301 replies to this topic

[Mole]

TLBFestus, on 26 October 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Has anyone checked on BloodWolf?

I'm talkin' SEIZURES of APOPLEXY here......

I haven't seen the guy at all in a few days since... a certain something happened... and I have reason to suspect, though I have no proof here and this is purely a hunch, that he may have earned himself another little "vacation" from the forums.

[Mystere]

Cementi, on 26 October 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

I feel something needs to be done ...

I find that actions triggered by such sentiments seldom work well. At times they even create bigger disasters if not outright tragedies.

<Can you say Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen?>

Edited by Mystere, 27 October 2016 - 06:52 AM.

[Mystere]

Rampage, on 26 October 2016 - 11:09 PM, said:

No, take the over performing Mechs and tap them down a bit. Power creep is a thing. TTK is short enough already.

I say the culprits for low TTK are focus firing (which is fine) and automatic near-instant pinpoint convergence. The latter really needs to be taken care of.

[cazidin]

Why is everyone celebrating? Now we're stuck with Ghost Heat and either PGI will forget about Energy Draw, like Info War, or they'll think of something even worse and skip the test phase completely.

[Mystere]

MrMadguy, on 27 October 2016 - 12:24 AM, said:

And that Lights should have some drawbacks too - and range should be one of them. Cuz now things, like CER-LL-vomit, don't have any drawbacks, so brawlers can't even show their noses out of cover.

We already know very well you hate ERLL lights all the way to hell and back.

[Bud Crue]

cazidin, on 27 October 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

Why is everyone celebrating? Now we're stuck with Ghost Heat and either PGI will forget about Energy Draw, like Info War, or they'll think of something even worse and skip the test phase completely.

Energy Draw was just a different version of ghost heat...
...but with hotter ac5s, SRMs that spread more, LRMs that could heat you up as quick as any energy build, LPLs that did less damage, where 4 clan ermls triggerd it, etc. So yea foks are happy because the current ghost heat, is frankly more or less functional and at least predictable when compared to the new ghost heat that is ED

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 27 October 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

We already know very well you hate ERLL lights all the way to hell and back.

Which is funny given how weak they really are outside of the ERLL SDR-5K that EmP likes on certain maps.

Honestly out of the entire ED PTS, there are a few changes that are unrelated I hope they bring here (15% global cooldown nerf, more skill tree nerfs, and 1.5 heat on AC5s) but some of the others can stay where they belong (large laser nerfs, increased SRM spread, massive cooldown nerf to Gauss/AC5s, lack of lowering heat on AC2s further, etc).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 27 October 2016 - 07:17 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

cazidin, on 27 October 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

Why is everyone celebrating? Now we're stuck with Ghost Heat and either PGI will forget about Energy Draw, like Info War, or they'll think of something even worse and skip the test phase completely.

Because we like variety and balance? Many people are only seeing what they WANT to see about Energy Draw and ignoring it's inherent issues just because it's something different.

[Cold Darkness]

what i find funny in this thread is that people just go ahead and assume that the weaponchanges are reliant on energy draw. there is no reason to assume that pulse lasers and AC5s wont be changed even if ED would never be implemented, those weapons are subject to changes, because they outperform their competition.

on a side note:
lets try to sum up why people hate on energy draw. my attempt is as follows:

increased face time

there. seems pretty reasonable.

[Gas Guzzler]

Cold Darkness, on 27 October 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

what i find funny in this thread is that people just go ahead and assume that the weaponchanges are reliant on energy draw. there is no reason to assume that pulse lasers and AC5s wont be changed even if ED would never be implemented, those weapons are subject to changes, because they outperform their competition.

on a side note:
lets try to sum up why people hate on energy draw. my attempt is as follows:

increased face time

there. seems pretty reasonable.

It also affects DPS and burst DPS differently ( unbalanced)

[Deathlike]

Cold Darkness, on 27 October 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

what i find funny in this thread is that people just go ahead and assume that the weaponchanges are reliant on energy draw. there is no reason to assume that pulse lasers and AC5s wont be changed even if ED would never be implemented, those weapons are subject to changes, because they outperform their competition.

on a side note:
lets try to sum up why people hate on energy draw. my attempt is as follows:

increased face time

there. seems pretty reasonable.

