26 replies to this topic

[Maqi]

can someone explain to me why it is not possible to mount clan weapons on IS mechs and IS weapons on clan mechs?
what is the decision behind this apart trying to make the game as anti fun as possible?
imagine of all the builds on IS mechs that would become viable or just plain better if they could mount and use clan weapons and tech.
i can understand that clan xl engines, targeting computers and clan double heatsinks should remain exclusive to clan mechs, but weapons and some equipment like the clan ECM and clan active probe should be perfectly compatible with IS chassis, as they have always been in any Mechwarrior and Mechcommander games.
hell, the entire point and the most amount of fun in previous Mechwarrior and Mechcommander games was to acquire different tech and mix it together and experiment.
this is a Battletech game after all isnt it?
then why do you lock players away from the fun that could be had by mixing tech?
all you need to do is edit the quirks to be generic missile, generic laser, generic ballistic and generic ppc bonuses and enable all chassis to mount weapons and equipment that are of both clan and IS origin and thats it, done.
you are just too lazy to edit an xml file and you dont do it because its more important to just keep pumping out mechpacks one after the other?
well, news flash PGI: mechpacks are not content, its the same stale old mechs with just a different shape and chassis name that run the same old boring weapons.
im especially looking at you Russ and your big-content-release-totally-not-a-mechpack™ that turned out to be clan heroes, the same old stale mechs with some swapped around omnipods and a paintjob.
new content is something innovative like new weapons, new game modes, new maps or in this case, mix tech that in my opinion would be the easiest to implement.

[Y E O N N E]

Because that would make the game completely homogeneous and boring versus only mostly homogeneous and boring. Nobody would ever take the IS gear save for a few items (Large Pulse, AC/20, UAC/5).

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 October 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

Because that would make the game completely homogeneous and boring versus only mostly homogeneous and boring. Nobody would ever take the IS gear save for a few items (Large Pulse, AC/20, UAC/5).

It's doable to change and address balance (which is preferred IMO) to balance for mixtech (even if we never get it set up that way). Otherwise, the differences between IS and Clan are magnified for all the wrong reasons. (What is the point of taking a IS LL when the CERMED outright better?)

Edited by Deathlike, 16 October 2016 - 12:24 AM.

[Maqi]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 October 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

Because that would make the game completely homogeneous and boring

yeah because the game totally isnt boring now, right?

[El Bandito]

Maqi, on 16 October 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

yeah because the game totally isnt boring now, right?

No need to make it worse then.

[pyrocomp]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 05:51 AM, said:

No need to make it worse then.

Not sure this is an argument to bring to devs attention.

[Bombast]

Because it just muddles everything further. If you allow clan tech on IS mechs, then the only difference is the construction materials (CL, Ferro, Endo, DHS), which means Clan mechs are still superior, so we still need quirks, so we're back to exactly where we are now.

Of course, then you can ask 'What if we allow IS mechs to use clan construction materials,' at which point the question is 'Why are there Inner Sphere mechs in the first place.'

I dunno, maybe it would actually work.

[Maqi]

Bombast, on 16 October 2016 - 06:08 AM, said:

Because it just muddles everything further. If you allow clan tech on IS mechs, then the only difference is the construction materials (CL, Ferro, Endo, DHS), which means Clan mechs are still superior, so we still need quirks, so we're back to exactly where we are now.

Of course, then you can ask 'What if we allow IS mechs to use clan construction materials,' at which point the question is 'Why are there Inner Sphere mechs in the first place.'

I dunno, maybe it would actually work.

do you have reading comprehension issues?
i think i said it clearly:

Quote

clan xl engines, targeting computers and clan double heatsinks should remain exclusive to clan mechs

[Maqi]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 05:51 AM, said:

No need to make it worse then.

how can mixed tech possibly make the game more boring than it is now.
how.
explain it to me.
all the possibilities and new builds that would come out to be possible with mixed tech.
how is that boring?
i would believe you more if you just said it clearly that you just dont want IS mechs to run your precious clan tech in the fear that some IS mechs might actually become viable with clan tech.

[El Bandito]

Maqi, on 16 October 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

how can mixed tech possibly make the game more boring than it is now.
how.
explain it to me.
all the possibilities and new builds that would come out to be possible with mixed tech.
how is that boring?
i would believe you more if you just said it clearly that you just dont want IS mechs to run your precious clan tech in the fear that some IS mechs might actually become viable with clan tech.

1. Wipe the scum outta yer eyes and look. I am an IS loyalist. I played more FP matches, defending IS against Clans than your account ever did.

2. Allowing both sides access to both tech will mean only the best of both tech will be used--making battlemechs exactly same in everything but the looks. Which reduces variety and and makes it even more boring.

PGI needs to balance the base tech between factions. That is much better solution than yours.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 October 2016 - 08:25 AM.

[Bombast]

Maqi, on 16 October 2016 - 06:32 AM, said:

do you have reading comprehension issues?
i think i said it clearly:

I dunno, can you read?

