32 replies to this topic

[Besh]

Sparrow1250, on 31 October 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

[...] I have seen mentions of high tier players starting a new account and playing the lower tiers. Am I facing groups that have 6 "low tier" players and 6 higher tier so they get pushed into tier 5 matches? So then the higher tier players can rack up kills and get the loot?

[...]

I have tested this rumour . Made and alt . Picked up a Trial Light . Had a good Match -> T4 . 4 more Matches, 3 average to good 1 really good -> T3 .

Also, what is that "loot" you are speaking about ? As well as, what benefit would a hight Tier player playing an alt have from "racking up kills" ?

Ofc. there ARE those odd high Tier players who DO make alts, tank PSR intentionally to stay t5 through the first 20 ( or is it 25 ? ) heavier weighted Games, then INTENTIONALLY go on staying low on Tier to be able to rank high in Leaderboard challenges on their alts. Some of those people also seem to gain some satisfaction from ongoing sealclubbing .

But who cares about those F***s, really ?

Edited by Besh, 31 October 2016 - 07:38 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

^ I have an alt that has intentionally been kept low tier.
I never play it solo though.

I keep it around PURELY for when I am taking out a new player into a match. Sometimes it is best to shield the noobs from tier try hard.

[Leone]

Boogie138, on 31 October 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

Or allow me to clarify:

So YOU cannot make the most of them. How does YOUR inability to do something make it less viable?

It's not about ability, it's about efficiency. I do not do standoffish snipe fests because they are inefficient.

All mechs have a heat limit. An operating cap that can be pushed up slightly with more heatsinks, but in the end, constrains us all. In battle, this heat limit and it's successful manipulation, more than any other factor, often decides the victor in a brawl. Therefore taking the high heat option is a fool's game for me. If I need learn to close upon mine enemy, so be it. I made my decision long ago.

I ask you this, if large lasers are so awesome, why is it that it is the dakka bear that everyone fears? Surely the Kodiak can take lasers just as well? (Hint, the answer is in the low heat constant dps action of the uac.)

Feel free to make a counter argument, but I warn you that we are arguing about the phrase 'viable', which, at it's core, is based around opinion.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 31 October 2016 - 07:49 PM.

[Besh]

Boogie138, on 31 October 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:

^ I have an alt that has intentionally been kept low tier.
I never play it solo though.

I keep it around PURELY for when I am taking out a new player into a match. Sometimes it is best to shield the noobs from tier try hard.

Obviously was not meaning alts like yours in my above post .

[General Solo]

Leone, on 31 October 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

It's not about ability, it's about efficiency. I do not do standoffish snipe fests because they are inefficient.

All mechs have a heat limit. An operating cap that can be pushed up slightly with more heatsinks, but in the end, constrains us all. In battle, this heat limit and it's successful manipulation, more than any other factor, often decides the victor in a brawl. Therefore taking the high heat option is a fool's game for me. If I need learn to close upon mine enemy, so be it. I made my decision long ago.

I ask you this, if large lasers are so awesome, why is it that it is the dakka bear that everyone fears? Surely the Kodiak can take lasers just as well? (Hint, the answer is in the low heat constant dps action of the uac.)

Feel free to make a counter argument, but I warn you that we are arguing about the phrase 'viable', which, at it's core, is based around opinion.

~Leone.

I disagree

If you can out range and damage an opponent from afar, it makes them easier to kill up close. Cuz their damaged right!
Hell, they may not even make it up close.

My experience has been close range combat is inherently more risky than ranged combat and thus less efficient.

Gauss and PPC's got nerfed because long range is better.

Downside is alpha is smaller, target is smaller, aiming is harder, some people whine about it.

[Leone]

Leone, on 31 October 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

If I need learn to close upon mine enemy, so be it.

The phrase here meant to imply whilest minimizing return fire. Even on Boreal Vault and Polar Highlands there are paths that can close into brawling range with the enemy.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 31 October 2016 - 08:12 PM.

[FireStoat]

I started playing late September. My skill was horrible. I then watched a LOT of tutorial videos on Youtube and learned some important lessons.

Buy a microphone and use it. Something as simple as "C4 has 2 lights 1 medium" because you quickly sighted something while taking cover early on in the match has meaning. Or "Moving with you, Atlas." if you are being an assault mech's partner and they're contemplating a push. For them, it's huge to know that at least SOMEONE will attempt to bracket an enemy with additional fire as they move.

