-12 mechs.. My clan deck i just swap some omni pods and i'm good to go.

I should also note, that the cost of the clan deck is probably 100m,, the IS deck is maybe 70m? that is not including modules.. So another 30-40m can really make a very flexible IS deck, basically coming in around the cost of the clan deck as you are saving money by swapping around engines and such

[Void Angel]

You should source and math out those numbers - it's quite rare for Clan 'mechs to cost more than their Inner Sphere counterparts once mastered - the Clans cost more up front because they come pre-upgraded. With the hard-locked equipment, the need for IS to generally buy larger engines v. the ability to sell them, etc... It works out to about the same. The only time this doesn't hold true is when the Clan 'mech comes with a very large engine; we're talking the Kodiak or Executioner, for example. A difference of as much as 40 million c-bills in your drop deck costs suggests that you're using stock prices somewhere, which won't accurately approximate the true costs.

Spunkmaster, on 15 October 2016 - 04:37 PM, said:

Thanks!

I get the differences between the 'Mechs. I was wondering if there were any inherent differences between Clan and IS factions. In other words, are there any reasons to choose between Clan and IS factions besides the 'Mechs allowed?

Not... really - at least, not now. Faction Play is a major focus for the PGI people who do that sort of thing (making 'mechs uses different technical specialties; bear that in mind when you see people chiming in with "want to buy a 'mech pack?" Insanity is to be feared) - and they're planning changes to the Faction system as well as the mechanics in Faction Play. Once you've played enough, you'll have a 'mech stable that's robust enough to swap between Clan and Inner Sphere factions, so I'd recommend starting out with whatever 'mechs you've enjoyed more, and then join a merc unit or go Freelance - after you've had a little experience, you can decide whether or not you want to go Clan/Inner Sphere loyalist.

[CJ Daxion]

Void Angel, on 15 October 2016 - 06:13 PM, said:

You should source and math out those numbers - it's quite rare for Clan 'mechs to cost more than their Inner Sphere counterparts once mastered - the Clans cost more up front because they come pre-upgraded. With the hard-locked equipment, the need for IS to generally buy larger engines v. the ability to sell them, etc...

Right,, But if you are only going to use one of them, you only need one engine, and only need to buy upgrades once too, just use no upgrades and swap engines to level the ones you don't plan on using. (though i always say don't sell mechs, because you don't get much, if you have the extra cash to pick up a 7 dollar MC pack it's worth it, even if you don't plan on using the mech at the time, In the future you might want to)

But say you wan't to add a Raven to your deck. the ravens are going to cost a little over 10m, then buy endo/ferro/doubles which costs around 2.2m on a raven? then the engine which is another 4m i think, 16-17m for say a 3L. While an ARC would cost you around 22m or so.. But if you factor in modules, because the raven can hold more, it actually would cost more in the end.

Now something like a thunder bolt, that's about 16m for 3, then another 5-6m to set up so maybe 22m+ modules, again it holds more, so boost up to maybe 35-40m?.. A timber would cost you 45m just for the 3, then set up another few mill, then modules, boosts it 15-18m more. so in this case a single TDR, would actually cost you about 20m less than getting a single timber ready.

But yea,, If you buy engines for all, and upgrades, in the end it comes out around the same. IS because of the extra modules, can cost 5m+ more than your typical clanner when just comparing a single mech IS verse Clan. An IS mech, can at times have 22-25m+ in modules, Many clanners will only have 18m.

So yes, IS is cheaper,,, But then again, IS is also more expensive.. I know it is strange but true


grab a calculator, and check this site out.. for all your adding up needs for your mechs http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Edited by CJ Daxion, 15 October 2016 - 09:36 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

In that case, I would firstsuggest you find a group that drops into CW regularly

[Void Angel]

Oh go smurf yourself - as if I didn't know what Smurfy's was. I asked you for numbers because it was your claim. And your claim has... problems. For example, here are literally only seven 'mechs^_* in the entire game that are mechanically capable of exceeding 24million in module costs - and all of them^** are Locusts. Insert comment about calculator here.

