44 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 02 November 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

So 100% of conquest games end with total annihilation without anyone capping any points?

And faction warfare doesnt play out as death match?

Interesting...

So have them be deathmatch. The problem is that if you have objectives but no visble means to defend them (positions from which to force engagement before objective) you have an indefensible position.

Just deathmatch however gets dull quick. The presence of objectives to pressure defender or draw attacker adds strategic depth that QP lacks.

FW had a robust population. Most left due to lack of purpose.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Hopefully mech com brings info that will lead to changes that will bring back population into FW.

[TWIAFU]

Deathlike, on 29 October 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

Maps are a problem, but not the entire problem.

TL;DR of the matter is when people don't want to work together, they fail and fall together. It's as simple as that.

In the game mode where teamwork is key and yet they still will not cooperate!

Instead of grouping, making a team, using the vast amount of tools at hand, these 'players' play FW as QP with respwan.

When that does not work it is the fault of everyone else, the MM, XYZ Mech, other team using teamwork, whatever the complain de jour is. Instead of stepping up to meet the challenge of working as a team, the team part has to be removed because, you know, it's to hard.

FW is going to be dumbed down, officially, to QP with respawn making it even worse and more actively avoided then it is now.

Just like VOIP and Faction Chat, the pugtards will get what they asked for and will not use it.

[Dex Spero]

Sjorpha, on 29 October 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

I get where you're coming from but I think it's a little unfair to imply that solos would start winning against good units if they only brought the right mechanism and played the right way and so on, I don't think that is true.

On behalf of pugs everywhere, Sjorpha, thank you. We are trying our best, learning as quickly as possible, and, sometimes, get a great, experienced drop leader. But a great leader and great effort and increased knowledge is never going to beat a team that practices together. We may win the occassional battle but we will never win the war.

Note: I am not saying we should be able to win the war. I definitely think success in FW should favour teams because MWO is a team game! I'm simply saying that the constant view that pugs lose because they suck or because they have crap builds or because their ego is in the way of learning is becoming tiresome. There are cases where that is true but just as many cases where it is not.

I definitely agree with Mischief's view that anyone blaming the map needs to take responsibility rather than blaming an environment that affects both teams equally. But we aren't losing for the A and B reasons he gives (well... actually... hmmm... let me rephrase: his A and B reasons are DEFINITELY contributing factors in some/many of our losses but I do not believe they are the main reason we are getting stomped). We lose because teamwork beats individualism and teamwork is developed over time and through shared experiences while working towards a common goal and there is simply no way to create that or even really fake that in the 10 minute waiting period before a drop or in the 1-3 minutes it takes for the enemy to come through the gate. The FW teams that stomp us have worked hard to develop themselves as a team, can predict each other's behaviour, can communicate effectively using previously established patterns and language. The could probably beat us even in poor builds or just using the trial mechs because of their teamwork. They deserve their victory (though it must be awfully boring for them in the same way as an NFL football team would get awfully tired of stomping the local highschool team).

BTW, I feel it necessary to share a thought regarding people's egos (since Mischief brought it up). He is correct that people let their egos get in the way of learning and it drives me crazy when people are too proud to learn or change the way they do things. HOWEVER, I was playing in a QP match and listened to a veteran player verbally abuse several new players (it wasn't Mischief, this isn't about him or meant to make him feel he is being accused of anything, its just a tangent to the topic he raised). The new players were told their builds were "[insert swear] stupid" and "only a [insert foul language insult] moron would bring that" and then were told off for failing to push at the appropriate time (even though nobody communicated anything). Another player finally challenged the abuser over VOIP by telling him his comments were not appreciated. The abuser replied that "people whose egos can't handle the learning process shoud quit the [insert foul language] game".

Insults, swearing, angry tone/raised voice, sarcasm, belittling language, pressure to quit, threats to shoot their mech, refusing to play while providing a running commentary of other people's mistakes, etc., do not qualify as part of the learning process. People who ignore those things are not people with an ego problem, they are people who want to enjoy a game without being abused. AGAIN, not aimed at Mischief, just a reminder to everyone that sometimes people don't learn because the way the message is delivered shuts down any desire to listen.

And thank you to the many, many veteran players out there who have patiently taught us noobs and pugs about the game in a positive manner. You guys are the reason we keep coming back

[Dex Spero]

xe N on, on 29 October 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Everything you say is right. FP is a game mode designed exclusively for competitive players or at least players with high ambitions. It should not played by casuals.

And because of that, it's dead. Wrong target audience.

I can see your point "xe N on" but there is a problem with it: nobody told me and nobody is telling the other pugs that FW is only for competitive play. We only find out about that AFTER we pug drop for the first time and receive an earful from really angry competitive players who see the FW game mode the way you describe it. It is not a very useful way of teaching new players about the expectations surrounding this game mode. When I finally pushed the FW button for the first time a few months ago no dialogue box opened saying "Warning: You are now entering the competitive side of MWO and will be expected to perform at such-and-such level otherwise you are ruining the experience for everyone else". PGI has taken the view that FW is open to everyone and honestly I don't see how they have any other choice. How do you get good enough to play a game mode if you don't have access to that game mode?

I think the current setup is unfair to both new pugs like me and skilled players on a team like you. PGI has their reasons for not creating a FW tier system or even just a "minor league" where inexperienced teams led by an experienced captain can play in a less competitive atmosphere till they figure out the basics and get called up to the majors. All I can say is:
a) finding a team (especially with numbers being as low as they are) is not nearly as easy as faction players make it sound (I could do a whole separate post on the multiple frustrations involved)
playing a million QP matches just isn't going to give us the necessary skillset to start off in FW at a level that makes sense so we have to pug drop in order to figure out the game.
c) sorry to you and all the other veteran players who are frustrated and bored because the only opponents you can find are 12-pug teams; we are well aware that our lower skill level is frustrating the better players and can only say we aren't trying to ruin anyone's gaming experience.

I suppose we could easily just avoid FW altogether. In fact, most new players do. Then again, unless there are dozens of side games going on somewhere I don't know about (I'm still so new so that could easily be the case), then the faithful pug response to the call to arms is what's stopping FW from becoming teams ghost dropping their way through planets until the next MRBC seasons starts.