171 replies to this topic

[Black Phoebe]

Albino Boo, on 28 October 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

I have a positive win/loss ratio so my guesses are right more often than they are wrong. Running a lrm is factually less effective than than running a non lrm boat so will always average out to a worse result.

And yet, if we both are in the same team and i pilot my LurmDog, you are the one who decreases my chances of winning, not the other way around. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with your stats, they are just a little lower than mine, for whatever reason.

The problem with this school of thinking is, that it kills diversity. Bringing any assault but a KDK-3 will average to a worse result for almost all players, just to name one example. So, if i would always take the best, i would not be allowed to pilot my Stalkers, Warhawks or Atlai. That's a pretty bad thing for a game that lives from people who play Pokemech. As far as i'm concerned, everything is fine, as long as you can maintain a w/l ratio around 1 and my lurmboats can do this just fine, actually the worst of them is my HBK-4SP with a 1.07 ratio, which should be fine by your very own standards.

Everytime people discuss lrm they bring the worst examples like the infamous 900m-away-behind-a-building-lurmboat and everytime i ask myself why this stereotype is worse than the 1km-away-gauss-sniper or the 500m-away-ML-"brawler". Playing bad is not tied to the Mech or the weapon you use, it can happen with every combo, even in tier1 matches and with a meta Mech.

A well played and aggressive lrm boat is an asset, especially in the solo queue. While getting your own locks is an important skill for a lurmer, more locks mean more options. It is very common that the locks that are provided by your team are better than those you can get yourself (because of the "focus fire" it creates, just to name one reason). If you want to win, it is in your own interest to provide locks, as long as it does not put you in additional danger, like when you are brawling and you are facing the enemy anyway. And as far as "armor sharing" is concerned, with all the aggression lurms create in the opfor, a lurmboat within optimum range will share it's armor soon enough, long before all those ecm/erll/gauss/ppc snipers share theirs.

So, if someone tells you, that he brings lurms, don't call it "begging". Take it as a vital information and use it in a way that is beneficial for your team.

Edited by Black Phoebe, 28 October 2016 - 06:39 PM.

[Roadbuster]

I have no problem if people tell me they have LRMs or if they ask to hold locks.
I just can't stand people who don't do anything to get their own locks and just wait for their teammates to do the job.
And I hate people who bring nothing but LRMs. No Tag, NARC, or backup lasers, and too much useless ammo which will never be used. That's just crap.

If you have LRMs on your team and you refuse to get locks you're only hurting yourself.
But, as many others already said, if I'm fighting I'll target whatever I'm shooting at to see weak spots, and I'll change targets as often as I have to.


On a side note: increased LRM range got to be the most useless weapon module and I feel sorry for everyone who got it

Black Phoebe, on 28 October 2016 - 06:38 PM, said:

The problem with this school of thinking is, that it kills diversity. Bringing any assault but a KDK-3 will average to a worse result for almost all players, just to name one example. So, if i would always take the best, i would not be allowed to pilot my Stalkers, Warhawks or Atlai. That's a pretty bad thing for a game that lives from people who play Pokemech. As far as i'm concerned, everything is fine, as long as you can maintain a w/l ratio around 1 and my lurmboats can do this just fine, actually the worst of them is my HBK-4SP with a 1.07 ratio, which should be fine by your very own standards.

Everytime people discuss lrm they bring the worst examples like the infamous 900m-away-behind-a-building-lurmboat and everytime i ask myself why this stereotype is worse than the 1km-away-gauss-sniper or the 500m-away-ML-"brawler". Playing bad is not tied to the Mech or the weapon you use, it can happen with every combo, even in tier1 matches and with a meta Mech.

A well played and aggressive lrm boat is an asset, especially in the solo queue. While getting your own locks is an important skill for a lurmer, more locks mean more options. It is very common that the locks that are provided by your team are better than those you can get yourself (because of the "focus fire" it creates, just to name one reason). If you want to win, it is in your own interest to provide locks, as long as it does not put you in additional danger, like when you are brawling and you are facing the enemy anyway. And as far as "armor sharing" is concerned, with all the aggression lurms create in the opfor, a lurmboat within optimum range will share it's armor soon enough, long before all those ecm/erll/gauss/ppc snipers share theirs.

