44 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 28 October 2016 - 09:54 PM, said:

The maps are bad. That cannot be denied. Two equal skilled teams ... the attacking team should lose each and every time if both teams are equal skilled and neither makes a mistake. The defending team has some rather dramatic advantages with the choke point management against the attacking team. That in an of itself makes the map / game mode bad. One way to off set it was to allow for a reasonable chance to win the "objective" by pushing hard on the objectives ... but now that is pretty hard to do. Much like the uber dequirkening of IS mechs while the Night Gyr and KDK-3 exist unfettered and all powerful.

Map balance is about as off (on some maps) as mech balance is. If you end up in a match between perfectly balanced teams it could be important.

It's not what's getting people farmed though. A critical issues in FW is a tendency of players to try and blame "the system" for their loss.

It's like being in an open water race and saying the waves were too choppy. Everyone is swimming in it - if you're getting rolled under the problem is you and your approach.

It's not really maps or mech balance - though both certainly influence wins. The vast bulk of that however is carried by playing as a team and putting the effort into that and brining a decent deck. Those two factors in FW overshadow every other factor in FW.

Maps are not terrible. Certainly most could stand a rework but they're not terrible. Most players are and they're terrible because they are unwilling to do what wins - bring good robbits and play as a team for the team win over trying to play like it's QP.

[Deathlike]

MischiefSC, on 29 October 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Map balance is about as off (on some maps) as mech balance is. If you end up in a match between perfectly balanced teams it could be important.

It's not what's getting people farmed though. A critical issues in FW is a tendency of players to try and blame "the system" for their loss.

It's like being in an open water race and saying the waves were too choppy. Everyone is swimming in it - if you're getting rolled under the problem is you and your approach.

It's not really maps or mech balance - though both certainly influence wins. The vast bulk of that however is carried by playing as a team and putting the effort into that and brining a decent deck. Those two factors in FW overshadow every other factor in FW.

Maps are not terrible. Certainly most could stand a rework but they're not terrible. Most players are and they're terrible because they are unwilling to do what wins - bring good robbits and play as a team for the team win over trying to play like it's QP.

Maps are a problem, but not the entire problem.

TL;DR of the matter is when people don't want to work together, they fail and fall together. It's as simple as that.

Edited by Deathlike, 29 October 2016 - 04:22 PM.

[DoctorDetroit]

What if players that earn less than 400 damage in a CW match without a disconnect receive a 1 week ban from CW?

Edited by DoctorDetroit, 29 October 2016 - 07:00 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

DoctorDetroit, on 29 October 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

What if players that earn less than 400 damage in a CW match without a disconnect receive a 1 week ban from CW?

Then the already low population of CW would loose 20% of its remaining population.

[MazeRunner]

DoctorDetroit, on 29 October 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

What if players that earn less than 400 damage in a CW match without a disconnect receive a 1 week ban from CW?

And any teams who gen-dunk also wouldn't bother.

As far as maps go, the only map I genuinely have an issue with is Grim Portico. Something about it drops my framerate from the usual 30 or so I get on other maps, down to about 15. Win or lose, I despise playing on that map.

[xe N on]

MischiefSC, on 28 October 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

. Quit ******* trying to play solo in FW, that's literally what's driving your losses.

Everything you say is right. FP is a game mode designed exclusively for competitive players or at least players with high ambitions. It should not played by casuals.

And because of that, it's dead. Wrong target audience.

Edited by xe N on, 29 October 2016 - 11:40 PM.

[Cox Devalis]

DoctorDetroit, on 29 October 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

What if players that earn less than 400 damage in a CW match without a disconnect receive a 1 week ban from CW?

Actually I'd like to support this but the problem is - could I learn to play CW being banned weekly?

[TheLuc]

When a game mode is a one trick pony it just shows how badly designed it is. CW/FW is a one trick pony, long, boring, not rewarding and when you a stuck bringing only meta mechs/builds shows how samey the mode is.

the highly repetitive nature of this game as a whole kills it, doesn't take a week to see every thing this game has to offer.

[Crockdaddy]

MischiefSC, on 29 October 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Map balance is about as off (on some maps) as mech balance is. If you end up in a match between perfectly balanced teams it could be important.

It's not what's getting people farmed though. A critical issues in FW is a tendency of players to try and blame "the system" for their loss.

It's like being in an open water race and saying the waves were too choppy. Everyone is swimming in it - if you're getting rolled under the problem is you and your approach.

It's not really maps or mech balance - though both certainly influence wins. The vast bulk of that however is carried by playing as a team and putting the effort into that and brining a decent deck. Those two factors in FW overshadow every other factor in FW.

