45 replies to this topic

[TheCerpent]

I keep seeing people posting how they want to see the Panther released. Even as the Spider was announced, several expressed dismay that the Panther wasn't the Mech that was announced. My question is simply: why?

Looking at the specs of the Panther, I can tell that it is more heavily armored than most light mechs at 6.5 tons of armor. And, I must admit, having a PPC on a light Mech is rather nifty.

However, it moves at exactly the same speed as a Catapult (4/6/4). This makes it a slow moving target, that any heavier mech would be able to take down without even trying that hard. Heck, a Dragon would be able to outrun this thing, and could probably knock it out of the fight before it even closed the distance.

If you want a PPC and a SRM 4, you can get that pretty easily from a Jenner. Drop the engine down by one level, swap to double heat sinks, add endo steel, and you can swap three Medium Lasers for a PPC, plus pop in another jump jet. This leaves you with still more firepower than the Panther, and 6/9/6 mobility. Only 4 tons of armor, but you can choose to go ferro-fibrous to squeeze in about 7 more points, or drop the extra jump jet for another half ton of armor on top of that. And you don't even need an XL engine.

As for other long-range light mechs, both the Firefly and the Thorn are quicker options. Only LRM-5s for long range, but it gives some ability to harry from a distance while still being faster than your average Heavy mech. Firefly has the same armor, but more speed, and the same jump distance, without modification. Thorn admittedly doesn't have JJ, and certainly has less firepower, but it still has a faster ground speed than the Panther.

It just baffles me that someone would want a slow Light Mech.

(And yes, I know that, with modification, you can give the Panther 6/9/4 speed without lowering its armor or adding an XL engine. But how does that make it a significantly different alternative to the Jenner?)

[Brenden]

What do you mean by 4/6/4? I've never played the Table Top, sadly, I don't kno where to get it. Also, 6/9/4 and all those other Number/number/number. What do they mean?

And I sort of agree, I like the Panthar because it has Jump Jets, it has a PPC and some really decent armor for a Light mech. Plus it has a nice design. What I don't like about it is what you stated: Speed. Not only that, but lack of intermediate ranges: What if you run out of SRM ammo and the guy is too close for you to fire your PPC? That might be remedied by turning the SRM-4 to a 2 and maybe adding a few small or medium lasers.

[Buck Rogers]

Michael Cerpent, on 18 July 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

It just baffles me that someone would want a slow Light Mech.

Anything with jump jets can achieve disengagement from an enemy without them if used properly. A Panther, properly used, would set itself up as a PPC sniper in an area of the map where its jump jets could get it out of trouble if need be. If terrain and cover allow it, extra armor + jump jets can often make up for slow speed.

Same as with... The UrbanMech . Dun Dun Dunnn.

[Bodha]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 06:55 PM, said:

What do you mean by 4/6/4? I've never played the Table Top, sadly, I don't kno where to get it. Also, 6/9/4 and all those other Number/number/number. What do they mean?

And I sort of agree, I like the Panthar because it has Jump Jets, it has a PPC and some really decent armor for a Light mech. Plus it has a nice design. What I don't like about it is what you stated: Speed. Not only that, but lack of intermediate ranges: What if you run out of SRM ammo and the guy is too close for you to fire your PPC? That might be remedied by turning the SRM-4 to a 2 and maybe adding a few small or medium lasers.

Walk/Run/Jump in number of movement points.

As for the OPs observation the Panther is probably not all that valuable unless there are economic considerations and drop limits. If they ever get around to making a campaign system where those things matter then the Panther will have substantial value, if not then its just another mech/hardpoint/weight combination.

[Brenden]

Bodha, on 18 July 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

Walk/Run/Jump in number of movement points.

As for the OPs observation the Panther is probably not all that valuable unless there are economic considerations and drop limits. If they ever get around to making a campaign system where those things matter then the Panther will have substantial value, if not then its just another mech/hardpoint/weight combination.

Ah, thank you. And what do those points mean?
I doubt they will make a campaign, it just seems like they are going to be PvP only or so. As for what the other guy said, Buck Rogers of the 25th century, the Panthar pilot should be able to jump up into a nice little niche and then use it to snipe from.