So, if someone tells you, that he brings lurms, don't call it "begging". Take it as a vital information and use it in a way that is beneficial for your team.

Well said.

Albino Boo, on 28 October 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

And for the billionth time lrms are worse than direct fire weapons. Anecdotal experience in two drops will not change the fact the doing 40 damage to one section armor will kill a mech quicker than doing 40 damage to 4 sections of armor.

You just miss one important point. To hit with direct fire weapons you have to expose yourself.
Why wouldn'd you like to save your armor and let LRMs soften up, for example a Dakka-Kodiak, before killing it?
All you need is someone at the flank who can lock it.
Also, LRMs don't mean you are not allowed to shoot other weapons aswell. It's firesupport and adds free damage.

One more thing about LRMs is denial.
Most players will seek cover if they get LRM warning, stopping or slowing a push, preventing snipers from dealing as much damage as they could and pinning enemies at a location.

Edited by Roadbuster, 29 October 2016 - 01:50 AM.

[Albino Boo]

Roadbuster, on 29 October 2016 - 01:29 AM, said:

I have no problem if people tell me they have LRMs or if they ask to hold locks.
I just can't stand people who don't do anything to get their own locks and just wait for their teammates to do the job.
And I hate people who bring nothing but LRMs. No Tag, NARC, or backup lasers, and too much useless ammo which will never be used. That's just crap.

If you have LRMs on your team and you refuse to get locks you're only hurting yourself.
But, as many others already said, if I'm fighting I'll target whatever I'm shooting at to see weak spots, and I'll change targets as often as I have to.


On a side note: increased LRM range got to be the most useless weapon module and I feel sorry for everyone who got it


Well said.


You just miss one important point. To hit with direct fire weapons you have to expose yourself.
Why wouldn'd you like to save your armor and let LRMs soften up, for example a Dakka-Kodiak, before killing it?
All you need is someone at the flank who can lock it.
Also, LRMs don't mean you are not allowed to shoot other weapons aswell. It's firesupport and adds free damage.

One more thing about LRMs is denial.
Most players will seek cover if they get LRM warning, stopping or slowing a push, preventing snipers from dealing as much damage as they could and pinning enemies at a location.

At least read the thread.

Albino Boo, on 28 October 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

You may be taking 0 damage but that mech spotting for you will be fired on by more mechs than if you shared your armor. Your spotter will die more quickly because they will take more damage. The other team will fire on targets that they can see so the rest of your team will take more damage because you will not expose yourself to fire. There is no advantage gained from being an undamaged lrm boat at 11-5.

Edited by Albino Boo, 29 October 2016 - 02:35 AM.

[Roadbuster]

Albino Boo, on 29 October 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

At least read the thread.

Usually a spotter doesn't stand right in the middle of the enemy team.



Btw. I didn't say one word about LRM boats.
I said that I can't stand people who bring nothing but LRMs.
Except equipping one LRM10 makes you an LRM boat.

Don't take everything black or white. There are not only direct fire mechs and LRM mechs, there are many in between. What if, god forbid, a direct fire mech equipps a LRM launcher and fires it at an enemy he can't hit with his other weapons?
Just saying.

Edited by Roadbuster, 29 October 2016 - 08:56 AM.

[jper4]

I always figured people would want to hold R so the LRMers could strip away all that pesky armor for you so your brawler can steal the kill from them once those tasty internal structures are revealed. I mean you do need to be rewarded for helping them out right?

[Penrose Willoughby]

Whenever I get into a match and someone says "LRM boat here, please hold locks" I make some sarcastic comment that I won't be locking at all that match, and tell the to get their own damn locks.

However, it's stupid not to lock. If there's a single red triangle anywhere, you should be locking. If you're fighting someone, you should definitely be locking. It's information, it's useful to everyone, and in fact, it's nice to have lrms rain down on the guy you're fighting.

The reason I give them a hard time is that a lot of LRM boaters seem to think that hanging at spawn and firing lrms into the side of a cliff is helpful. That's why I tell them to stick with the team and get their own locks.

[MW222]

Penrose Willoughby, on 01 November 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

Whenever I get into a match and someone says "LRM boat here, please hold locks" I make some sarcastic comment that I won't be locking at all that match, and tell the to get their own damn locks.

