19 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

(Is / Clan, Tonnage / Crit, Balance Concept!)

Andi Nagasia, on 14 September 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

ok with the all the IS to Clan Balance Talks about,
and it seems like Every Discussion leads into an Epeen Contest,

Let me Bring Something up that Many feel is or isnt important,
the Tonnage and Crit differences between IS and Clan Weapons,
Weapon Balance Aside, it seems like Tonnage/Crit are their own Discussion,


=Thoughts on Balance=
This Topic is to Discuss the Balance between Faction, Tonnage and Crits,
In doing, This Topic Assumes that all Weapons are balanced Stats wise,
(they may not be but thats for another Topic not this one)
-
But why Discuss IS to Clan, Tonnage and Crits?
Because many Good Topics on Clan Balancing have been shot down on it,
Valid ideas Cast aside, because Clan Weapons are Abit smaller and Weigh less,
This Topic Seeks to Discuss this and Find a Solution to Tonnage & Crit Balance,


=Current Weapons=
=Energy=
Small Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits,
Medium Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits,
-
IS Large Lasers take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan ERLL,
IS Large Pulse take up 1 more Ton vs Clan LPL,

=Ballistic=
IS AC2 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton But 1 Less Crit vs Clan UAC2 +Ammo,
IS AC5 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan UAC5 +Ammo,
IS AC10 +Ammo take up 2 more Tons and 2 more Crit vs Clan AC10 +Ammo,
IS AC20 +Ammo take up 2 more Tons and 2 more Crit vs Clan UAC20 +Ammo,
IS Gauss +Ammo take up 3 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan Gauss +Ammo,

=Missile=
IS LRM5 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM5 +Ammo,
IS LRM10 +Ammo take up 2.5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM10 +Ammo,
IS LRM15 +Ammo take up 3.5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM15 +Ammo,
IS LRM20 +Ammo take up 5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan LRM20 +Ammo,
-
IS SRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 more Ton vs Clan SRM2 +Ammo,
IS SRM4 +Ammo take up 1 more Ton vs Clan SRM4 +Ammo,
IS SRM6 +Ammo take up 1.5 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan SRM6 +Ammo,
-
IS SSRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 more Ton vs Clan SSRM2 +Ammo,



=0=My Solution=0=
Lasers are mostly Fine, but for Missiles and Ballistics,
give all IS Ammo Based Weapons 1Free Ton of Ammo
this Balances out the Problem almost Completely,

=NEW Weapons=
=Energy=(No Change)=
Small Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan,
Medium Lasers/Pulse take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan,
-
IS Large Lasers take up 1 more Ton and 1 more Crit vs Clan ERLL,
IS Large Pulse take up 1 more Ton vs Clan LPL,

=Ballistic=(IS +1FreeAmmo(1FreeTon&1FreeCrit)=
IS AC2 +Ammo take up same Tonnage But 2 Less Crits vs Clan UAC2 +Ammo,
IS AC5 +Ammo take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan UAC5 +Ammo,
IS AC10 +Ammo take up 1 more Tons and 1 more Crit vs Clan AC10 +Ammo,
IS AC20 +Ammo take up 1 more Tons and 1 more Crit vs Clan UAC20 +Ammo,
IS Gauss +Ammo take up 2 more Ton vs Clan Gauss +Ammo,

=Missile=(IS +1FreeAmmo(1FreeTon&1FreeCrit)=
IS LRM5 +Ammo take up same Tonnage and Crits as Clan5 +Ammo,
IS LRM10 +Ammo take up 1.5 more Ton vs Clan LRM10 +Ammo,
IS LRM15 +Ammo take up 2.5 more Ton vs Clan LRM15 +Ammo,
IS LRM20 +Ammo take up 4 more Ton vs Clan LRM20 +Ammo,
-
IS SRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 Less Ton and 1 Less Crit vs Clan SRM2 +Ammo,
IS SRM4 +Ammo take up 1 Less Crit vs Clan SRM4 +Ammo,
IS SRM6 +Ammo take up 0.5 more Ton vs Clan SRM6 +Ammo,
-
IS SSRM2 +Ammo take up 0.5 Less Ton and 1 Less Crit vs Clan SSRM2 +Ammo,

As you can See the Weapons Now Appear more Balanced,
some Larger Ballistics and Missiles are Still down but are Much Closer,
This Also Keeps with the Idea that IS & Clan are to be Asymmetrically Balanced,
Equal But Play abit different for Flavor and Fluff of the Faction,
-
this Change also give some Smaller IS weapons Advantage over Clan,
Such as AC2s and SRM2-4, this will also Encourage Lights to take these Weapons,
Which Could really help some IS Tonnage Starved Lights, (LCT, COM, ect),


