206 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

sneeking, on 16 October 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

I never said buffing was ok...
Why plant words i never typed ?
One is bad as the other and each is one and the same thing respective to each other relatively.

Well, two reasons. First, you mentioned nerfing specifically, instead of saying you were opposed to balancing. And second, I find that being opposed to all kinds of balancing (both buffing and nerfing) is an indefensible position, although I did respond to that as well. I actually responded to both alternatives, since it wasn't clear which one you were advocating.

[sneeking]

Tristan dont be so dam pedantic..

[Tristan Winter]

<sigh>

[Y E O N N E]

Ghogiel, on 16 October 2016 - 08:22 AM, said:

Who decided rickrom was good XD? Anyway that is a gross generalisation of their many different playstyles imo. Most of those players you listed actually do use pug assets quite well imo.

EmP decided he was good, apparently.

When running solo, the primary aim of most of these players is to grind out c-bills or event requirements, sometimes chassis XP. All that matters to that end is that they get a high score, not necessarily that they win. Getting a high score can and does help the win, but not when your high score comes at the expense of the team taking your share of the enemy's attention or when you actively direct them into unfavorable battles so you can farm up (I've seen Heim do this).

This also happens in group queue, but less so.

And it's not like I don't have direct experience with the matter, either. There is a general apathy toward the majority of the player-base in the top-tier competitive scene that feeds this callous attitude. Even in AS, my previous unit, the attitude was there. There's a term for it: "PUG armor."

That being said, yes, they do have many playstyles. Everybody does. I never said it was their exclusive playstyle, but it is one I see deployed frequently. It was pervasive when they were all still leveling Night Gyrs. It was pervasive for the longest time after the Kodiak released. And this isn't to say some of these players aren't great people, because many of them are. But when they don't know you, you are just another 'Mech on the field and they don't really care.

Viktor Drake, on 16 October 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

As far as the competitive meta, who cares. 90% of us don't play in the competitive meta and I am sick of having the game I do play, get totally destroyed to accommodate 10% or less of player that make up the competitive scene.

The game is getting totally destroyed because they are trying to cater to the 90% who have no idea what is broken and why it is broken instead of listening to the 10% who do. Those 10% have far more of a vested interest in having varied and interesting game than the other 90%, because nobody likes playing or watching homogeneous competitive games.

[Deathlike]

sneeking, on 16 October 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

Tristan dont be so dam pedantic..

But he has a point....

In order to have diverse gameplay, things will have to be buffed and nerfed appropriately... or otherwise the meta goes in a particular direction of mechs that are optimal for that. Having more options is better than having "the only option" for success. Of course, if you don't give a damn about success... don't complain about the meta.

Balance will never be perfect, but keeping the status quo of having something borked (good or bad) does not help the game in the long run, nor PGI's mechpack system.

[sneeking]

I think the mechs should be what they are and once ya bought them they shouldn't change. The paid content should be the events where certain mechs have natural advantages and disadvantages, working in teams gives a natural balance.

[Deathlike]

sneeking, on 16 October 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I think the mechs should be what they are and once ya bought them they shouldn't change. The paid content should be the events where certain mechs have natural advantages and disadvantages, working in teams gives a natural balance.

So.. if a hero mech (or any mech for that matter) was created with the best quirks... it shouldn't change ever?

It would give PGI the bad name for P2W accusations (if there weren't already) and you can't just "leave things as is" once you release it.

This assumes balance is done properly to prevent this in the first place (which is not even close to the case, let alone done iteratively to counteract that notion).

I mean, we could leave the Mist Lynx quirkless like it was originally was and leave it to suck forever?

I'm sure that'll help people wanting to go back to the old mechpack schemes....

[sneeking]

I don't like the quirk system.

The mechs should all just be base hardware.

[Deathlike]

sneeking, on 16 October 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

I don't like the quirk system.

The mechs should all just be base hardware.

The Mist Lynx still sucked with its base hardware, even when we didn't have any quirks for it (and others for that matter). Why use a Lolcust or Commando when the Arctic Cheetah would be outright superior w/o quirks?

Even if you wanted no quirks, you'd have to fix other aspects of the bad mechs, and it would take a lot more effort on PGI's end (in which they are less than willing to do) to accomplish this.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 October 2016 - 09:02 AM.

[sneeking]

I preferred the style of play pre quirks, in the pre fall damage era before extreme lite penalties the implementation of quirks gave rise to huginn god mode and the inevitable nerf that ruined a lovely mech which many of us paid good money for..

The quirk system ruined good mechs and gave me a point of view that prevents me buying any more mechs.

[Ghogiel]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 October 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

EmP decided he was good, apparently.

When running solo, the primary aim of most of these players is to grind out c-bills or event requirements, sometimes chassis XP. All that matters to that end is that they get a high score, not necessarily that they win. Getting a high score can and does help the win, but not when your high score comes at the expense of the team taking your share of the enemy's attention or when you actively direct them into unfavorable battles so you can farm up (I've seen Heim do this).

This also happens in group queue, but less so.

And it's not like I don't have direct experience with the matter, either. There is a general apathy toward the majority of the player-base in the top-tier competitive scene that feeds this callous attitude. Even in AS, my previous unit, the attitude was there. There's a term for it: "PUG armor."

That being said, yes, they do have many playstyles. Everybody does. I never said it was their exclusive playstyle, but it is one I see deployed frequently. It was pervasive when they were all still leveling Night Gyrs. It was pervasive for the longest time after the Kodiak released. And this isn't to say some of these players aren't great people, because many of them are. But when they don't know you, you are just another 'Mech on the field and they don't really care.