However, it's stupid not to lock. If there's a single red triangle anywhere, you should be locking. If you're fighting someone, you should definitely be locking. It's information, it's useful to everyone, and in fact, it's nice to have lrms rain down on the guy you're fighting.

The reason I give them a hard time is that a lot of LRM boaters seem to think that hanging at spawn and firing lrms into the side of a cliff is helpful. That's why I tell them to stick with the team and get their own locks.

I'm right with you about getting and holding locks.

But I would say instead of talking down to another player (a team mate) at the beginning of the match, how about you offer a constructive suggestion first? Other wise when you may need them they may, just may mind you; decide to ignore you for being dismissive. If you have eyes on a mech that has stepped behind cove and LRMS are not doing damage, you could let every one know and maybe even suggest a new target.

Everyone IS free to play their own game but it does tend to go better when everyone has close to or the same objective. Some players measure them selves by wins, ranking on leader boards and so on. I for one would much rather have someone say thanks for an assist or good call. The more assists I have the better I feel I have done but that may just be me.

[Lyoto Machida]

Penrose Willoughby, on 01 November 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

Whenever I get into a match and someone says "LRM boat here, please hold locks" I make some sarcastic comment that I won't be locking at all that match, and tell the to get their own damn locks.

However, it's stupid not to lock. If there's a single red triangle anywhere, you should be locking. If you're fighting someone, you should definitely be locking. It's information, it's useful to everyone, and in fact, it's nice to have lrms rain down on the guy you're fighting.

The reason I give them a hard time is that a lot of LRM boaters seem to think that hanging at spawn and firing lrms into the side of a cliff is helpful. That's why I tell them to stick with the team and get their own locks.

MW222, on 01 November 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

I'm right with you about getting and holding locks.

But I would say instead of talking down to another player (a team mate) at the beginning of the match, how about you offer a constructive suggestion first? Other wise when you may need them they may, just may mind you; decide to ignore you for being dismissive. If you have eyes on a mech that has stepped behind cove and LRMS are not doing damage, you could let every one know and maybe even suggest a new target.

Everyone IS free to play their own game but it does tend to go better when everyone has close to or the same objective. Some players measure them selves by wins, ranking on leader boards and so on. I for one would much rather have someone say thanks for an assist or good call. The more assists I have the better I feel I have done but that may just be me.

Nah...I tell people to get their own locks also. In my specific case, I'm not being a hypocrite since I'm frequently carrying LRMs myself. If people can't figure out how to use LRMs without relying on other people, that's their problem. Don't go into a match thinking people will carry your weight for you and you should be fine.

People will lock targets on their own...why aren't non-LRM players "begging" for locks at the beginning of a match?

[Tarl Cabot]

(chuckles) What is bad is having a player piloting an Atlas wanting us to hold locks, not get locks, and when you die you see he has Artemis LRMS and ERLL. But all that time he is has very little armor damage (not sharing armor) but in fact backing up to get out of LOS/HIDE on a down slope 700m away while firing LRMS instead (or in addition to) of using ERLL/etc, and the target he has locked-on has a red, weapon heavy, right side torso ready to pop (another IS mech).

When you see more "bad" LRM setups usage than good/competent setups, it is difficult to take anyone serious when they chat out LRMS, HOLD locks. Hold? ya haven't even bought dinner yet!!

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 01 November 2016 - 05:38 PM.

[Chados]

Best way to LRM is in the midrange game. Up where the action is, putting LRMs over the heads of,the brawlers and having secondary lasers and/or SRMs ready to join in. Catapults A1, C1, C4, and Butterbee, and all the Archers, have the ability to do this but the Cats are too fragile to get in and scrap anymore, sadly. I love packing a LRM5 or 10, or even a 15, just for general harassment and indirect fire, like when we are fighting over the center on Canyon Network, since all the punters seem to want to do that over and over and over and over again. I have more matches on Canyon than any other map.

The only effective way to deal with a Kodiak 3 (or for that matter, a uAC Dire Wolf) in the absence of your own Kodiak 3 is to hunker down and LRM it til it's stripped, then gang-bang it with several friends. Otherwise you peek out for a microsecond and pull back either instadead or at best with half your mech missing and the other half stripped.

Get locks. They pay. I want every friendly LRM on the map hitting the enemy Kodiaks and either forcing them to hide so the Jenners can ambush them or stripping them so the rest of us can get rid of them. LRMs. Best bear repellent there is.

