338 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

Trollfeed, on 25 October 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Only thing that I have found working against KDK-3 face to face is surprise atlas. Meaning that I get to start that fight under 150m in AS7-S and get the first shot.

What about the KDK-3s that move with their team in a deathball and just shoot above their team mates? Because that's how I usually play.

Edited by Kmieciu, 25 October 2016 - 03:36 AM.

[METAL SEPARATOR]

You don't play with kdk3 face to face. Unless it's damaged and you're awesome... Strategy!

[El Bandito]

Kmieciu, on 25 October 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

What about the KDK-3s that move with their team in a deathball and just shoot above their team mates? Because that's how I usually play.

That's how I play as well. When I do not have terrain cover, I simply let a teammate get in front of me and I shoot over his shoulder.

MWn00b, on 25 October 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

You don't play with kdk3 face to face. Unless it's damaged and you're awesome... Strategy!

My KDK-3 kills those who are exposed and move on to the rest, with my teammates. KDK-3 is fast enough to re-position itself, unlike the slow Whale. You may be able to hide and poke, but same cannot be said of your teammates, especially Assaults.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 October 2016 - 03:46 AM.

[Trollfeed]

Kmieciu, on 25 October 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

What about the KDK-3s that move with their team in a deathball and just shoot above their team mates? Because that's how I usually play.

Die gloriously doing 80 points of damage? That's good example why KDK-3 is so strong, due to its hardpoint locations it can always shoot its weapons when it sees enemies and its ludicrous dps kills anything in the open in seconds. It's interesting to watch in HPG manifold when team realises that they have 3 dakkabears and they just start to push.

Seen a lots of posts how KDK-3 isn't strong because it loses solo against some cheeky crotchumper. It just means that you don't know how to play this game. KDK-3 is a really big force multiplier when you stay with your team and push instead spraying uacs at poking mechs 700m away.

[Albino Boo]

Trollfeed, on 25 October 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

If you're not aware KDK-3 is the META at the moment. I'm actually more scared of dual gauss + dual erppc KDK-3 than the dakkabear because you can usually dodge dakka at range. And all those non "meta" assaults just melt in face of kodiak. Only thing that I have found working against KDK-3 face to face is surprise atlas. Meaning that I get to start that fight under 150m in AS7-S and get the first shot.

TheArisen, on 25 October 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

Funny how you mention gauss & erppcs, did you know the premiere gauss & erppc carrier is the Kodiak? With the same qualities that make it a great dakka boat it can dominate the long range game.

Hint: stop standing still and poking and share your armor and move. The curse of the T1 meta is the sloppy thinking of turret based warfare. The KDK can be beaten by out manoeuvring it in heavies/ mediums and stop poking even when you get flanked have superior numbers in that direction. I have lost count of the number of matches lost where 10 mechs poke at 4 instead of pushing the isolated mechs.

[Widowmaker1981]

Albino Boo, on 25 October 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

Hint: stop standing still and poking and share your armor and move. The curse of the T1 meta is the sloppy thinking of turret based warfare. The KDK can be beaten by out manoeuvring it in heavies/ mediums and stop poking even when you get flanked have superior numbers in that direction. I have lost count of the number of matches lost where 10 mechs poke at 4 instead of pushing the isolated mechs.

Again, no one is saying that it cannot be beaten. Its that it is far better than the alternative choices. All tactics to defeat a KDK will work better against any other assault.

[STEF_]

not enough popcorn!!!

I knew it!!

The forum is so highly populated by potatoes that are scared by the fact that maybe pgi would (and should) nerf thier KDK-3!!!!
The only mech they can do something good and not feeling thierself what they are (potatoes)!!!!!!


(another ton of popcorn for me).

Still not admitting the evidences: KDK-3 easy mode so much better than ANY other assault.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 25 October 2016 - 04:58 AM.

[roboPrancer]

The kdk3 needs a hardpoint rework. Compare its ballistic mounts with any other hundred tonner and it's just ridiculous

[Bombast]

El Bandito, on 24 October 2016 - 08:35 PM, said:

I blanked out those two's names cause I didn't want them to feel inadequate for me calling them out--especially that KDK-3 pilot who survived until the end of the game with mere 326 damage done.

Fair enough.