The team mate apathy is mostly from the potatoes and other irrelevent players as they out number good players about 1000/1. Potatoes don't even care about other potatoes.

There are rare times I don't see a lurm boat, terriscared assault or light potato hiding in the back not sharing armor nor doing dmg or off capping while 9/10 the good player on the team is already dead.

I find it odd to think that players that actually have team play experience and ability on the field are the ones who aren't playing as a team. I mean it's pugs> 10-11 players who aren't playing as a team (usually all the players who don't know anything about the game that are the ones not playing as a team.

[Deathlike]

sneeking, on 16 October 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

I preferred the style of play pre quirks, in the pre fall damage era before extreme lite penalties the implementation of quirks gave rise to huginn god mode and the inevitable nerf that ruined a lovely mech which many of us paid good money for..

I can tell you many mechs would be terrible (at best mediocre) if they didn't have quirks.

There's a lot more diversity in the Heavy Mech bracket... like Grasshoppers, Summoners (to a limited degree), Thunderbolts... and many others. Without the quirks, the Timberwolf and Night Gyr would probably reign supreme (again with the former) with a small smidgen of Hellbringers (which nearly have zero quirks themselves) and maybe a Ebon Jag here and there (which also doesn't have any quirks).

The diversity would truly not be there.

Quote

The quirk system ruined good mechs and gave me a point of view that prevents me buying any more mechs.

The quirk system has been rather arbitrary... making decent mechs much stronger than they need to be... bad mechs staying bad (Vindicator), and like all analogies made about balance... it's as good as rolling dice or throwing darts on a board to decide its fate.

Edited by Deathlike, 16 October 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Ghogiel, on 16 October 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

The team mate apathy is mostly from the potatoes and other irrelevent players as they out number good players about 1000/1. Potatoes don't even care about other potatoes.

There are rare times I don't see a lurm boat, terriscared assault or light potato hiding in the back not sharing armor nor doing dmg or off capping while 9/10 the good player on the team is already dead.

I find it odd to think that players that actually have team play experience and ability on the field are the ones who aren't playing as a team. I mean it's pugs> 10-11 players who aren't playing as a team (usually all the players who don't know anything about the game that are the ones not playing as a team.

It's not that strange, considering a solo match is not at all played like a competitive match. They are technically out of their element.

And 9/10, that good player in question is dead because he drifted too far from the blob or tried to stay at the back of the blob and got ganked.

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2016 - 07:46 AM, said:

2. Balancing base tech doesn't necessarily mean PGI has to nerf Clan weapon/equipment BTW. I'd rather have them buff IS equipment and weapons instead.

They already did. Those are called quirks.

[Deathlike]

Ghogiel, on 16 October 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

The team mate apathy is mostly from the potatoes and other irrelevent players as they out number good players about 1000/1. Potatoes don't even care about other potatoes.

There are rare times I don't see a lurm boat, terriscared assault or light potato hiding in the back not sharing armor nor doing dmg or off capping while 9/10 the good player on the team is already dead.

I find it odd to think that players that actually have team play experience and ability on the field are the ones who aren't playing as a team. I mean it's pugs> 10-11 players who aren't playing as a team (usually all the players who don't know anything about the game that are the ones not playing as a team.

To be fair... the current state of the solo queue provides little reason to be a "good teammate" in the traditional sense. When you have players though that you know of to be good... sometimes you get a little implicit trust from random players and are more likely to commit to a push or whatever it is called... but again, you're still trying to work with others that aren't quite willing to go with the program.

"Playing with a team" isn't quite the same as "playing as a team" and people have really loose definitions of teamwork.. especially ones that don't truly understand or exhibit it.

[meteorol]

"newest" meta?

Damn people are slow.

[dervishx5]

I died back in 2002 when I tried, as a stupid 15 year old kid, to repair the garage door by myself, didn't I?

I think it's pretty obvious I'm dead and this forum is my personal Hell: where people talk about the same crap over and over but never learn anything or move on.

I figured it out Satan. Nice try,

[sneeking]

Arbitrary throwing of darts at a board,

I am in agreement...

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

First off, let me say... i absolutelly love the fact that PPFLD is back! Im tired of people complaining about laser vomit this, TTK that...

(I am biased towards the goose peeps! i wont lie, I love it!)

If you dont like getting hit by PPFLD, use your shields! Its not like your getting hit by quick firing 70+ dmg alphas!

Let me tell you, its quite terrifing to get swarmed by a light pack when your goosing downrange. At least it is for me... Especially when my high mounted gauss cant seem to aim low enough to deal with those ravenous little buggers...

I am fairly sure, if mechs could crouch in mwo, they would teabag my dead carcus and then spray paint my dead body with some type of logo after they eviscerated me with their weapons of mass destruction!

[Ghogiel]

Deathlike, on 16 October 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

To be fair... the current state of the solo queue provides little reason to be a "good teammate" in the traditional sense. When you have players though that you know of to be good... sometimes you get a little implicit trust from random players and are more likely to commit to a push or whatever it is called... but again, you're still trying to work with others that aren't quite willing to go with the program.

"Playing with a team" isn't quite the same as "playing as a team" and people have really loose definitions of teamwork.. especially ones that don't truly understand or exhibit it.

The only point I think that guy was making is pugging is worse durings tournies and events. Which is like ALL the time these days. It has nothing to do with good players.

Edited by Ghogiel, 16 October 2016 - 09:34 AM.