338 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Deathlike, on 26 October 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

/triggered

Do you like understand how the game is played?

Do you think it's just random that Kodiaks are used whenever possible at the highest level of play?

Yes but the highest level of play doesn't amount to sweet F all to the greater player demographics. What a few hundred do vs tens of thousands is not how PGI balances mechs out.

[Deathlike]

Dee Eight, on 26 October 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Yes but the highest level of play doesn't amount to sweet F all to the greater player demographics. What a few hundred do vs tens of thousands is not how PGI balances mechs out.

You do realize the the most popular and powerful mechs get used on lower tiers across the board more often than anything else?

It doesn't make you a better player, but the trickle down effect is real and if you suck in it, it's not the comp player's fault.

[El Bandito]

Dee Eight, on 26 October 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

Yes but the highest level of play doesn't amount to sweet F all to the greater player demographics. What a few hundred do vs tens of thousands is not how PGI balances mechs out.

Then PGI should start balancing from the top. Other big F2P games do that already, such as League. When balancing champs/heroes/mechs, devs should always balance them based on their maximum potential.

Dee Eight, on 26 October 2016 - 07:16 AM, said:

Must be time to nerf the ARC-5W also then... you have a thread praising the gifting of one.... and I get games like this in them...the second game I only killed a MAL, BNC, ZEU and WHR and assisted on a CRB and KCG. Totally not punching signifcantly over my weight at all. One little 70 ton mech responsible for the killing of 485 tons of enemy mechs.

ARCHER ARC-5W 150 80 68 1.18 114 101 1.13 50,148 168,672 17:06:00

While I applaud your score in those two screenshots, your 1.18 WLR, and 1.13 KDR in the ARC-5W doesn't really scream OP, to me. And your average damage per game only translates to 334 damage. That's pretty average.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 October 2016 - 09:50 AM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 26 October 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

While I applaud your score in those two screenshots, your 1.18 WLR, and 1.13 KDR doesn't really scream OP, to me. And your average damage per game only translates to 334 damage. That's pretty average.

In the word of one man... "mediocre".

-Russ Bullock in some town hall in reference to cheating

[Scout Derek]

Yosharian, on 26 October 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

CASE doesn't stop ammo explosions, it only stops ammo explosion damage from transferring to adjacent locations.

If I'd suffered ammo explosions in both STs I could have died.

True. my bad. didnt know what i was thinking earlier this morning. gotta lay off of multitasking.

Lets be honest though, 4 tons of free CASE is pretty good, and makes it that much better to use.

[Scout Derek]

El Bandito, on 26 October 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

Then PGI should start balancing from the top. Other big F2P games do that already, such as League. When balancing champs/heroes/mechs, devs should always balance them based on their maximum potential.

If I were to debuff the Kodiak, I wouldn't go after the mechs structure quirks, but I'd go after velocity.

add a -15% Ballistic Velocity, and that gives more people time to avoid a GR charge and make dakka builds a little more face time. this also means both player groups, if having trouble adjusting to slower moving AC rounds and GR rounds, will have to move a little closer in order to compensate for the weapon velocity nerf.

as an example, let's say (not realistically in-game), that a UAC/5 has a velocity of 600M per second. applying the -15% ballistic velocity, it gets toned down to 510M per second. that's about 100M slower, and makes lining up shots harder and allows people to spread or avoid damage easier as the Clan UAC is in multiple shots for full damage as to IS, which is one and full damage.

[Dee Eight]

Deathlike, on 26 October 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

You do realize the the most popular and powerful mechs get used on lower tiers across the board more often than anything else?

Yep, but not in the numbers you seem to think. KDK-3s represent a pitifully low percentage of actual assaults played. I see a lot more lower tierage players than you likely do, especially given that I play about forty matches a day. Those two ARC-5W end results I posted above totalled ZERO KDK-3s. Out of 14 assault mechs, there were two KDK-4s, one KDK-1, and 1 KDK-SB. I have this game from when I found the name for my Spirit Bear (Boeing) during the kodiak leaderboard event....note the total lack of the 3 variant.



I have another 15 screen caps from my mech polling I did last month to see what was more common, dragons or riflemen, plus three from proving the MM does mix T1s with T4s, and a dozen others from night gyr high scores, huntsman high scores, dragon high scores, and some of matches I reported to moderation. 136 assault mechs total, of which 25 were kodiaks and 9 of those were KDK-3s. 9/136 is 6.6% of the assault mechs. I nearly saw as many victors as I did KDK-3s in all those games. Even having gone to C-bills they're still a minority among assault mech players.

Edited by Dee Eight, 26 October 2016 - 10:24 AM.

[Lightfoot]

I beat KDK-3's with heavies and other assaults. They win a short range brawl usually and lose a 500 meter plus battle. So they don't always win and hey, I do it with a joystick. I don't own any Kodiaks though, maybe I would crush my enemies and see them run before me, while I listened to the lamentation of their women?