[grimzod]

Michael Cerpent, on 18 July 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

I keep seeing people posting how they want to see the Panther released. Even as the Spider was announced, several expressed dismay that the Panther wasn't the Mech that was announced. My question is simply: why?

Looking at the specs of the Panther, I can tell that it is more heavily armored than most light mechs at 6.5 tons of armor. And, I must admit, having a PPC on a light Mech is rather nifty.

However, it moves at exactly the same speed as a Catapult (4/6/4). This makes it a slow moving target, that any heavier mech would be able to take down without even trying that hard. Heck, a Dragon would be able to outrun this thing, and could probably knock it out of the fight before it even closed the distance.

If you want a PPC and a SRM 4, you can get that pretty easily from a Jenner. Drop the engine down by one level, swap to double heat sinks, add endo steel, and you can swap three Medium Lasers for a PPC, plus pop in another jump jet. This leaves you with still more firepower than the Panther, and 6/9/6 mobility. Only 4 tons of armor, but you can choose to go ferro-fibrous to squeeze in about 7 more points, or drop the extra jump jet for another half ton of armor on top of that. And you don't even need an XL engine.

As for other long-range light mechs, both the Firefly and the Thorn are quicker options. Only LRM-5s for long range, but it gives some ability to harry from a distance while still being faster than your average Heavy mech. Firefly has the same armor, but more speed, and the same jump distance, without modification. Thorn admittedly doesn't have JJ, and certainly has less firepower, but it still has a faster ground speed than the Panther.

It just baffles me that someone would want a slow Light Mech.

(And yes, I know that, with modification, you can give the Panther 6/9/4 speed without lowering its armor or adding an XL engine. But how does that make it a significantly different alternative to the Jenner?)

It is an Iconic Kurita mech. Just like the Dragon.

[Orlockian]

I'd take it because of the different design of the mech chassis. You may be able to make a Jenner that is functionally a "Panther" but it's still not a "Panther" some of the atmosphere of the game setting is lost when every house has the exact same mechs in the exact same quantities. Then it's just the logo on the side of your mech that differentiates you from the next guy. Just my 2 cents.

[Pika]

I think honestly because it's a little more iconic? Imagine if the Atlas wasn't playable and what people would be asking?

In MW3, the Panther was a mainstay lightweight, the Xbox Mech Assault games has the Panther as their go-to Lightweights and in MW4:Mercs it's one of the first lights you get in the singleplayer.

I think it just has a special place in peoples hearts... just like the Atlas and Timberwolf

[Brenden]

Orlockian, on 18 July 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

I'd take it because of the different design of the mech chassis. You may be able to make a Jenner that is functionally a "Panther" but it's still not a "Panther" some of the atmosphere of the game setting is lost when every house has the exact same mechs in the exact same quantities. Then it's just the logo on the side of your mech that differentiates you from the next guy. Just my 2 cents.

Words of true wisdom. Now bend over and recieve your Arrow (VI) to the knee.

[Exilyth]

The Panther is slow but punchy, in combination with the jumpjets this leads to a design that is great at ambushing enemies, traversing in difficult terrain and abusing different elevation levels. The PPC hurts enough to keep other light mechs away and still does considerable damage against heavier foes. The Panther and the Dragon, both kuritan designs, supplement each other quite nicely.

[Brenden]

Pika, on 18 July 2012 - 07:10 PM, said:

I think honestly because it's a little more iconic? Imagine if the Atlas wasn't playable and what people would be asking?

In MW3, the Panther was a mainstay lightweight, the Xbox Mech Assault games has the Panther as their go-to Lightweights and in MW4:Mercs it's one of the first lights you get in the singleplayer.

I think it just has a special place in peoples hearts... just like the Atlas and Timberwolf

Mechassault doesn't have Panthars.

[Pika]

Holy crap, forget this WHOLE post, i'm thinking of the wrong Mech!

Whoops! Though my point still stands, it IS fairly iconic... even if it's design is INCREDIBLY dated. Could use a little Piranha love, honestly

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

Mechassault doesn't have Panthars.