Now, modules are rather an iffy proposition to include in 'mech purchase costs, particularly when you're talking to new players about Faction Play. For 'mech modules like Seismic and Radar Deprivation, only a tiny handful of Inner Sphere 'mechs have more than one, just like Clan 'mechs, so it's not correct to treat the Inner Sphere as having more. Ditto with weapon modules: sure, the Timber Wolf and Stormcrow only have one, but most Clan 'mechs have two - just like most Inner Sphere 'mechs. Of the Inner Sphere 'mechs that have more than three weapon module slots, you're looking at such worthies as the Locust (because yeah, I have space for three different weapon types,) a Cataphract no one uses, a Trebuchet of some kind... the Atlas D-DC only has one. So really, the Inner Sphere does not have more modules, as a rule, than the Clans do. Which means that the actual difference in module costs between the tech bases is... usually zero. Exceptions exist, but they prove the rule, and generally don't take practicality into account.

Similarly, there's nearly always three decent variants of a chassis; for every Spider, there's a Locust, with multiple effective variants - and in practical terms you will probably never need three Ebon Jaguars. You will certainly never need three Timber Wolves, so you can ditch one of them. The same is true of every Clan 'mech that you find - particularly the Assaults, because tonnage limits. So while you can find exceptions, they prove the general rule: while Clans are more expensive to adopt in the short term, in the long run there's really not much difference.

The only significant difference is really which tech base you prefer to use. If the Inner Sphere's weapons and 'mechs appeal to you, adopt them first - or the Clans, if you enjoy them better. There's really no other difference.

_*: there are 335 unique variants in the game.
_**: only 38 'mechs in the game are able to exceed 18million in total module costs: seven can reach 27million, six can reach 21million, and the remaining 25 can reach 24million. This means that only 2.1%, 1.8%, and 7.5% (11.3% total) of all variants deviate upward from the standard maximum module cost of 18million c-bills.

PS: Dangit, Boogie!

Edited by Void Angel, 16 October 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

CJ Daxion, on 15 October 2016 - 09:33 PM, said:

Right,, But if you are only going to use one of them, you only need one engine, and only need to buy upgrades once too, just use no upgrades and swap engines to level the ones you don't plan on using.

Only having one engine for a chassis will not work if you intend to use more than one variant for FW. It also presumes that the same size engine is optimal for each variant, and usually that is not the case.

Also, running a mech with "no upgrades" is a horrible idea, ESPECIALLY for FW. If you cannot afford to run it the right way, then use something that is optimized until you have the cash.

[Hunka Junk]

I'd google "best clan drop decks" or "best IS drop decks" so that you can see what mechs are being used. I say this because the first chassis I mastered was Arctic Cheetah only to find that it wasn't being used in CW.

That said, now is a very precarious time to be making decisions about CW because the entire format will be imminently wiped and replaced with a new format where nobody really knows what will become standard.

A safe bet instead of mechs is to grind 4x radar derp and 4x seismic sensors. Barring a sale, that's 48 million cbills (not to mention something like 22k GXP) and, given that the other modules are so lackluster, they're almost certainly going to be the go to ones to equip.

And now for the short answer to your question: clan mechs come way closer to being ready to run straight out of the box. Whenever I buy trios of IS mechs, I inevitably go broke in the middle of upgrading them.

[Void Angel]

You can use the ACH; in fact, Inner Sphere Lights kinda hate it when one shows up, because they're used to being the strongest fast movers. But since the ACH doesn't fit in well with the most popular drop decks, it's not used as often. Don't let that stop you, though! If you're not in a regular team that has a drop plan that requires different 'mechs, you can use a Cheetah, a Hellbringer for ECM, and two Timber Wolves for a 245-ton deck.

[CJ Daxion]

Boogie138, on 16 October 2016 - 12:41 AM, said:

Only having one engine for a chassis will not work if you intend to use more than one variant for FW. It also presumes that the same size engine is optimal for each variant, and usually that is not the case.

Also, running a mech with "no upgrades" is a horrible idea, ESPECIALLY for FW. If you cannot afford to run it the right way, then use something that is optimized until you have the cash.

I think you missed my point.... I was talking about leveling mechs you did not plan to use past basics.. And if you are not going to do that, it is just wasted money. If you have permium and use your once a day double XP bonuses, you can do it pretty fast, even with out having the mech totally optimized

Edited by CJ Daxion, 17 October 2016 - 06:17 AM.

