8 replies to this topic

[DGTLDaemon]

With the upcoming balance changes in the November patch, the problem of existing builds being hit by the nerf bat rears its ugly head once again. There is an eternal conflict between the need for balance adjustments, on the one hand, and the need to somehow protect the interests of players who have invested time, effort and money into their existing mechs, on the other. I'd like to suggest one possible way of resolving this conflict to the satisfaction of both sides by offering the following options to the players for a certain period (for instance, two weeks) after application of each patch which involves balance changes:

1) Option to sell all mech variants (and the associated omnipods in case of Clan tech) affected by quirk changes for their full C-Bill price.

2) Option to sell all weapons affected by balance changes for their full C-Bill price.

3) For each mech variant affected by quirk changes, option to "un-master" it and have the corresponding amount of XP injected back into the player's account as GXP to enable the player to immediately master another mech instead of it.

4) For all weapons affected by balance changes, option to sell the associated weapon modules for their full C-Bill price.

5) For all weapons affected by balance changes, option to "un-learn" the associated weapon modules in the skill tree, and have the corresponding amount of GXP injected back into the player's account.

Of course, all those options must be implemented as in-game functionality, which will require a significant amount of work from the developers. However, doing this will eliminate all potential conflicts between the player community and PGI regarding balance changes. Players will be protected from having their hard-earned mechs and loadouts flushed down the toilet, and PGI won't have to deal with player outrage anymore. Let me know what you think

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 01 November 2016 - 03:39 AM.

[MechWarrior849305]

Like some fish cares...

[D V Devnull]

I'll support, even as likely as this is to never be implemented. Too many toxic jerks out there who seem to love telling people to adapt or leave. Hell, my work on my Catapults was harmed by PGI's balance changes, just to name one of many.

~D. V. "Sick of Pilot Effort being trashed..." Devnull

[VonBruinwald]

I see a vicious circle forming:

• Buy over quirked mech and meta it to the Periphery
  
• Wait for the nerf bat to come swinging
  
• Get a refund
  
• Buy the next top mech and meta-IIC it back from the Periphery
  
• Nerf bat
  
• Refund
  
• Repeat

A "better" alternative to this cycle would be to employ a season system. Lock the 'mechs at the end of each season. After this point your 'mech configurations are locked and rebalancing occurs, if you did edit your 'mech after this point the the new seasons stats come into effect. Of course this would lead to a power creep as you'd have to buff all other mechs to account for one op 'mech from a previous season. Nerfing that 'mech through indirect means and leading to the same argument (my op meta-mech is no longer op).

Rebalancing will always upset the meta-crowd, we shouldn't accommodate for them as their very style of play doesn't make accommodations for people who aren't running the same builds.

[D V Devnull]

VonBruinwald, on 02 November 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

Rebalancing will always upset the meta-crowd, we shouldn't accommodate for them as their very style of play doesn't make accommodations for people who aren't running the same builds.

I would agree with this. However, we also need to keep in mind it's not just the Meta crowd who can be hurt and made angry by these Nerfs. Sadly, PGI tends to do OverKill when they do Nerfs.

For reference, I have a rather Non-Meta, Master-Skilled, Support-Style Catapult CPLT-A1 build specific to my own Piloting Styles. That design has been horribly harmed by the Nerf Bat, causing me to not pilot the Mech very often anymore. Unfortunately, I'm left doubtful that PGI will ever provide some token-sized Buffs to fix the Mech's strength that would make the minor difference needed on a Mech whose weapons are ALL Ammo-based and in the arms. Knock off the Missile Pod Arms, and that poor thing is a useless punching bag that everyone might as well ignore and leave to go hide.

Heck, I think PGI forgot that not everyone is a brawler. Worse, they really need to quit repeatedly trashing a Pilot's personal learning of how their Mechs behave. Right now, the Kodiak's KDK-3 Variant is OverPowered, but that Mech lacks a lot of Quirks. The only proper answer is to Buff everything lesser by comparison, but PGI's mentality has caused them to fail in doing that too. An idea like the one suggested in this thread would leave too many problematic openings in PGI's coding, sure. But, it's the only other possible answer when the sane option isn't used. Using a "Season-Specific Lock" might help it a little, but it ultimately doesn't cure the core issue or any extra arguments, which is too many Mechs being Nerfed too far and then not receiving buffs to make up for more powerful Mechs being introduced.