[Wil McCullough]

MWn00b, on 25 October 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

I don't see a problem with that. GET BETTER and USE TACTICS. Something unheard of, I guess.

what are you talking about? you take down kdk 3s the same way you take down any other assaults. you make it sound as if shooting fat assaults in the back or taking out side torsos that mount big weapons are things no one ever thought of trying.

the kdk 3 isn't an outlier because of its ppfld (which some mechs can match), tankiness (which other mechs can also match), or speed (which most mechs can beat). it's a combination of all 3 that punishes opponents' missteps way harder than it should. when you screw up against other assaults once, you lose armor. a limb, maybe. you screw up against a kdk 3 once, you lose your mech. and due to how well the kdk chassis moves and spreads damage compared to assaults like the dire whale, they take way more effort to bring down, which leads to you having a higher chance of screwing up.

its only "weakness" is that its weapons are torso mounted, which gives fast mechs like locusts an advantage (if it can get behind the kdk 3 in the first place without getting shot to pieces). this "weakness" is however easily mitigated by simply sticking with teammates. something that the kdk can do easily because of its high speed for an assault.

[Single Mom]

El Bandito, on 24 October 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

Been playing the KDK-3 for a week now. There are no other explanations for stats like this.




Surely it cannot be the mech. There are plenty of forumers telling me Kodiak-3 is not OP. They speak of how easy it is to focus down the mech and how cumbersome the chassis is. I mean, there are two guys below me who did less than 400 damage in KDK-3, thus proves the mech is not OP, right?




Surely it cannot be my skills. There are plenty of forumers telling me one guy cannot make a difference in 12 v 12. Plus my eye sight is bad, and I tend to spread my shells all around like a zinc addicted porn actor. I mean ****, how else I can have an average of 812 damage per game?

Only explanation left is that of luck. Since I play on Solo-q only with KDK-3, I must be extremely lucky to get good teammates 80% of the time! Guess my new habit of praying every morning for competent teammates worked, and MM God is looking out for me, albeit only when I am playing the Kodiak-3.



But seriously, nerf KDK-3. It is an easy-mode one mouse button using OP engine of destruction. And the dakka version is not even its final form.

Did you make sure they launched with ammo? It could be that they did what they could with ramming and did that much damage.

[Angel of Annihilation]

El Bandito, on 24 October 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

Been playing the KDK-3 for a week now. There are no other explanations for stats like this.




Surely it cannot be the mech. There are plenty of forumers telling me Kodiak-3 is not OP. They speak of how easy it is to focus down the mech and how cumbersome the chassis is. I mean, there are two guys below me who did less than 400 damage in KDK-3, thus proves the mech is not OP, right?




Surely it cannot be my skills. There are plenty of forumers telling me one guy cannot make a difference in 12 v 12. Plus my eye sight is bad, and I tend to spread my shells all around like a zinc addicted porn actor. I mean ****, how else I can have an average of 812 damage per game?

Only explanation left is that of luck. Since I play on Solo-q only with KDK-3, I must be extremely lucky to get good teammates 80% of the time! Guess my new habit of praying every morning for competent teammates worked, and MM God is looking out for me, albeit only when I am playing the Kodiak-3.



But seriously, nerf KDK-3. It is an easy-mode one mouse button using OP engine of destruction. And the dakka version is not even its final form.

What about other mechs you own? Is there NOT ONE other mech that has similar stats??

I know for me, I have at least 6 maybe even 10 mechs, of various classes that are outputting at least the same stats that my KDK-3 and Kodiaks in general are outputting.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 25 October 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

What about other mechs you own? Is there NOT ONE other mech that has similar stats??

I know for me, I have at least 6 maybe even 10 mechs, of various classes that are outputting at least the same stats that my KDK-3 and Kodiaks in general are outputting.

Not one. All my best Assaults and Heavies (three of them shown below) have about 2:1 WLR and KDR. KDK3 doubles that, and has over 200 more damage done per game.




Which is crazy since over 58% WLR in solo-q is generally considered very good. My KDK-3 right now has 80% WLR in solo-q.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 October 2016 - 05:50 AM.

[Yosharian]

El Bandito, on 25 October 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

Not one. All my best Assaults and Heavies (three of them shown below) have about 2:1 WLR and KDR. KDK3 doubles that, and has over 200 more damage done per game.




Which is crazy since over 58% WLR in solo-q is generally considered very good. My KDK-3 right now has 80% WLR in solo-q.

What build are you running? UAC5/UAC10 mix?

Edited by Yosharian, 25 October 2016 - 05:52 AM.

[El Bandito]

Yosharian, on 25 October 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

What build are you running? UAC5/UAC10 mix?

Yep, the "repeatedly tap left mouse button" build. Here is my GOD-liath.