[Wrathful Scythe]

I think I know now why some people don't think the Kodiak-3 is OP. I see so many players that just suck with that thing. Downright potatoe players that can't break 300 damage with that thing. I mean, how? Yes, you can have a bad match where you get a headshot or walk around the wrong corner but come on. So many matches were the KDK-3s were worth crap. Maybe I should take notes of that.

I'm not even scared of those things anymore, because the players can't hit me for sh*t anyway. Seems like I need to dust that thing off and put it to good use so PGI can get some real data on that thing.

[Deathlike]

Dee Eight, on 26 October 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

Yep, but not in the numbers you seem to think. KDK-3s represent a pitifully low percentage of actual assaults played. I see a lot more lower tierage players than you likely do, especially given that I play about forty matches a day. Those two ARC-5W end results I posted above totalled ZERO KDK-3s. Out of 14 assault mechs, there were two KDK-4s, one KDK-1, and 1 KDK-SB. I have this game from when I found the name for my Spirit Bear (Boeing) during the kodiak leaderboard event....note the total lack of the 3 variant.

At lower tiers, less "metamechs" appear. It's natural that way. It's they say way how LRMs disappear the higher the tier you are. It's not that they are never used... they are simply used less.

Just because you aren't seeing it doesn't mean they aren't being populated.

Quote

I have another 15 screen caps from my mech polling I did last month to see what was more common, dragons or riflemen, plus three from proving the MM does mix T1s with T4s, and a dozen others from night gyr high scores, huntsman high scores, dragon high scores, and some of matches I reported to moderation. 136 assault mechs total, of which 25 were kodiaks and 9 of those were KDK-3s. 9/136 is 6.6% of the assault mechs. I nearly saw as many victors as I did KDK-3s in all those games. Even having gone to C-bills they're still a minority among assault mech players.

I have plenty of matches where I do well in an ACH, because I know my competition were worse than I am. It doesn't mean I'm good NOR that ACHs are OP. Right now as I'm dropping, I'm getting insta-drops with people that have garbage builds and do zero damage. Does that mean their mech was bad, or was that because they played poorly?

I mean, if we go by your logic, that "LRMs are OP" thread must be legit right? I mean, people can't handle lrms right? Everyone in the comp meta are all over LRMs yes?

Sometimes your experience honestly doesn't match what others see, which is fine. However, saying "it's not prevalent" when you're not playing higher level games tells you how much you don't know about the game.

Edited by Deathlike, 26 October 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[BCAW]

Lightfoot, on 26 October 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

I beat KDK-3's with heavies and other assaults. They win a short range brawl usually and lose a 500 meter plus battle. So they don't always win and hey, I do it with a joystick. I don't own any Kodiaks though, maybe I would crush my enemies and see them run before me, while I listened to the lamentation of their women?

Don't even get me started on the whole "don't brawl it" thing. The fact that this mech's performance in a brawl is as good as most other dedicated brawler builds (SRMs, small/med pulses etc.), while able to out-trade most things at 500 meters, is quite absurd. Not many other mechs have such a large effective range bracket. And not to mention being able to run around at 69kph, the speed of some of the slower heavies.

Firepower on its own isn't a problem. Heck, the brawler build I ran for the longest time on my TBR-A (4xASRM6, 6xSPL) technically has more firepower than a KDK-3 (84 on my TBR and 60 for dakkabears), and yes, I've been able to out-brawl bears with that build, with lots of effort and every trick in the book, including twisting with jumpjets. But the dakkabear is still a vastly superior mech build due to how well it can PROJECT its firepower, due to a combination of effective range, speed, high mounts and heat efficiency. That's why the KDK-3 is one of the best mech right now. Its got great firepower, and is able PROJECT that firepower effectively, on top of being tanky. Yes I said tanky, the hitboxes are really not bad. If you are any good at torso twisting you can survive for a long time.

Edited by BCAW, 26 October 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Scout Derek, on 26 October 2016 - 10:10 AM, said:

If I were to debuff the Kodiak, I wouldn't go after the mechs structure quirks, but I'd go after velocity.

add a -15% Ballistic Velocity, and that gives more people time to avoid a GR charge and make dakka builds a little more face time. this also means both player groups, if having trouble adjusting to slower moving AC rounds and GR rounds, will have to move a little closer in order to compensate for the weapon velocity nerf.

as an example, let's say (not realistically in-game), that a UAC/5 has a velocity of 600M per second. applying the -15% ballistic velocity, it gets toned down to 510M per second. that's about 100M slower, and makes lining up shots harder and allows people to spread or avoid damage easier as the Clan UAC is in multiple shots for full damage as to IS, which is one and full damage.

If I were to nerf the Kodiak 3, I would, to avoid negative quirks, lower torso arc to 60 sideways and by 5 or 10 degrees up and down , to make those ST mounts able to shoot only targets on equal or very similar elevation than the KDK3 itself. The latter would weaken KDK in close ranges and on uneven terrain. Want to use those awesome torso mounts? Position yourself properly first (or use arm hardpoints, khe khe khe).