[CJ Daxion]

Void Angel, on 16 October 2016 - 12:02 AM, said:

_*: there are 335 unique variants in the game.
_**: only 38 'mechs in the game are able to exceed 18million in total module costs: seven can reach 27million, six can reach 21million, and the remaining 25 can reach 24million. This means that only 2.1%, 1.8%, and 7.5% (11.3% total) of all variants deviate upward from the standard maximum module cost of 18million c-bills.

PS: Dangit, Boogie!

Most of the mechs i play all have 3 mech modules, and 2 weapon.. radar dep- 6m. seismic- 6m, target decay- 6m, then add 3m each weapons for weapons. that adds up to 24m.. (some mechs i swap to hill climb if they dont have JJ's over target decay so +6m.. So yea,, most of my IS mechs have an extra 4-6m added. So i was just trying to explain the cost difference for many IS mechs.

My Clan side, I run radar dep and hill climb, Or target decay/ info gathering if they have JJ's

I run Commando, cicada, HBK, centurion, atlas, as my top used mechs.. In fact most of the mechs i play often have 3 mech slots. Maybe the mechs you play most only have 2.. But mine have 3, and i add that in..

I also get sick and tired of moving modules and engines, so i try to buy them and keep them in my most played mechs, so i think of that as a "mech cost". I also keep my mechs loaded up and ready to go, So while you may not techically NEED 3 or 5 mechs.. I always keep mine. I'd rather just buy a bay, and keep a mech, verse sell something that could take me 10-15 hours to earn back. You know, save that money and buy another module verse buying back a sold mech.

and lastly, while i did quote you, the majority of my post was for the OP, who is new I figured you know what smurfy is... But if you really like, i could post the total cost of my most used IS mechs, and show that they cost more than my most used clanners which was the point i was trying to make.

Edited by CJ Daxion, 17 October 2016 - 06:15 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Concidering you at current have 2 IS medium chassis and 1 Clan Light then based on current 250 ton (subject to change) dropdecks I would suggest concidering what tonage you have available,

For Clan something like the Ebon Jaguar or Helbringer (or if the Light is a Mist Lynx the Timber Wolf would be an option) would allow you to use 3 with your Light and get an instant Dropdeck which you can enhance with other Mechs later.

As for the IS Mechs, 2 mediums means you likely have around 130-160 tons assuming you like both. If I was you I would look at the Marauder and/or Warhammer, both are great Mechs which would offer something a bit bigger, or you could take 3 Mediums with an assualt.

On the other hand bear in mind just because you can use 250 tons does not meen you must or even should, if you are confidant with then any 4 medium Mechs will meet the 160 ton minimum tonnage requirement, unfortunately you need at least 1 heavier Mech to go with 3 lights and meet minimum tonnage

[Void Angel]

CJ, You can't address someone directly and expect them to assume you're talking to someone else, man. Doesn't work that way.

Plus your particular 'mech stable is not at all representative of the entire Inner Sphere or the Clans, particularly for Community Warfare Faction Play - nor are your preferences about module reallocation. We are advising a new player who owns a whopping three Battlemechs at present, remember? You enjoy your Centurion, we both still play our Hunchbacks - but those are simply not the recognized leaders in Battlemech effectiveness right now. I enjoy my Hunchbacks because I've played a lot of matches in them, through thick and thin; I can make them work, despite other 'mechs being mechanically superior. For a new player, the decision is much more general, and we shouldn't base blanket statements about the game on our personal preferences.

Edited by Void Angel, 17 October 2016 - 11:49 AM.

[CJ Daxion]

Yes i realize that, which is why i gave a broad answer about prices, and linked smurfy, and told him of my own experiences playing the game and CW.. Not exactly sure what info i gave that was wrong or bad, and no clue what is wrong with my IS and clan deck's.

My post all boils down to IS can be cheaper or more expensive depending on how you look at it, and why. The lack of diversity in builds can make them more expensive in the end if you want to have different play styles because you need to own more mechs.

Clans while more expensive up front, can actually be cheaper in the long run because of the omni system and So buying 3 mechs, can take the place of many IS mechs. IS Mechs can push costs higher because of upgrades, engines and modules especially if you don't want to do a ton of swapping. But if you only want to use one IS mech from a particular chassis, they can be cheaper than clans and why. Isn't that good info for a new player to have?

Edited by CJ Daxion, 17 October 2016 - 01:18 PM.