Increased facetime actually means reduced TTK. The longer a mech has to stare at its target, the less likey that mech survives the return fire it gets.

This isn't rocket science here.

[Tordin]

Xmith, on 26 October 2016 - 05:38 PM, said:

Darn, I was hoping for a change to gameplay real soon. I'm ready for the challenge right now.

I'm amazed at the folks that seem to be scared to death. ED won't be that bad until you adapt.

You will adapt, right?

They should have made the test public if possible. If the ED would be for the better, then there could be a chance the anti ED mob could be curbed somewhat. I agree with those that SEE how a bad version of ED could hurt alredy struggling mechs and loadouts. But Im totally against and despise those blindstruck shiznos that are against ED because they are afraid of change and their comfort zone, l33t builds. Crybaby tryhards!

The thing now is that PGI need to find the ED changes that dont give those spoiled jade statues any arguments (oh im sure you will whine nontheless, like with the info warfare, laser lock fiasco!)
And HELP the struggling mechs and benefits for having more mixed loadouts and make alpha strikes more akin to lore, a last resort/ certain occasion option.

[Bud Crue]

Cold Darkness, on 27 October 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

what i find funny in this thread is that people just go ahead and assume that the weaponchanges are reliant on energy draw. there is no reason to assume that pulse lasers and AC5s wont be changed even if ED would never be implemented, those weapons are subject to changes, because they outperform their competition.

on a side note:
lets try to sum up why people hate on energy draw. my attempt is as follows:

increased face time

there. seems pretty reasonable.

Bah!

I had no problem with the early versions of ED because most of my current builds aren't affected by it much or at all. Face time is not the issue, at least for me. My beef is an utter lack of rational relationship between the proposed mechanic and game play. You may be right in that the various mish-mash of weapons changes that were thrown into the ED testing may be introduced at some point sans ED, but if so those changes do come into play they will be in a context that we all recognize and understand. Throwing them in, near simultaneously, on top of a completely new mechanic, makes it impossible for the players OR THE DEVS to have any understanding of what or how any given change is affecting any other. That is not a good idea in any system, RL, this game, anything. Mucking with lots of stuff simultaneously makes it literally impossible for anyone to know how any individual aspect of that system is affected...yet that is ED in its current form.

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 October 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[Mystere]

Tordin, on 27 October 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

They should have made the test public if possible. If the ED would be for the better, then there could be a chance the anti ED mob could be curbed somewhat. I agree with those that SEE how a bad version of ED could hurt alredy struggling mechs and loadouts. But Im totally against and despise those blindstruck shiznos that are against ED because they are afraid of change and their comfort zone, l33t builds. Crybaby tryhards!

People keep saying this, but I'm not noticing much of it. Would you care to provide examples that I probably missed?

Tordin, on 27 October 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

The thing now is that PGI need to find the ED changes that dont give those spoiled jade statues any arguments (oh im sure you will whine nontheless, like with the info warfare, laser lock fiasco!)
And HELP the struggling mechs and benefits for having more mixed loadouts and make alpha strikes more akin to lore, a last resort/ certain occasion option.

As others have already mentioned, the problem with ED is that it actually discourages mixed loadouts.

Edited by Mystere, 27 October 2016 - 07:41 AM.

[Cold Darkness]

Gas Guzzler, on 27 October 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

It also affects DPS and burst DPS differently ( unbalanced)

the increased face time was (and still is) the most used argument versus mixed builds, which is the biggest argument dropped in most discussions on the matter. i think we can agree on that much. it effectively makes burst builds (high boated or mixed alphas, multiple big uacs etc.) take higher face time while it limits the output on things like quad uac5s. i believe giving those kind of builds higher face time is potentially a good idea (there have be done some other things, though. without additional changes it would be a bad thing.) and increasing maximum dps isnt actually even remotely hard to do in this system, since they could just increase energy regeneration, so technically this isnt a point people should go on barricades against (this is the stuff that should be fine tuned on ptrs, but ehhhh whatever, its pgi)

Deathlike, on 27 October 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

Increased facetime actually means reduced TTK. The longer a mech has to stare at its target, the less likey that mech survives the return fire it gets.