Speaking of the above, hang out with heavy or assault mechs while learning the game. You aren't doing the wrong thing and you aren't wasting anyone's time in adopting a Timber Wolf, or a Marauder, or an Assault as a buddy for the first full half of a match or more. You'll be tempted to go off on your own for an injured target - don't do it. Not early on in learning the game. Follow the bigger guy and you will get something to shoot at.

Tier 3 sucks. Tiers 5 and 4 have new players and optimistic happy players (most of the time) that chat it up in microphones and at least call stuff out. In Tier 3 that ends. Most everyone is either grumpy and sour about previous matches that went poorly or they're grouped with others and are using microphones for their local team chat and ignoring the rest of the company. Use the microphone and do your part at least, because 5-6 other players are counting on you and appreciate it.

Lastly, people lose matches by default by being stupid and taking free damage by repeatedly poking their heads over cover to see if snipers are still in place, or what the enemy mech count is currently up to. Just.... don't. God, don't do it. If you were shot from one direction and source and it's all of 8 seconds later, yes, you will be shot again by even more if you decide to roll forward and look again. Move away and find a different angle.

Edited by FireStoat, 31 October 2016 - 10:48 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

it's the players and how they play together or not. listen to this guy lead from the wingman position. if you cannot lead, then help.

p.s no obe talking is a bad sign.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Leone, on 31 October 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

It's not about ability, it's about efficiency. I do not do standoffish snipe fests because they are inefficient.

~Leone.

Please tell that to damn near every comp team still in existing.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Leone, on 31 October 2016 - 07:46 PM, said:

Feel free to make a counter argument, but I warn you that we are arguing about the phrase 'viable', which, at it's core, is based around opinion.

~Leone.

p.s.
You made up your own definition of viable then, which frankly, is not viable.

I just checked the dictionary definition of the word from several sources. None of them even remotely imply that one's personal opinion has anything to do with the meaning of the word.

The most succinct definition of viable: "capable of being done."

Again, if YOU cannot snipe, that does not mean it is not viable. I don't care what your personal and precious opinion on the matter is. Far far far too much observable and quantifiable evidence (again, see: comp teams) that says otherwise.

[Leone]

Boogie138, on 01 November 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

p.s.
You made up your own definition of viable then, which frankly, is not viable.

I just checked the dictionary definition of the word from several sources. None of them even remotely imply that one's personal opinion has anything to do with the meaning of the word.

The most succinct definition of viable: "capable of being done."

Ah yes, Language. A solid choice of entertaining diversion. I would like to point out, looking at words with a slightly nuanced meaning in my own personal lexicon, is, actually, 'capable of being done'. As, you know, you just stated I did it. We all do, it's cool, I'm sure we can reach a middle ground here between our own readings of the word. Let's take a look at that why don't we? I mean, if viable just means "capable of being done", why did you take umbrage with my usage of it? The answer of course, lies in the nuance, the subtext.

vi·a·ble
ˈvīəb(ə)l/
adjective

capable of working successfully; feasible.
synonyms: feasible, workable, practicable, practical, usable, possible, realistic

I think where the quibbling happens is over the idea of viable meaning, in part realistic, practical. Which in turn, brings us back to a question of mech design. You see, I find a sniping base mech build impractical because it deals less damage per heat, per tonne, than a brawling build. And whilest the brawling build can advance at full speed, the sniping build must need backpedal slowly, and be over taken, or turn and flee, abandoning the oppourtunity to return fire.

Yes, the sniping build can out-range the brawler, and therein lies the game. That's what I play, trying to out maneuver and outplay my opponents on the field of battle. A game within the game for me, that keeps me coming back.

So yes, thanks to the overtones of practical and realistic in the meaning of the word viable, I do not, in fact, choose to use it to refer to large lasers. Yes, they exist in game, and yes, I've seen people do really well in them. But I've never sen a large laser duelist. And when it comes down to me against another mech, I want all the advantages I can get.

Boogie138, on 01 November 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

Again, if YOU cannot snipe, that does not mean it is not viable. I don't care what your personal and precious opinion on the matter is. Far far far too much observable and quantifiable evidence (again, see: comp teams) that says otherwise.

