43 replies to this topic

[razenWing]

Cause I distinctively remember in MW4 that when the old engineer guy first saw the TBR MKII, he was surprised to see an assault version of the TBR AND carrying JJs, implying that no TBR have carried JJs before the MKII.

Because Sarna doesn't give the date of the configuration, does anyone know the lore behind what broke the TBR in-game? When did the S config come into play?

(Now, I guess you can argue that the PC games take backseat to TT lore, as MW3 is technically not canon, but.... suck it. TT sucks, and PC rules. #pcmasterrace)

Edited by razenWing, 31 October 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[1453 R]

To the best of my knowledge, 'S'-variant OmniMechs came after the Inner Sphere Invasion, and were a Clan response to typical Inner Sphere tactics. You'll note a preponderance of jump jets, pulse lasers, and machine guns - the S variants were built for urban combat against combined-arms enemies, as opposed to (theoretically) being duelists the way most previous Clan OmniVariants were. Jets, M-guns, and accurized close-quarters lasers were far more useful than semi-standard Clan sniping loadouts in the sorts of fights the Inner Sphere forced the Clans to fight.

That's why the Timber Wolf can jump. I think, anyways.

[Bombast]

razenWing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

(Now, I guess you can argue that the PC games take backseat to TT lore, as MW3 is technically not canon, but.... suck it. TT sucks, and PC rules. #pcmasterrace)

Yah... As someone whos start into the Battletech series was Mechwarrior 3...

No.

Anyway, as to your question... I'm not sure about the -S configuration, but just from skimming my poor memory, jump capable Mad Cats show up as early as Tukayyid. So way, WAY before the Mk II, or MW4 (Which takes place during the FedCom Civil War).

[WarHippy]

razenWing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Cause I distinctively remember in MW4 that when the old engineer guy first saw the TBR MKII, he was surprised to see an assault version of the TBR AND carrying JJs, implying that no TBR have carried JJs before the MKII.

Because Sarna doesn't give the date of the configuration, does anyone know the lore behind what broke the TBR in-game? When did the S config come into play?

(Now, I guess you can argue that the PC games take backseat to TT lore, as MW3 is technically not canon, but.... suck it. TT sucks, and PC rules. #pcmasterrace)

Any Omni mech could add JJ in lore. There was even Aidan Pryde in the Jade Phoenix trillogy that put them on his Timber Wolf.

[razenWing]

1453 R, on 31 October 2016 - 10:50 AM, said:

To the best of my knowledge, 'S'-variant OmniMechs came after the Inner Sphere Invasion, and were a Clan response to typical Inner Sphere tactics. You'll note a preponderance of jump jets, pulse lasers, and machine guns - the S variants were built for urban combat against combined-arms enemies, as opposed to (theoretically) being duelists the way most previous Clan OmniVariants were. Jets, M-guns, and accurized close-quarters lasers were far more useful than semi-standard Clan sniping loadouts in the sorts of fights the Inner Sphere forced the Clans to fight.

That's why the Timber Wolf can jump. I think, anyways.

That makes a lot of sense. So in a way, post Invasion timeline jumps to Fedcom Civil War, right? Assuming Bombast's memory is not correct, your "memory" would conform with the MW4 timeline on why a MKII JJ is new to the scene.

Which would also mean... the S shouldn't exist right now... correct?

[Zacharias McLeod]

razenWing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

That makes a lot of sense. So in a way, post Invasion timeline jumps to Fedcom Civil War, right? Assuming Bombast's memory is not correct, your "memory" would conform with the MW4 timeline on why a MKII JJ is new to the scene.

Which would also mean... the S shouldn't exist right now... correct?

No, the post invasion timeline starts after the battle of Tukayyid.

Because at this time the invasion stops and the clans need more mechs for garrion work.

[WarHippy]

razenWing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

That makes a lot of sense. So in a way, post Invasion timeline jumps to Fedcom Civil War, right? Assuming Bombast's memory is not correct, your "memory" would conform with the MW4 timeline on why a MKII JJ is new to the scene.

Which would also mean... the S shouldn't exist right now... correct?

No, as Bombast and I pointed out Timber Wolves with JJ appeared at least as early as Tukayyid which we are past timeline wise.

[Bombast]

razenWing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

That makes a lot of sense. So in a way, post Invasion timeline jumps to Fedcom Civil War, right?

