27 replies to this topic

[3xnihilo]

Hey guys, I have been running some of the builds over in my head and wondered what you all thought of them. Mostly, I am curious what you think are the cost and benefits or running the different launchers with and without artemis.

[Rhialto]

Better use smurfy, I find it easier to do builds...

I currently use this build. Highest XL engine like you so I move quite fast and usually keep my distance since you see it use LRMs.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

OP, your first build is THE build for the BJ-2.

[Rhialto]

Boogie138, on 19 October 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

OP, your first build is THE build for the BJ-2.

JJ not symetrical, he will crash if he try to fly...
Ammo placements not optimal, 2 free slots next to engine.

[3xnihilo]

Rhialto, on 19 October 2016 - 02:59 PM, said:

JJ not symetrical, he will crash if he try to fly...
Ammo placements not optimal, 2 free slots next to engine.

Lol, it would be funny if the mech actually tipped over from assymetrical jj placement

Edited by 3xnihilo, 19 October 2016 - 03:11 PM.

[Nullmancer]

I prefer my SRM boats to be faster and tankier for hot flanking and solo surprise buttsecks action. BJ-2 seems to be better suited to fire support within or very near the team with ambush-like tactics.

That is not to say that you cant do it, its just scary vulnerable for solo action for me, so I downplay the SRM boat aspect and go for more classic BJ gameplay, hillhump and fire large lasers/LPL and save SRM's for anyone who gets in your face.

BJ-2(L) <- 2x LL, 4xSRM4, 2 ton ammo, max engine, max jumpjets, max armor but .40 underweight

Its ok, I use SRM's as deterrent mostly, but the option is there to run in and bomb something. I think i prefer the large lasers to LPL for this mech, which is odd for me as I put LPL on everything.


BJ-2(L) <- 2x LPL, 2 SRM4, 1 ton ammo, max engine, max JJ, BAP or another heatsink with max armor, .40 tons underweight

also ok, buut I currently like the range better on the first build. This one though potentially punches out torso's better outside of SRM range.


I'd make a LRM build but I don't like the idea of running without TAG and I also don't like the idea of having a single laser as backup either.

I'd go with LRM 10's over 5's though, dont have enough tonnage for 4x LRM10, but 3x will get you 4 tons ammo, TAG, max engine and JJ but you have to shave a bit or armor. You could drop a JJ and engine rating to 225 and free up a ton for more ammo or a med laser.

with 5's however you could have 4 tons ammo, TAG, max engine, 3 JJ, near max armor and have room for PPC/LPLin the left arm. you could then drop another JJ and fit Ferro, and with a LPL can fit in another ton of ammo and have max armor and be .40 underweight.

You could also go with 2x LRM 10's and 2x LRM 5's with 4 tons ammo, TAG, med laser, three JJ, max engine and near max armor. Could drop armor and/or engine rating or JJ or med laser for additional ammo.

and for the sake of completeness, you could do some sort of Dervish (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Dervish) build with 2x LRM 10's, three tons ammo, 2x SRM 4, one ton ammo, 2x med laser with three JJ, max engine, near max armor, no TAG though. However, if you lower the engine rating and drop a JJ you can free up a ton towards more ammo, or lower the engine only for a half ton of ammo or max JJ.

I might try something like this today, might be amusing.

Edited by Nullmancer, 19 October 2016 - 03:18 PM.

[Ruccus]

Don't really like that 4xASRM6 build. I'm not a huge fan of keeping the energy hardpoints empty, even if it's just to put in a couple small lasers. You'll start noticing every enemy UAV in the air and know you'll either have to call someone to shoot it down or waste an SRM volley in hopes of shooting it down (assuming you can get into range). I think SRM4/ASRM4 is the sweet spot for short range missiles on the Blackjack.

Right now I'm using 4 LRM5s (paired with either two medium lasers and BAP or an ERLL and TAG) which is working adequately because I largely use them in direct fire mode. I'm thinking when I get double basics I can move to something like this BJ-2(L) with 2 PPCs for distance damage and 4xSRM2s to keep away lights, but it might be too hot to run at the moment.

I think the Blackjack is a bit too squishy for a brawler build, so basic build principle should probably be to use either the energy hardpoints or missile hardpoints for distance damage (LRMs, LLs, PPCs), then use the leftovers for either aiding/increase distance damage (with the knowledge that if you're pressed up close you're dead), or close range support to have something to fire when people get close.

[Rhialto]

3xnihilo, on 19 October 2016 - 03:10 PM, said:

Lol, it would've funny if the mech actually tipped over from assymetrical jj placement

Actually I would really like that... for impair JJ numbers, one in engine would be required.

I'm not looking for 100% perfect physics, but there is place for improvements.

Just like I would like something to happen when a 169 Km/h Locust enter water. This would mean an Atlas could go open in water and a Locust would have much more trouble to backstab him so this open up newways of fighting over different aspect of terrain.

[Rhialto]

Nullmancer, on 19 October 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

I'd go with LRM 10's over 5's though

Like I wrote in another thread, not enough tube for a single volley so they fire 6 then 4 when I tested it. Dunno why Smurfy show 20x2.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

p.s. OP, strip down your arm armor and front load your torso armor and you will be right as rain.