And that is why I do not bother with the comp scene. I've tried, but wasn't heard. I was asked to bring This Travesty when my own FS9-S runs cooler, with shorter burn times for nearly the same damage on a mech that is itself fast enough to make up for the reach disparity in weaponry, and has some streak protection to boot.

Needless to say, it got outbrawled. Which is, by the way, how lights actually fight eachother.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 01 November 2016 - 05:49 PM.

[Void Angel]

Sparrow1250, on 31 October 2016 - 06:04 AM, said:

When we are reaching the end of another challenge (as it seems at the end of most challenges), all of sudden it's like I'm facing vastly better opponents. Here I am PUGing along in tier 5 win some lose some. Actually starting to win more then lose. Then the end of a challenge comes up and it seems like I'm playing against tier 3 (or high 4) players on every drop.

If I understand the tier system correctly as a tier 5 player I shouldn't be facing tier 3 players maybe high tier 4 at times,

Two things: First, you can be matched with players up to tier 3, though the matchmaker tries to match within your tier before allowing that variance. The maximum range is three tiers, so imagine a spreadsheet with the tiers on it, and you're placing a plastic overlay that's three cells tall - anywhere you can fit both yourself and that overlay is your maximum matchmaker range, but most of the time you're going to be in your own tier.

Second, events in general tend to have an effect on how players act in matches, particularly toward the end. Players will often try to game the event to get the most points - this is why you may see a lot more LRMs when events are on - and as players achieve the event prizes they want, they may drop out and play different games, because they've played more than usual and feel like a change. For example, this "event" was really a collection of events running concurrently. Once the leaderboards, for example, were completed, many people who participated in them seriously took a break, or at least drastically reduced their playing times. As the event wound on, you'd expect to see a changing demographic of player: the hard-core completionists will all be out, but maybe not all day, while other gamers may drop out due to playing more games than usual - and still others who play rarely might actually be on more because the event entices them. Finally, players may play at different times.

What all of this means for you is that player behaviors will change in unpredictable ways, and keep changing up till the end of the event. Then there'll be a lag of a couple-three days before things return to normal. The best way to deal with the craziness is to anticipate it. Players will tend to focus on more long-range builds, and be more likely to hang back (ten'll get you twenty that's what's causing your rofflepwnings) and try to let their teammates take the damage for them. Adjust your build and tactics for this, and try to pay attention to what your team does - and doesn't do - that seems to be causing your problems. Try longer-ranged builds, and focus on staying alive while dealing damage for as long as you can. If push comes to shove, take a break for a half hour.

And, as an early response said, it is likely just luck - if you're getting veteran players, there's just as much of a chance they'll be on your side. The only thing that might shift that balance against you over time is that your subconscious playing habits were developed based on different teammate behaviors, causing you to do things that don't fit in with your current team.

PS: PSR is not an Elo system: it does not comparatively rank people (such as the top 20% of all PSR ratings being Tier 1.) The reason we all advance more slowly as we level our tier is that our K number (the rate at which our actual PSR changes) has decreased to the standard rate, and we're not advancing as quickly as a result.

Edited by Void Angel, 01 November 2016 - 07:05 PM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

i've reached the middle of tier 5 so making an alt would put me in...tier 5. i'm recovering from the wrist surgery i had yesterday so I'm going to sit and rewatch my recorded games and see where I go wrong.

I found the perfect mech who when you cannot torsotwist, lol, the Stalker L. i bought the warhammers to get it and i did the pilot trees very fast, then bought another and did the trees and then bought a 3rd. I was surprised at how fast I got to master them.

My hell is doing the trees for all those IS Lights and Mediums I bought. i have so many to level I do not play one that is done which hurts me getting out of Tier 5.5. I think sometimes of leaving the IS light and mediums alone until I reach Tier 4 but then I'd hate to slip back down.

as far as what the OP was talking about, it seems to me that if tier 3 players were added, then each side should get some of them. As I tried to show in the video above, it is working with others that wins games. I had ran with this guy before and i knew his style and that an attack through D5 works if we go together so I played cheerleader as he did his wingman game.

i've found out that the biggest difference in a match is made by you (or me). I no longer run off by myself and i get on to those that do.