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 26 October 2016 - 10:55 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 26 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

If I were to nerf the Kodiak 3, I would, to avoid negative quirks, lower torso arc to 60 sideways and by 5 or 10 degrees up and down , to make those ST mounts able to shoot only targets on equal or very similar elevation than the KDK3 itself. The latter would weaken KDK in close ranges and on uneven terrain. Want to use those awesome torso mounts? Position yourself properly first (or use arm hardpoints, khe khe khe).

this is also another way to do it. Andi mentioned giving the Kodiak Dire Wolf speed turns.

And arm mounts.... hah. PPC gauss meta ain't for me usually, I like to have jump jets. I use a hbk IIC (O) with a GR and PPC. works great in FP defense.

[BCAW]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 26 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

If I were to nerf the Kodiak 3, I would, to avoid negative quirks, lower torso arc to 60 sideways and by 5 or 10 degrees up and down , to make those ST mounts able to shoot only targets on equal or very similar elevation than the KDK3 itself. The latter would weaken KDK in close ranges and on uneven terrain. Want to use those awesome torso mounts? Position yourself properly first (or use arm hardpoints, khe khe khe).

I second this notion. Lore-wise the 3 variant of the Kodiak was intended as an anti-air unit. You don't need much gun depression as an anti-air unit. And this would certainly impeded its capability at closer ranges, which would be a great improvement in terms of balancing. It is already the king of mid-range combat.

[Scout Derek]

BCAW, on 26 October 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

I second this notion. Lore-wise the 3 variant of the Kodiak was intended as an anti-air unit. You don't need much gun depression as an anti-air unit. And this would certainly impeded its capability at closer ranges, which would be a great improvement in terms of balancing. It is already the king of mid-range combat.

and I'm hoping this is clear to anyone else reading, we are considering only the 3 should have this difference, not any other variant within the Kodiak's chassis.

[Jon Gotham]

Hmm more anti clan rhetoric....nothing new then...

[BCAW]

Jon Gotham, on 26 October 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

Hmm more anti clan rhetoric....nothing new then...

I play mostly Clan mechs, and I think the KDK-3 SPECIFICALLY needs to be toned down. Fk me, right?

And thank you for your thoughtful and constructive response to the topic at hand.

[Clownwarlord]

Deathlike, on 26 October 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

In the word of one man... "mediocre".

-Russ Bullock in some town hall in reference to cheating

I believe you are looking for this meme.

Although I prefer this meme using mad max movie more ...

Edited by Clownwarlord, 26 October 2016 - 01:48 PM.

[Huron Fal]

Widowmaker1981, on 25 October 2016 - 01:56 AM, said:

While i absolutely agree that the KDK-3 needs nerfing, id like to see people calling for it make actual suggestions as to what form that nerf should take - because i do not agree with negative quirks, at all, ever - put negative weapon quirks on it so that 2UAC10 + 2UAC5 is only as effective as 2xUAC10 + 1 x UAC5 on the Night Gyr? Congrats, you killed the Kodiak. (well, assuming the same applied to GR/PPC builds)

I think that, beyond removing the structure quirks (duh) and reducing the torso twist arc, the only thing left to do beyond that is buffing other assault mechs to compete - which wouldnt take much imo in some cases - give the Banshee and Battlemaster their quirks back, take the KDKs quirks and reduce its torso arc and it will be pretty damn close.

edit: Asking for hardpoint location changes or hardpoint removal is a complete pipe dream, its never going to happen. Be realistic.

Torso Arc, or maybe turn / accel / decel nerfs too (not necessarily all of those things, but maybe 1 or 2). After all, its not just 1 attribute (mounts, armor, speed, mobility) that makes the Kodiak OP, its the combination of all its strengths. I agree with you, lets not muddle with the hardpoints or the jam chances of the uacs but rather capitalize on reducing the Kodiak's mobility to bring it more in line with the other ballistic boats.

[Huron Fal]

Dee Eight, on 26 October 2016 - 10:21 AM, said:

Yep, but not in the numbers you seem to think. KDK-3s represent a pitifully low percentage of actual assaults played. I see a lot more lower tierage players than you likely do, especially given that I play about forty matches a day. Those two ARC-5W end results I posted above totalled ZERO KDK-3s. Out of 14 assault mechs, there were two KDK-4s, one KDK-1, and 1 KDK-SB. I have this game from when I found the name for my Spirit Bear (Boeing) during the kodiak leaderboard event....note the total lack of the 3 variant.



I have another 15 screen caps from my mech polling I did last month to see what was more common, dragons or riflemen, plus three from proving the MM does mix T1s with T4s, and a dozen others from night gyr high scores, huntsman high scores, dragon high scores, and some of matches I reported to moderation. 136 assault mechs total, of which 25 were kodiaks and 9 of those were KDK-3s. 9/136 is 6.6% of the assault mechs. I nearly saw as many victors as I did KDK-3s in all those games. Even having gone to C-bills they're still a minority among assault mech players.

Can almost guarantee that most people who are using the "lesser" variants are doing so in order to elite/master their KD3s.