[SuomiWarder]

When I am LRM heavy on my build I never ask for locks. I do mention that I am LRM heavy so if anyone wants a specific target sanded down lock and call the target. Snipers that want to distract a target with LRM hits and big mechs engaged with lights that are running around them tend to be request missile support the most. Otherwise I just look for the best targets when the fighting finally gets thick or when I have my own lock.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

@The6thMessenger: I don't have any issues with experienced LRM users who are realistic enough to understand what holding a lock entails, and don't expect their team mates to commit suicide on their account. Worst of all are the ones who get upset when allies don't kill themselves to hold locks, so as long as that isn't you, there isn't a problem.

[LordNothing]

i would prefer people hit r without being told that someone else has lerms. why shoot a fresh ct when your enemy's legs are made of cherry jello. and frankly i cant remember the last time someone actually rained on a mech i was brawling with. that rain actually gives me an advantage over my foe you know.

Edited by LordNothing, 01 November 2016 - 11:06 PM.

[kesmai]

Dammit.
Stfu and hold locks.

[Vellron2005]

I've been playing my LURMdog alot lately, especially during this last event. Standard 6 x LRM5 + 5 SERML.. I've been kicking *** with it, so much in fact that It's been a constant that I get 1-3 kills, or KMDD's.

Also, I've noticed that I've become the most damaging player on my team more often than not. One match, I actually held off the enemy with my LRM's controlling the field so much that my teammates performed a very successful flank.

Here's what I've learned from all of this:

1) LRM's work best in medium to short range.

2) Simply stick to your teammates / lance, you WILL get lots of locks.

3) Use that friggin' UAV. One match, I even got a teammate say, and I quote "Wooooow, great UAV man!" I lit up the enemy and we LURM'd the flack out of them. Together.

4) LRM's control what your enemy can do and see as much as a stream of dakka. I faced a warhammer face 2 face, and LURMed it from just 200+ meters, straight in the face, it started cowering and retreating, and I advanced and kept lurming till it was dead. I get the same reaction in a KDK-3.

5) LRM's are great for hunting "the last guy", cose' there's always some light teammate who will find him, and then you can help him get the last guy down from long range. You help him, and get that last kill assist.

6) LRM's are great for shooting at the enemy when there's a big arse Direwolf blocking the narrow path in front of you.

7) Best strategy for using LRM's is being in the second line, just behind a beefy assault, not too far from the enemy (200-600 meters away). That way the target has not time to avoid your missiles, and if you perfect the art of "flowing" with your meat shield, you two can make a deadly team. You will take some damage and share the armor, but the asault will do his job, and you will do yours. Focus fire and "flow" with your teammate. NEVER ever block his retreat. Instead, anticipate his movements, and back up as he does, or advance as he does.

[NighthawK1337]

I'm the brother he mentioned. We're actually identical twins, I main a 12 ERSL Nova with 3 Overload AMS, TC1, CAP, Seismic Sensor, and Target Info Gathering. As you can see I'm a brawler, a laser brawler. Pinpoint accuracy into cored components and terrain movements is my thing so I hold locks while brawling like what a brawler and Tier 2 is supposed to do. I like getting the first locks in the match so that I can get that sweet 3k C-bill scouting bonus. I also like not worrying about LRMs and I tell my team that I have 3 Overload AMS just at the start of the match just to give them a little morale boost or even to encourage them to play a little more aggressively.

Why I said to him to "Stop begging for locks, In higher tiers begging for locks is frowned upon" , this was a reply to his earlier statement. He says at the start of the match usually "Something,something..... I'll bring the lurms, please hold locks"(ok maybe not that exact), but then after a particularly bad match that he wasn't able to use his "Lurms" he said the usual words then added "our teammates last match didn't hold locks for us so we lost". (we were queued in the same team in PUG quite a few times)

Saying that you have LRMs is good if you want your team to know your loadout but blaming others because they didn't hold locks for you is just bad. There are lot of factors at play, like ECM, Radar Deprivation or just not wanting to get shredded for a measly LRM5 spam, very bad trade.

Get Artemis and TAG, and hold line of sight for yourself if the others can't get it, begging for locks and then making it their fault that you can't do your job properly just puts everyone else off.

I don't need someone telling me how to do my job so that their job will be a lot easier.