~D. V. "I'm beginning to think I would see PGI's logo if I looked up 'headache' in the Dictionary." Devnull

[MechWarrior849305]

Massive overnerfs to already existant mechs in game are the best way to introduce new FOTM meta mechs, which come with pre-order programs, a.k.a. donated/P2W mechs. So... Don't you wanna buy some mechpacks by the way, hmmm?

[Jep Jorgensson]

They better refund us all 100% of the massive costs we have poured into everything instead of screwing us out of half as if we had sold them all back. That is my only concern regarding this issue.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Im going to reply because the guy who started this might not know...
We are getting refund in C-Bills and XP/GXP for all the modules and XP we have spent on them, because they will no longer exist after February
New skill tree will come, and no more modules, nerfs and quirks! You will, in fact, use all of that extra XP on customizing your mech's quirks

[GhostEel]

I believe that an aggregated refund for weapon modules in the form of the C-bills and GXP spent on them is exactly what PGI has told us that they are going to execute. I don't see any need to allow the sudden selling of any BattleMech or equipment you feel like offloading for full price ... because you will be able to apply your XP individually to each of the 'Mechs you have decided to acquire in order to enjoy quirks in the exact same way if you want to! Weapon ranges and cooldowns were just an additive matter and a reason to spend millions per pop as well as to juggle the things around.

I do not intend a rant; that isn't what this is going to be. What I want to provide, though, is an explanation in objective and in subjective terms just to present a clear idea that you aren't being bamboozled from anything for which you have paid.
So please bear with me for a short time.

I have been playing an alt account for a little more than two years virtually as I would as a free-to-play player, and at the moment I own 29 BattleMechs, from all weight classes, most mastered, fully customized and which have access to all of the 'Mech and Weapon skills and modules they need, and I'm sitting on a decent bundle of C-bills to boot. There is only one pilot skill for Consumables which I do not have, and I think of this as excellent progress—not necessarily as a matter of personal performance—but...as clear and directly investigated evidence or proof that as a free-to-play experience MWO is 100% success-friendly. PGI generated a really good multiplayer game. I compare my f2p acct (which I have dropped dollars for a few times, and I can live without Hero 'Mechs) I compare it with my Founder account where I have more than 120 'Mechs mastered, with every possible skill for modules maxed. At times MWO has been my primary PC recreation, but I don't recall ever having decided to grind except during events, especially ones with bonuses and premium time...(so there is a strategic ideal, I guess, if you want to look at it that way)
This is not a game that is designed to necessitate grind. For events, it invites intensive playing—and the rewards are good!—but there is nothing detrimental to competition if you don't have everything. This game is designed to be an excellent platform for enjoying your BattleMech experiences even if you have the luxury of sitting down to play it only a few times a year...or whenever. MWO supports that.
When it comes to what you've already got, those are 'Mechs for which you can (will be able to) recreate the bonuses you enjoy. If you still aren't contented, then understand that—no matter how the incoming refunds will strike your fancy and no matter what in-game experiences of which you feel like you might suddenly be deprived—PGI will never be able to dissolve or delete the fun and good times you have already had with your owned BattleMechs.
I think that without the weapon modules, if anything, you would be better off either with a toned-down economy (not recommending; just supposing) or a modest re-arm and repair cost. . .which should be handled in terms of customization (that is: not "repair and rearm or don't" but "repair this, that, this, replace armor here and here and replenish two-and-one-half tonnes of ammo"). If you don't administer your in-game resources frivolously, then the game's economy will be survivable; if you compose your arsenal of BattleMechs in a way that really resonates with you (and other players will harmonize with that), then you will be successful.

Have fun and good luck, everybody! Hi, PGI!

Edited by GhostEel, 27 December 2016 - 08:19 PM.