Maps are not terrible. Certainly most could stand a rework but they're not terrible. Most players are and they're terrible because they are unwilling to do what wins - bring good robbits and play as a team for the team win over trying to play like it's QP.

I knew your thread would get a fair amount of attention so I thought I'd toss in map balance. Map balance does have one farming effect ... unless your group is very skilled and disciplined attacking into the choke point is a no fly zone. Even experienced groups have trouble with it at times.

[BuckshotSchell]

Are ya'll really asking if people blame the maps? I can't seem to find it but a couple week ago I started a thread similar to this, and got castigated for not understanding the map problems and how they effect balance. I even tried to explain that from a certain strategic stand point the maps make perfect sense. I mean after all if your defending the giant and very important "space cannon" would you not want it in a hard to get to spot? There were some good ideas about how to make it a little easier for the attackers like; alternate entrances, and (my favorite) hot combat drops with one of your drops out of the four straight into the base.

[Bloodwitch]

Kin3ticX, on 29 October 2016 - 01:19 AM, said:

I think the direction PGI took with maps was concern over knowing the map and having open maps, so the fix was gates and chokepoints galore

I wonder how the quickplay maps will work with dropdecks, seems like it could be a mess

It kinda appears that PGI took notes from other games about the map design. A horrible mistake considering MWO is supposed to be a simulator. If they had looked at other simulators (such as arma) and not arena based games (like LOL), we wouldn't have to stick to 3 way midlane chokepoint mapdesign made for dota and co.

as for quickplay with dropdecks (or how i will call it "faction play") it will, without a doubt, fail.

Edited by Kunato Developments, 31 October 2016 - 05:25 AM.

[Positive Mental Attitude]

TheLuc, on 30 October 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

When a game mode is a one trick pony it just shows how badly designed it is. CW/FW is a one trick pony, long, boring, not rewarding and when you a stuck bringing only meta mechs/builds shows how samey the mode is.

the highly repetitive nature of this game as a whole kills it, doesn't take a week to see every thing this game has to offer.

Spotted a quickplayer who stumbled into fw.

[BuckshotSchell]

Deethree, on 31 October 2016 - 08:55 AM, said:

Spotted a quickplayer who stumbled into fw.

Lmao Clearly!

Been playing lots of QP since the event has killed FW even worse. I never did much QP before and didn't realize how much different it really is. QP = easy mode by comparison!

[Count Zero74]

#blamethemapnottheplayer

[Smokeyjedi]

Me playing MWO solo drops........I carries all the teams LMAO but it is getting pretty derp-i-fied out there beyond whats normal.

[MischiefSC]

Crockdaddy, on 30 October 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

I knew your thread would get a fair amount of attention so I thought I'd toss in map balance. Map balance does have one farming effect ... unless your group is very skilled and disciplined attacking into the choke point is a no fly zone. Even experienced groups have trouble with it at times.

The problem is without that you have no way to defend. Without some sort of choke point i can objective rush FTW with impunity.

A "choke point" is, in truth, just a point where the defenders can force an engagement before the enemy gets to the objectives. Without that there is no viable defense. A village without walls or defensive structures can't defend itself in situ, it has to try and go meet the enemy in the field and fight them well before the village is in sight.

Removing choke points eliminates the point of attack/defend and means you have to just deathmatch every match. You need choke points to viably have objective based modes.

[Nightbird]

Just give the gates a health pool and let them be blown apart, and create 3 gates for every map around 30 seconds apart at least, and the choke points will be less of a problem.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

MischiefSC, on 02 November 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

The problem is without that you have no way to defend. Without some sort of choke point i can objective rush FTW with impunity.

A "choke point" is, in truth, just a point where the defenders can force an engagement before the enemy gets to the objectives. Without that there is no viable defense. A village without walls or defensive structures can't defend itself in situ, it has to try and go meet the enemy in the field and fight them well before the village is in sight.

Removing choke points eliminates the point of attack/defend and means you have to just deathmatch every match. You need choke points to viably have objective based modes.

Quick Play Conquest has objectives?
Quick Play Assault has objectives?
Quick Play Domination has objectives?

Quick Play seems to have a higher population of players then Faction Warfare?

Im not sure choke points are really needed?

[Stormie]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 02 November 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

Quick Play Conquest has objectives?
Quick Play Assault has objectives?
Quick Play Domination has objectives?

Quick Play seems to have a higher population of players then Faction Warfare?

Im not sure choke points are really needed?

Yes they have objectives, and all play like death match - I think you've just unwittingly backed up mischiefs point...

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Stormie, on 02 November 2016 - 05:42 PM, said:

Yes they have objectives, and all play like death match - I think you've just unwittingly backed up mischiefs point...

So 100% of conquest games end with total annihilation without anyone capping any points?

And faction warfare doesnt play out as death match?

Interesting...