It doesn't. It's the next big event (After Bulldog, which is arguably part of the 'Invasion'), but they do a bit more faffing about inbetween Invasion and FedCom Civil War then usual.

Quote

Assuming Bombast's memory is not correct, your "memory" would conform with the MW4 timeline on why a MKII JJ is new to the scene.

Surprisingly, my memory is correct on this one. Aiden Pryde does use jump jets on his Mad Cat during Tukayyid, so jump capable Mad Cat show up as early as 3052, if not earlier.

Quote

Which would also mean... the S shouldn't exist right now... correct?

According to Sarna (Which is not infallible), the -S shows up in the 3050-Upgrade TRO.

[martian]

razenWing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Which would also mean... the S shouldn't exist right now... correct?

Those "S" configurations on many Clan OmniMechs have existed since 3050.

[JasonIIC]

It's been a while, but didn't the Falcons use jump capable TBR's when they attempted to capture Victor Davion on Alyina?

[martian]

theJason, on 31 October 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

It's been a while, but didn't the Falcons use jump capable TBR's when they attempted to capture Victor Davion on Alyina?

The book doesn't identify those 'Mechs. The text just says "five OmniMechs".

[SMDMadCow]

Pretty sure the S variants first showed up in Citytech 2nd Edition.

[SpiralFace]

SMDMadCow, on 01 November 2016 - 08:08 AM, said:

Pretty sure the S variants first showed up in Citytech 2nd Edition.

We have a winner.

All of the S versions of the mechs are mechs configured for Urban combat.

Typically, Cities in BT are supposed to be "no go" areas due to the Aries Conventions, but when the invasion happened, people where so in the dark and so confused, that they desperately tried to fight them in urban areas when they quickly realized that the Clan mechs completely outclassed them in open terrain. (People in the early invasion days thought that they where fighting sentient Alien Giants when they first came up against the Clan Elementals.) For many IS militias who didn't know what the clans where, they felt they where fighting for their very survival, and resorted to desperate gurilla tactics against the Clans.

As a response, the Clans developed the "S" configs on many of their mechs specifically designed for close range, urban pacification. Especially to be prepared against ambushing antimech infantry squads. Which is why nearly all "S" configurations of all mechs are typically equipped with Machine guns, pulse lasers, Jump jets, SRM's and other weapons specifically suited for close range combat.

[RestosIII]

razenWing, on 31 October 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

TT sucks

[Tordin]

I know its about the TW but came to think of its bigger cousin too. I think the Dire Wolf W for example are the Wolf's Dragoons variant/ favored setup?

Edited by Tordin, 01 November 2016 - 09:03 AM.

[martian]

Tordin, on 01 November 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

I know its about the TW but came to think of its bigger cousin too. I think the Dire Wolf W for example are the Wolf's Dragoons variant/ favored setup?

You are right.

Although keep in mind that any Daishi owner can use the same "W" configuration, if he has needed weapons and equipment.

[razenWing]

So to again interject real quick...

MW4 is not canon then?

[Tordin]

Well I guess MW4 and any *sigh* MW games arent for the most part canon. MWO are based loosely on canon but IMO even less canon than previous battletech games as far as i see it regarding FW at least
Some aspects really should be canon if it fits, because why not? Other aspects (bad ones) should be rewritten to fit the lore.

I really dont understand why some story aspects from the Mech Warrior and Mech Commander games cant be adjusted so they fit with canon and lore. Whats the problem? Feels like a big waste to actually make IMO the interesting stories from MW4 (only MW game I have played besides MC) at all. Like Eric from the Black Knight expansion and Spectre from MW4 Mercs.
Yeah I think it wasnt possible that mercs could participate and win the grand tournament f.example.
And that there were some inconsistence in general with the timelines and events. Shouldnt butcher all that stuff from those games just becasue it crashed with canon lore. Just rewrite the odd bits..

Edited by Tordin, 01 November 2016 - 11:20 AM.

[martian]

razenWing, on 01 November 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

So to again interject real quick...

MW4 is not canon then?

From the practical view - no, it is not. Only the rough outline corresponds with what actually happened in the BattleTech universe.

[Deathlike]

Timberwolf-S was added AFTER MW4's existence (including Mercs). The lore reference in MW4 was accurate at the time (it didn't have JJ access).