[Mawai]

UnofficialOperator, on 24 October 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

Stock Trial Highlander is OP in lower tiers. Even 2x OP KDK 3s can't beat stock mechs. Ban ban ban. And yes I agree, without data, we can only assume a lot of things from our own experiences. That is why I think we should leave it up to PGI with the data that they have, to decide.

PS: UACs tend to damage inflate.

Hey ...

The only solid data we have are from the various tournaments ...

Weight of the World
https://mwomercs.com...?t=201608weight

Assaults:
9 out of top 10 - scores were done mostly in Kodiaks
16 out of top 20 - scores were done mostly in Kodiaks
42 out of top 75 - scores were done mostly in Kodiaks

Epic Assault Event
https://mwomercs.com...t=201608assault

Kodiak average score over 75 pilots - 3689
This is 15% higher than the next best mech - Dire Wolf
This is 64% higher than the worst assault - Victor

This is by pilots all attempting to get the most from their assault mechs under comparable conditions for all assaults.

Based on the DATA available to us from tournaments run by PGI ... the Kodiak is CLEARLY better than any other assault mech by anywhere from 15% to 65% ... this is like installing a minimum 15% performance quirk on the mech over any other assault.

The bottom line is that based on DATA - the Kodiak is clearly more powerful than ANY OTHER ASSAULT.

Whether it is OP ... that is something else ... is it TOO MUCH more powerful? Clearly there are a lot of underperforming assaults.

Also ... should tonnage matter? The matchmaker treats ALL assaults equally ... however, a 100 ton assault is usually more effective than an 80 ton assault.

Anyway ... here are the average for all assaults over the top 75 players in the Epic Assault challenge:


100 "Kodiak" 3,689
100 "Dire Wolf" 3,229
90 "Mauler" 3,093
85 "Battlemaster" 3,078
80 "Awesome" 2,951
100 "King Crab" 2,928
85 "Warhawk" 2,906
95 "Banshee" 2,810
100 "Atlas" 2,779
85 "Stalker" 2,774
90 "Highlander IIC" 2,760
95 "Executioner" 2,705
80 "Gargoyle" 2,624
80 "Zeus" 2,489
90 "Highlander" 2,403
80 "Victor" 2,252

What is noticeable from these numbers?
1) 10 out of 16 assaults are clustered in a reasonably tight band from 2700 to 3000 giving no more than a 10% variation.
2) Kodiak is 14% ahead of the Dire which is almost 5% ahead of the next best assault. The Kodiak is 20% higher than the bulk of the assault mechs.
3) Zeus, Highlander and Victor are clear under performers and could use some sort of buff.

Kodiak needs a nerf on the order of 15% to at least bring it in line with the Dire whale.
Lowest performers need some sort of buff if PGI wants them to be useful ... however, unlike OP mechs where one or more significantly out perform .. it isn't expected that all mechs perform equally so maybe some under achievers are Ok.

Edited by Mawai, 25 October 2016 - 06:31 AM.

[TLBFestus]

I dont need anyone seeing my crap scores in a Kodiak and ridiculing me. I do fine ridiculing myself.

[Mcgral18]

MWn00b, on 25 October 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

I don't see a problem with that. GET BETTER and USE TACTICS. Something unheard of, I guess.

What if I Git Gud, use Tactics, AND use a Kodiak?
Oh Snap! Everything's dead

Viktor Drake, on 25 October 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

What about other mechs you own? Is there NOT ONE other mech that has similar stats??

I know for me, I have at least 6 maybe even 10 mechs, of various classes that are outputting at least the same stats that my KDK-3 and Kodiaks in general are outputting.

It has exceeded the WubShee in every way...aside from laservomit


There are some good performers, but nothing close.




Why have I used my Cute Fox more than my Jenner 2CA?
I haven't even touched it in months.

[Deathlike]

I like how people defending the KDK-3 is like seeing our balance overlord defend anything he does....

Balance by Tier 5.

This is why garbage mechs stay garbage, and really good mechs stay the meta longer than it should.

If you haven't seen enough KDK-3s in a semi-organized way kicking your arse, then obviously the meta is totally pro-Mist Lynx because it's good "for reasons".

People are way too in denial when they choose to ignore comp level play data in the MWOWC (or MRBC for that matter). Let's just pretend the Kodiak-3 is the most sub-par mech EVER. Yea, that'll do it.

This is the ultimate instance where people don't understand (let alone maximize) the tools they are given.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 October 2016 - 10:13 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

KDK-3 is signature PGI balance

move along