Nullmancer, on 19 October 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

BJ-2(L) <- 2x LL, 4xSRM4, 2 ton ammo, max engine, max jumpjets, max armor but .40 underweight


BJ-2(L) <- 2x LPL, 2 SRM4, 1 ton ammo, max engine, max JJ, BAP or another heatsink with max armor, .40 tons underweight

sorry, but those are both pretty lousy. Why even bother with the SRMS if you have barely enough ammo to use them?

[Nullmancer]

wonder how bad it would be, does the split salvo affect the cooldown of the launcher as well?

Boogie138, on 19 October 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

p.s. OP, strip down your arm armor and front load your torso armor and you will be right as rain.

sorry, but those are both pretty lousy. Why even bother with the SRMS if you have barely enough ammo to use them?

I thought i had explained in the post, I don't think the BJ-2 makes for a good SRM boat-er, so I choose to play it like a classic BJ, long range with some up close damage potential.

Edited by Nullmancer, 19 October 2016 - 03:33 PM.

[Ruccus]

Rhialto, on 19 October 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

Like I wrote in another thread, not enough tube for a single volley so they fire 6 then 4 when I tested it. Dunno why Smurfy show 20x2.

I'm not sure if it's a bug or 'as intended', but on the BJ-2 LRM5s, LRM15s, and LRM20s will fire in one volley. LRM10s fire in two volleys.

Edited by Ruccus, 19 October 2016 - 03:39 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Ruccus, on 19 October 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

I'm not sure if it's a bug or 'as intended', but on the BJ-2 LRM5s, LRM15s, and LRM20s will fire in one volley. LRM10s fire in two volleys.

that is odd. Not horribly worried about it though.

[3xnihilo]

Boogie138, on 19 October 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

p.s. OP, strip down your arm armor and front load your torso armor and you will be right as rain.



sorry, but those are both pretty lousy. Why even bother with the SRMS if you have barely enough ammo to use them?

Yeah, I had it set up with lasers in the arms for the other builds and didn't think to strip the arms for that build when i put it together.


Thanks for the suggestions everybody. It is always interesting to see everyone's take on a new mech.

[xengk]

Been tweaking the BJ-2(L) again, and end up with this.
2x LL, 2x SRM4(2t), 2x LRM5(1.5t). XL200, 3x JJ, 11 DHS.

[Aleski]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...33d4d67a4d9025a

Only the Mad tagger is viable !!!!

(In reality, i run this : http://mwo.smurfy-ne...de42e663327032c)

[Voq]

Nullmancer, on 19 October 2016 - 03:30 PM, said:

wonder how bad it would be, does the split salvo affect the cooldown of the launcher as well? I thought i had explained in the post, I don't think the BJ-2 makes for a good SRM boat-er, so I choose to play it like a classic BJ, long range with some up close damage potential.

I'm with you Nullmancer. I immediately thought "No way this BJ is going to be good for brawling/SRM boating". I look at the ASRM6 build and think of my Griffins (one of which is faster, has better shield arms, AND ECM). BJs have always been solid support energy skirmishers.
It'd be nice if it had been better quirked for it, but the LL build you have makes sense to me. It functions like my Arrow (3LL 6MG), keep with the group providing energy support, and then close in for the mop up as the groups collide.

Edit: The only issue for me with the build is the heat management. You've actually tried it, but I'm guessing you can only use one set of weapons at a time? Is the 9+1 heat sinks enough for 2LL even? Must be. But you certainly couldn't use both lasers and missiles at the same time, right?

Edited by Voq, 20 October 2016 - 04:56 AM.

[Spheroid]

I would use the CT for something, anything really. Maybe your third jump jet and ton of ammo. Losing a leg is very common with mediums. Having a jet in the torso gives you more jump while crippled.

Also doubling the ammo in one leg is not smart even if the chance of explosion is low. I just started leveling my Blackjack so I will modify this opinion if in game experience proves otherwise.

[Mike Oakenwall - the khadoran]

I have been running srm 4 and 2 med lasers.

I have to admit, i have had terrible performance in my blackjack, Im going to try lrm and long range poke instead and leave the brawling to my griffons and shadow hawks where it belongs..

Edited by Mike Oakenwall - the khadoran, 20 October 2016 - 07:59 AM.

[BodakOfSseth]

I'm also struggling to figure out what to do with this BJ-2.
I like the high mount ERLgLas, but the tier 1 pros think it's ridiculous to pair it with SRMs.
I like the SRM boat (4x ASRM6) but with no ECM and the engine size issues, it leaves it too slow and to really pick its engagements well.
Loading more powerful lasers leaves it too slow or with not enough ammo for the SRMs.

I hate leaving the energy points open, and I haven't really been using it to jump, so I guess I could go with something like this:
4x ASRM6, 2x SLas, 235XL
The speed is fairly attractive, and 57 point alpha coming out of it seems pretty good. but the XL engine makes me extremely nervous. To my eye, it's pretty much dead as soon as the side torsos are opened up. which will be pretty quick considering how little armor is there and how big of a target it is.