This isn't rocket science here.

not quite sure if i should take your post in any way seriously, considering you have failed to understand the intend behind my post and got me such a ridiculous ******** answer instead.

just to be sure: i simply pointed to the increase of face time, so people would start discussing based on the biggest issue with energy draw, instead of doing abstract arguments based on energy draw as a whole. many of the planned ED mechanics are solid ideas in a mediocre package and the increased face time for mixed builds is easily the biggest (not the only as gas guzzler pointed out) issues with the package.

[Gas Guzzler]

Tordin, on 27 October 2016 - 07:27 AM, said:

They should have made the test public if possible. If the ED would be for the better, then there could be a chance the anti ED mob could be curbed somewhat. I agree with those that SEE how a bad version of ED could hurt alredy struggling mechs and loadouts. But Im totally against and despise those blindstruck shiznos that are against ED because they are afraid of change and their comfort zone, l33t builds. Crybaby tryhards!

The thing now is that PGI need to find the ED changes that dont give those spoiled jade statues any arguments (oh im sure you will whine nontheless, like with the info warfare, laser lock fiasco!)
And HELP the struggling mechs and benefits for having more mixed loadouts and make alpha strikes more akin to lore, a last resort/ certain occasion option.

Dude nobody is worried about changing their top builds. Get that through your head.

The problem is ED actually nerfs mediocre builds and leaves some top tier builds untouched or only slightly set back. That is the number 1 cause of my concerns! I don't care about changing mechs, I just want more than a couple mechs to have a role, and I can tell from testing that ED is going to significantly take away from that.

Again, nobody is worried about changing builds. Please stop spreading this fallacy.

[smokefield]

Quote

So.
Now.
Can we have new maps or gamemode or maybe a new weapon system or something? You know. Content?

pgi should focus this time and energy they seem to have on improving CW. that is what the core game should be and that should be the main thing attracting new players. A real CW with progress, missions, planets (that have different maps !!) that gets people hooked to the game. Not the joke we have now.

[Scout Derek]

Mole, on 27 October 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

I haven't seen the guy at all in a few days since... a certain something happened... and I have reason to suspect, though I have no proof here and this is purely a hunch, that he may have earned himself another little &quot;vacation&quot; from the forums.

Can confirm. being a ****** on the forums is not tolerated. flaunting, taunting, and otherwise being a, once again, ***, can finally even make higher ups not very happy.

I know John Wolf, I know.....

[Hunka Junk]

Cold Darkness, on 27 October 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

what i find funny in this thread is that people just go ahead and assume that the weaponchanges are reliant on energy draw. there is no reason to assume that pulse lasers and AC5s wont be changed even if ED would never be implemented, those weapons are subject to changes, because they outperform their competition.

on a side note:
lets try to sum up why people hate on energy draw. my attempt is as follows:

increased face time

there. seems pretty reasonable.

Because it makes **** for sense. So I'm riding a mini nuclear reactor. I get the ideas of my lasers drawing energy from it. Why the fudge are my cannons and missiles going to draw energy? Moreover, when I've used up all my energy, I...overheat? No, I don't because I have no energy left.

That aside, ED is a model of how PGI development works. The large ever-pulsating brain the size of a barn that constitutes the company think tank will overheat if it thinks about more than one thing at a time, and right now it's been thinking about energy draw. You ain't gonna get all that other stuff you want if the great minds have exhausted themselves thinking about how to replace one bad meta with another bad meta.

It also falls into the greater category of reworks. PGI wuvs reworks cuz reworks are an excuse not to work on all that other stuff you want.

Edited by Hunka Junk, 27 October 2016 - 08:05 AM.

[Almond Brown]

DaZur, on 26 October 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Understood... But then again, nowhere did PGI infer they were perfectly happy with ED in its present iteration with intent to jam it down everyone's throat. If fact to the contrary they made a point to say it would not release until it was able to "reasonably" meet the majorities expectations.

But nope... as usual, folks flailed about the forum in epileptic seizures.

And who knew that "everyone", apparently, drives their Gargoyle C with its Lore lore load-out, all the time.... LOL