=8=Please NOTE=8=
Im not Proposing the Changing of Tonnage or Crits for Any Weapon,
Im Proposing Every IS Ammo Weapon Gain a(1) Free Ton of Ammo Internally,
this is to bring IS Weapon Tonnage and Crits closer to Clan Weapons,
(think of a Pistol with 1Shot in the Chamber, same concept)


=0=Explanations=0=
=Game Reason=
For Balance Purposes of IS Ammo Based Weapons will have 1 Ton Ammo Built into the Weapon,
This is here to Negate the Advantage of Clan Weapons Weighing less and taking up less Crits,
-
=Lore Reason=
due to the Feed Type Systems of the IS, all IS Ammo Weapons have to be Pre-loaded with Ammo,
Clans due to their Technology have be able to Negate this with Advanced Feed Systems leading to Lighter Weapons,


+Special Note+
Tonnage/Crit of IS PPC/LL/LPL could also be balanced the same way,
by giving every IS PPC/LL/LPL by having 1HS built into the Weapon,

=(Please Vote)=

this Topic(Quote) will be Updated as i Update the Main Topic in Feature Suggestion,
(this will happen as i refine my Wording, So i can Say what i Mean, & Mean what i Say)
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 27 October 2016 - 08:04 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

So essentially the IS weapons get one free ton of ammo?

[Andi Nagasia]

Lyoto Machida, on 27 October 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

So essentially the IS weapons get one free ton of ammo?

yes helping balance them Tonnage & Crit Wise to Clan Weapons,

[Lyoto Machida]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 October 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

yes helping balance them Tonnage & Crit Wise to Clan Weapons,

Or you could up IS ammo per ton numbers (assuming Clan ammo isn't tied to that).

[Requiemking]

Ugh, won't you let this die? I've already told you why this is a bad idea. So stop petitioning for this. It would break the game almost as badly as ED.

[RestosIII]

Requiemking, on 27 October 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

Ugh, won't you let this die? I've already told you why this is a bad idea. So stop petitioning for this. It would break the game almost as badly as ED.

Oh no, that spider has 4 tons of MG ammo now for free! What will we ever do?!?!

[Andi Nagasia]

Requiemking, on 27 October 2016 - 10:50 PM, said:

Ugh, won't you let this die? I've already told you why this is a bad idea. So stop petitioning for this. It would break the game almost as badly as ED.

Giving IS Lights and Mediums More Ammo for their Weapons is a Bad idea?
how many IS lights do we feel Floating around these Days? not many, this allows for Lights with SRMs to be a thing,
it wont be good, but it will be better than it is now, also more Tonnage means more Tonnage for a Larger Engine,
or Perhaps taking that XL out in-place of a STD? ant CN9 would be able to save 3-5Tons base on weapons,

as i said this would close the Power Gap between IS and Clan,
we could start seeing Clan mechs getting Structure Quirks to help them,
the MLX & ADR could see Real Quirks, Quirks they need & deserve,
not that -2.5% Energy Heat Gen isnt Amazing on its own,
or the wonderful -3% Missile Cooldown,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 27 October 2016 - 11:16 PM.

[El Bandito]

You also need to make a thread about Clan vs IS equipment balance. Cause Clan FF/Endo that take only half the slots compared to IS ones is blatantly unbalanced. Not to mention free CASE, lighter and more compact ECM, AP, NARC for Clanners etc...

Edited by El Bandito, 27 October 2016 - 11:22 PM.

[RAM]

Code of Conduct said:

SPAMMING

• Sending the same communication in multiple areas.
  
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If you cannot moderate yourself, how can you expect to moderate others?


RAM
ELH

[DAYLEET]

RestosIII, on 27 October 2016 - 10:57 PM, said:

Oh no, that spider has 4 tons of MG ammo now for free! What will we ever do?!?!

You will crumble, driven under the spider strength and the lamentation of your wife will be seen by the spider.

[RestosIII]

DAYLEET, on 28 October 2016 - 12:10 AM, said:

You will crumble, driven under the spider strength and the lamentation of your wife will be seen by the spider.