Bombast, on 16 October 2016 - 06:08 AM, said:

Because it just muddles everything further. If you allow clan tech on IS mechs, then the only difference is the construction materials (CL, Ferro, Endo, DHS), which means Clan mechs are still superior, so we still need quirks, so we're back to exactly where we are now.

[CheeseThief]

Maqi, on 16 October 2016 - 06:35 AM, said:

how can mixed tech possibly make the game more boring than it is now.
how.
explain it to me.

Because no one in their right mind would ever use most of the IS weapons ever again.

In a mixed tech world, what person in their right mind would bring 1 IS LRM20, instead of 2 C LRM20's?
IS MLs over CERMLs or CERSL?
ISERLL instead of CERLL?
IS LBX or Gauss instead of the better clan tech equivalents?

Why would you bother using any of those weapons on Clan chassis when you could throw them on IS mechs that have quirks that turn them into bricks?


Turning half the weapons in the game into legacy tech does not a more fun environment make.

[Maqi]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

making battlemechs exactly same in everything but the look.

no. because clans will still have exclusive access to clan xl engines, targeting computers, clan double heatsinks and omnipod technology.
it will give more freedom to build and experiment different builds, and thus more variety to the game, something that is desperately lacking.

[Tibbnak]

Is doesn't need clan tech.

IS needs:
Heavy PPC, Light PPC, Snub Nosed ppc, Plasma rifle, Ultra AC/2 /10 /20, LBX 2/5/20, rotary ac/2 and /5, light gauss rifle, heavy gauss rifle, heavy machinegun, streak srm 4/6, MRM 10/20/30/40, Multi missile launcher 3/5/7/9, rocket launcher 10/15/20, long tom, Sniper, and Thumper, PPC inhibitor toggles, heavy/light ferro fibrous, Stealth armor, XL/compact/heavyduty gyros, XXL engines, Light engines, compact engines, Blue Shield Particle Field Damper, Triple strength myomer, melee weapons of all sorts that completely replace arms, shields, quadruped rigs for increasing tonnage at cost of max critical slots, and Targeting computers

Edit: also silver bullet gauss, though that's sort of a prototype niche experimental weapon. Basically a gauss that shoots lbx-style.

Edited by Tibbnak, 16 October 2016 - 07:06 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Maqi, on 16 October 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

yeah because the game totally isnt boring now, right?

It's almost like you didn't read my whole post or something...

Deathlike, on 16 October 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

It's doable to change and address balance (which is preferred IMO) to balance for mixtech (even if we never get it set up that way). Otherwise, the differences between IS and Clan are magnified for all the wrong reasons. (What is the point of taking a IS LL when the CERMED outright better?)

We have tech differences for all the wrong reasons, but mix-tech achieves balance for all the wrong reasons, too. Meh.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 October 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

We have tech differences for all the wrong reasons, but mix-tech achieves balance for all the wrong reasons, too. Meh.

Well, balancing IS DHS and Clan DHS is a much tougher assignment.... let alone Clan vs IS FF.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 October 2016 - 12:19 AM, said:

Because that would make the game completely homogeneous and boring versus only mostly homogeneous and boring. Nobody would ever take the IS gear save for a few items (Large Pulse, AC/20, UAC/5).

That says alot on its own.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 16 October 2016 - 08:04 AM, said:

Well, balancing IS DHS and Clan DHS is a much tougher assignment.... let alone Clan vs IS FF.

The heat-sinks are actually less complicated than they appear, to the point where you don't necessarily have to touch them at all. You could leave them with identical stats, and just make sure all of the IS weapons generate that much less heat.

FF is just stupid. I don't really have any immediate ideas on that one, it was really poorly conceived just like the rest of the Clans.

[Bombast]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

FF is just stupid. I don't really have any immediate ideas on that one, it was really poorly conceived just like the rest of the Clans.

FF is basically just fluff given stats. It was a way to improve mechs through refit, so from a lore perspective, it makes sense that is exists and is used, even if from a stat sheet perspective it doesn't. It also plays really well into a Mechwarrior RPG game set during the invasion.

But yah, doesn't make much sense in a game like this.

[Deathlike]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 October 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

The heat-sinks are actually less complicated than they appear, to the point where you don't necessarily have to touch them at all. You could leave them with identical stats, and just make sure all of the IS weapons generate that much less heat.

That doesn't really work.

Say we are trying to have the next IS mech being an equivalent to the Kodiak-3 as closely as possible, with the dual Gauss+ERPPC build (dakka would be a vastly different discussion for sure). Besides the virtually non-existent "differences" (outside of Clan Gauss being better 99.9% of the time), you won't be able to fit the same # of DHS than the Clan equivalent.

This might as well be an extreme case, but it highlights problems with that fundamental assertion (this is before we talk about dealing with IS vs Clan XL/Endo/FF and many other differences).

Quote

FF is just stupid. I don't really have any immediate ideas on that one, it was really poorly conceived just like the rest of the Clans.

It's just one of many things that has to be dealt with when it comes to these discussions. It's not as simple.