You are indeed correct! I realised I was thinking of something else. (I had it in my head the 'Mech on the cover on the first Mech Assault game was a Panther. I now can't remember what that thing is!)

Edited by Pika, 18 July 2012 - 07:15 PM.

[Brenden]

It was some kind of version of the Cougar they called the "Puma", probably because they couldn't put the real Puma in the game. It has two Machine guns, a PPC and two Crossbow missile racks, better known as SRM 2s.

[Joxer]

A PPC in a Prime variant goes a long way. Any other light needs alot of modification (which can rack up the C-bills fast). Where as a Panther only needs a few tweaks here and there to get faster.

A good pilot, skilled with Jump Jets can wreak havock with that PPC.

I personally tend to strip out the SRM and add an AntiMissile system and Machine guns. Stack 4 of those with a ton or two or ammo, and you can shred infantry and light mechs. They work great for frying cockpits on mediums and heavies while the PPC is recycling.

[tyrone dunkirk]

Can you imagine how often the Panther would show up on the field with it's popularity, and affordability? A team with more than one Panther acting as scout/snipers and the possibility of having K2s on your team would bring you a great firepower advantage. Imagine the other team's frustration with the ******** jump jetting away from them whilst taking shots with their PPCs. On it's own it may be not so useful; but with support, it could be a game maker. A LOT of PPC shots flying all over the place I'd imagine.

Not to mention FD's take on it would be SOOOO badass
He really needs to make one

Edited by tyrone dunkirk, 18 July 2012 - 07:32 PM.

[Pika]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

It was some kind of version of the Cougar they called the "Puma", probably because they couldn't put the real Puma in the game. It has two Machine guns, a PPC and two Crossbow missile racks, better known as SRM 2s.

Well it's also a big cat so I hope you can understand my embarrassing confusion >.>

[Arson]

1. It's an iconic design. 2. All of the other lights presented are fast flankers or scouts and it would bring something else to the table as a light weight brawler. 3. I have a soft spot for the Panther because in one of my first TT games my Panther managed to get an enemy Jagermech away from his support (well, more accurately my other mechs managed to keep the Jagermech's lance mates occupied) and then proceeded to completely wreck a mech 30 tons heavier than it in a one on one fight (dice rolls of course played a part--namely the ammo explosion when I punched through his armor. I laugh at you Jagermech and your paper thin armor). I'll always love the little mech for that.

But mostly I just thought it would present a different style of play right out of the box for potential light pilots and it's certainly a viable design. It has some punch and the jump jets make it decently mobile despite it's low speed.

[Shoklar]

Panthers are good at urban combat and jump sniping from behind hills. It's about the only light mech I'd consider piloting.

It also looks better than the U.S.S. Jennerprise. And you can't make a joke about a Panther that involves the phone number 867-5309...Jenny!

Edited by Shoklar, 18 July 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[TheCerpent]

Lot's of "It's Iconic."

And honestly, I get that. Unfortunately, I didn't really have access to the earlier Mechwarrior franchise games. I got to play Crescent Hawk's Inception and Revenge when I was younger, but my father bogarted the computer when it game to the early Mechwarrior games. Not having any real money to speak of on my own until the past several years meant that I didn't really pick up any of the later ones.

So, I think that if I had played those games, I might get it more. But at least I can see where you're coming from on it. Thanks!

[Bodha]

Brenden, on 18 July 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Ah, thank you. And what do those points mean?
I doubt they will make a campaign, it just seems like they are going to be PvP only or so. As for what the other guy said, Buck Rogers of the 25th century, the Panthar pilot should be able to jump up into a nice little niche and then use it to snipe from.

There just points you can spend to move. Some terrain costs more to move. Basically you choose to walk, run, jump, or remain stationary. If you run you get the running movement points AND you have a set amount of heat generated as a result (also running, and jumping affect your ability to shoot accurately more than walking or remaining stationary). You then spend those movement points to cross hexes on a map board. The more hexes you move the harder you are to hit b/c you were moving faster.