I submit before our Spider overlords. (If it wasn't 4 AM, and and I was at my computer, I would edit the gif of Spongebob bowing down to be towards a Spider. I might do it tomorrow if I remember to)

[Requiemking]

Andi Nagasia, on 27 October 2016 - 11:14 PM, said:

Giving IS Lights and Mediums More Ammo for their Weapons is a Bad idea?
how many IS lights do we feel Floating around these Days? not many, this allows for Lights with SRMs to be a thing,
it wont be good, but it will be better than it is now, also more Tonnage means more Tonnage for a Larger Engine,
or Perhaps taking that XL out in-place of a STD? ant CN9 would be able to save 3-5Tons base on weapons,

as i said this would close the Power Gap between IS and Clan,
we could start seeing Clan mechs getting Structure Quirks to help them,
the MLX & ADR could see Real Quirks, Quirks they need & deserve,
not that -2.5% Energy Heat Gen isnt Amazing on its own,
or the wonderful -3% Missile Cooldown,

And, what, give the Atlas and Mauler even more ammo for no cost what so ever? And also, IS Lights with SRMs are a thing. It's called Oxide, and I'm pretty sure you've seen him kicking around. No, IS ballistics and missiles don't need Ghost ammo. They already perform better than Clan equivalents. Giving them Ghost ammo will make them strictly superior.

[Mechteric]

Ammo should just be double TT for all, it only makes sense due to the double TT armor.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 28 October 2016 - 09:42 AM.

[Navid A1]

Do you know what is THE single most ammo-starved mech?

The summoner!.. and it is a clan mech!!!!

[Andi Nagasia]

El Bandito, on 27 October 2016 - 11:21 PM, said:

You also need to make a thread about Clan vs IS equipment balance. Cause Clan FF/Endo that take only half the slots compared to IS ones is blatantly unbalanced. Not to mention free CASE, lighter and more compact ECM, AP, NARC for Clanners etc...

one step at a time, this will atleast help this Problem, if not much than atleast a bit,
but thats another Topic, to be had Later,

Requiemking, on 28 October 2016 - 08:28 AM, said:

And, what, give the Atlas and Mauler even more ammo for no cost what so ever? And also, IS Lights with SRMs are a thing. It's called Oxide, and I'm pretty sure you've seen him kicking around. No, IS ballistics and missiles don't need Ghost ammo. They already perform better than Clan equivalents. Giving them Ghost ammo will make them strictly superior.

what would this Give Atlas & Maulers? more ammo, allowing for STD engines or more DHSs,
this also allows Mechs like the Clan DWF to get Structure Quirks helping increase TTK,
-
we shouldnt Balance the Game off of one Unit, yes Oxides do get a Buff from this,
but so do all other Lights, so perhaps the Oxide can lose some of its Quirks in the name of Balance,
its easier to do a Global Buff then Nerf 1 Thing, then Individually Buff 39 separate things,

CapperDeluxe, on 28 October 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Ammo should just be double TT for all, it only makes sense due to the double TT armor.

Agreed, 200Damage Per Ton of Ammo should be a thing, but thats another Topic,

Navid A1, on 28 October 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Do you know what is THE single most ammo-starved mech?

The summoner!.. and it is a clan mech!!!!

it cant run multiple ballistics well, but it can run 1Ballistic +Lasers well,
i do agree it needs a buff, and as this Raises the IS bar, perhaps we can see more Clan Quirks,
more Armor and Structure could make the SMN a Tank and greatly help its survivability,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 28 October 2016 - 12:18 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

RestosIII, on 28 October 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

I submit before our Spider overlords.

just wait for the 6MG Spider,

[N0ni]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 October 2016 - 06:09 PM, said:

just wait for the 6MG Spider,

Don't spook Paul like that, he recently stopped having those nightmares.

[Kanil]

Navid A1, on 28 October 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Do you know what is THE single most ammo-starved mech?

The summoner!.. and it is a clan mech!!!!

I'll forgive you for having never driven a Commando, most people haven't, really.

Edit: i mean, seriously. If you run max engine, max armor, and ECM -- all no brainers, you get about 2 tons of ammo for a pair of SRM-4s. Summoner my ***.

Edited by Kanil, 30 October 2016 - 07:37 PM.

[Navid A1]

Kanil, on 30 October 2016 - 07:31 PM, said:

I'll forgive you for having never driven a Commando, most people haven't, really.

Edit: i mean, seriously. If you run max engine, max armor, and ECM -- all no brainers, you get about 2 tons of ammo for a pair of SRM-4s. Summoner my ***.

lol

How about running an XL200 with 3 SRM2s with 2.5t ammo and a med pulse laser and ECM.

l2trollmando!

[Y E O N N E]

MLX is more ammo-starved than either SMN or CMD, though saying anything is ammo-starved is predicated upon which weapons we have equipped.