I usually encourage new players, especially ones moving up tiers, I usually give tips and words of encouragement but you're my twin brother so I can by harsher.

Git gud.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 02 November 2016 - 04:41 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

NighthawK1337, on 02 November 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

Why I said to him to "Stop begging for locks, In higher tiers begging for locks is frowned upon" , this was a reply to his earlier statement. He says at the start of the match usually "Something,something..... I'll bring the lurms, please hold locks"(ok maybe not that exact), but then after a particularly bad match that he wasn't able to use his "Lurms" he said the usual words then added "our teammates last match didn't hold locks for us so we lost". (we were queued in the same team in PUG quite a few times)

I didn't say that we lost because of the lock.

We were against a light that time during a conquest. I was asking help to lock the light so we can deal with the light much more effectively. Those little buggers are really hard to deal with -- i have homing weapons, i can lurm them down. I just asked help to hold lock with that little bugger, then all hell breaks loose.

NighthawK1337, on 02 November 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

Saying that you have LRMs is good if you want your team to know your loadout but blaming others because they didn't hold locks for you is just bad. There are lot of factors at play, like ECM, Radar Deprivation or just not wanting to get shredded for a measly LRM5 spam, very bad trade.

Yes, because whenever i ask them to hold locks, that means i want them to stand smack dab in the middle of the fight and tank damage just so i could just stay back and lurm them to death, without even using the ERLL i brought.

NighthawK1337, on 02 November 2016 - 04:29 AM, said:

Get Artemis and TAG, and hold line of sight for yourself if the others can't get it, begging for locks and then making it their fault that you can't do your job properly just puts everyone else off.

Yes, because you put Artemis on LRM5s.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 November 2016 - 04:52 AM.

[NighthawK1337]

The6thMessenger, on 02 November 2016 - 04:48 AM, said:

I didn't say that we lost because of the lock.

We were against a light that time during a conquest. I was asking help to lock the light so we can deal with the light much more effectively. Those little buggers are really hard to deal with -- i have homing weapons, i can lurm them down. I just asked help to hold lock with that little bugger, then all hell breaks loose.

Uh yes you did. The very next match you blamed our previous team mates for not holding locks for you,

[The6thMessenger]

NighthawK1337, on 02 November 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

Uh yes you did. The very next match you blamed our previous team mates for not holding locks for you,

No i didn't.

After the match, we talked directly, not in game. I was disappointed that i could not kill the little b, and you blame me by not getting my own lock.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 02 November 2016 - 05:02 AM.

[NighthawK1337]

The6thMessenger, on 02 November 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

No i didn't.

After the match, we talked directly, not in game. I was disappointed that i could not kill the little *******, and you blame me by not getting my own lock.

I talked to you IRL and Ingame. Seriously this won't just end, you'll never accept that you were wrong, you'll never admit that you blamed others for your own failings. I never blamed LRM boats for not using their LRMs, as far as I'm concerned I never plan the whole match around their presence, sure I'd tell assaults that they're wasting their tonnage when they build LRM only boats but that's because they're 100 ton mechs that supposed to be sharing armor. I'll tell you again what I told you back then in game and IRL.

Begging for locks in higher tiers is frowned upon.

and I'll even add something new.

Never blame others for not doing what you were supposed to be doing yourself.

The6thMessenger, on 02 November 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

Yes, because whenever i ask them to hold locks, that means i want them to stand smack dab in the middle of the fight and tank damage just so i could just stay back and lurm them to death, without even using the ERLL i brought.

Because that's what you're asking when you beg for locks, that's why people react negatively. Maybe instead of blaming the previous team you should have added to your usual announcement of being a lurmer that "no worries though, don't hold locks on my account, just whenever it is convenient" But then that's not what you did, you can sass all you want but the fact is you blamed others for not doing your job for you.

The6thMessenger, on 02 November 2016 - 04:52 AM, said:

Yes, because you put Artemis on LRM5s.

People actually do because they want the 50% reduction in lock time because of the sporadic nature of getting locks, just ask the ALRM5 MDDs, yes I know that's not what you're piloting, what I'm saying that if you want to use LRMs, Artemis is pretty much the way to go because you can react and fire quicker. Very noticable if the enemy mech has an ECM.

Edited by NighthawK1337, 02 November 2016 - 05:20 AM.