73 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Khalcruth, on 08 November 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

From a practical game design standpoint - there aren't force fields in this universe.

"Using the Lostech protective energy damping grid of the Steiner Stadium on Solaris VII as a base, Blackwell engineers were able to reduce the level of physical shielding with the energy field assisting in keeping the engine's fusion reaction in check. As rumors of this technology began to leak out in 3053, Archon-Prince Victor Steiner-Davion of the Federated Commonwealth entered into protracted and ultimately fruitless negotiations with Blackwell, becoming apparent either the rumors were false or Blackwell would not sell the technology to anybody outside of the Dragoons."

Right from the Light Fusion Engine entry, those enegry grids that they are talking about are more or less a force feild.

[Jman5]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

And the generators are located right next to the doors because....? They ran out of conduit and extension cords to power the doors from afar?

Look, I know the devil's advocate game is fun, but not when the future if the only market-viable Mechwarrior game hangs in the balance.

I thought you were just asking how it could work, not "should it work this way."

Honestly there all sorts of fun solutions for how they could make the gate opening more interesting and less silly if they wanted to invest the time.

For example, you could add a new game-mode for 4v4 where players have to sneak into the enemy base at night, smash the door open and then get out before the enemy patrol stops them. Or they have to get close and upload some virus to the door control program to give their side complete control. successfully completing that mission now unlocks a 12v12 invasion game.

[Darth Hotz]

Jman5, on 08 November 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

You have these really heavy counterweights built into the side walls of the door that are held up by an electric winch. When the power is on, and the door is closed, they remain lifted. When the power goes out, nothing is holding them up anymore so the counterweights drop (gravity), turning a gear that slides the doors open.

Sad, but this is the best explanation for a question I also had on my mind since phase one.

Maybe someone can also answer why the fortress designers decided to put these generator right next to the door, where they can be destroyed from the outside and how the Inner Sphere could conquer the galaxy with military architects that are too stupid to keep a door shut.

[Metus regem]

Jman5, on 08 November 2016 - 10:43 AM, said:

I thought you were just asking how it could work, not "should it work this way."

Honestly there all sorts of fun solutions for how they could make the gate opening more interesting and less silly if they wanted to invest the time.

For example, you could add a new game-mode for 4v4 where players have to sneak into the enemy base at night, smash the door open and then get out before the enemy patrol stops them. Or they have to get close and upload some virus to the door control program to give their side complete control. successfully completing that mission now unlocks a 12v12 invasion game.

All things that could should have been done in the first place. But minimally viable product....

[Single Mom]

No doubt designed by the same idiots who thought combat vehicles should have feet.

[1453 R]

Two thousand ton blast doors open when their power source is removed for the same reason 'security' doors at Freddy's require power they cannot, for some reason, simply draw from the grid in order to protect you from horrible demons-possessed monstrosities.

Because video games, man. Video games.

[BuckshotSchell]

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

Set to open upon loss of power... okay, how does it open without power?

Its esay to do that with hydraulic systems. when the power goes down the pressure holding the doors close drops to 0 because the hydraulic pumps are down. This is basic stuff accomplished with pumps and valves etc... However the most likely and realistic answer is .......



IT IS A VIDEO GAME! NOT REAL LIFE!

[Suko]

Serious answer: It could be on a dead-man's switch so that when power fails, the door opens. This is common in aircraft where in case of hydraulic failure, the landing gear come down automatically. Basically, the hydraulic pressure is keeping the gear (or door in this case) shut, but once power and hydraulic pressure falls, the gear (or door) open.

What would the purpose of this be in a hardened military defense position? No clue. But you asked for HOW it would work, not WHY they would build it that way. =D

[Dirus Nigh]

Why are the generators for the door sitting above the wall in plain view of an attacking force?

[Lyoto Machida]

BuckshotSchell, on 08 November 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

Its esay to do that with hydraulic systems. when the power goes down the pressure holding the doors close drops to 0 because the hydraulic pumps are down. This is basic stuff accomplished with pumps and valves etc... However the most likely and realistic answer is .......



IT IS A VIDEO GAME! NOT REAL LIFE!

So since it's a video game and not real life, maybe the generator isn't really a generator, but a door control room where the guy pulls the lever to open and close. Once you hit that room with enough damage, he slumps over on the lever and the door opens...sorta like this:

[Felicitatem Parco]

"Why have doors/choke-point at all?"

Actually, from the very beginning of Community Warfare we have been asking for open maps that offer several options of approach without the funneling / "grind zones" we have in the CW/FP maps. The choke-point map design has been, in my opinion, the single worst aspect of CW/FP and is the reason why the mode is so deserted...

You get more variety from a Quickplay mission with no respawns, and the maps with respawns offer less variety even though you spend more time there on a per-mission basis.

I don't do CW because I think ChokePointWarrior: Online is dull, repetitive, and highly predictable.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

2 types of systems

Normally open- apply power to close it

Normally closed- apply power to open it.

Suko, on 08 November 2016 - 11:03 AM, said:

What would the purpose of this be in a hardened military defense position? No clue. But you asked for HOW it would work, not WHY they would build it that way. =D

Same engineers that decided to put many of the weapons mounts down below the waistline.

[0bsidion]

Metus regem, on 08 November 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

I did, I sent them a long document about it, as well as better base layouts, ideas for targets with in a base and a better idea for defenders to be exiting from underground destructible hangers, rather than coming in via drop-ships... but like all things sent to PGI, offering well thought out and worded advice, it is ignored.

You should know better, us players have no valid opinions or input to offer. Sure, they could have done something like destructable gates, but gates that spring open and leave the base vulnerable to attack in case of power failure made too much sense to ignore. Just accept that PGI knows best.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Yes, we know the base designers are stupid.

It doesn't have to be that way. At least we, the entire player population, can all agree that the premise of the FP invasion mode is bad and needs to be scrapped. Can we bomb the hell out of PGI with this at MechCon?

[Metus regem]

0bsidion, on 08 November 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

You should know better, us players have no valid opinions or input to offer. Sure, they could have done something like destructable gates, but gates that spring open and leave the base vulnerable to attack in case of power failure made too much sense to ignore. Just accept that PGI knows best.

I did that back, when I thought PGI gave a damn about the game, back during the beta for CW... now though, I wouldn't waste my time doing it.

Prosperity Park, on 08 November 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yes, we know the base designers are stupid.

It doesn't have to be that way. At least we, the entire player population, can all agree that the premise of the FP invasion mode is bad and needs to be scrapped. Can we bomb the hell out of PGI with this at MechCon?

Why bother, in Russ' own words, we (the players) don't have any idea of what is best for the game, only PGI knows that.....

[razenWing]

For people that say that the power is there only to keep the door closed... sorry, that's not a thing. Especially not a 2000 ton blast door thing.

Though a better question, why did future designers think it's a good idea to have big @ss doors on 2 random choke points? If you expand the map (like in real life), and mech are free to attack from a 360 degrees angle, doors are the most useless piece of wasted metal in the existence of the universe. You are better off using the same material and build 2000 cannons

(Like backwater Kentares IV in MW4, even the crappy palace have like 500 turrets that will shred you to pieces if you didn't deactivate them in time)

(Also, you have mechs coming from a literal dropships, not unloading from Hrothgar, but literally dropped you from the air in an instant... you can fly like 5 of those, drop 40 mechs, base over, door or no door. Dumbest crap ever.)

[Khalcruth]

Metus regem, on 08 November 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

"Using the Lostech protective energy damping grid of the Steiner Stadium on Solaris VII as a base, Blackwell engineers were able to reduce the level of physical shielding with the energy field assisting in keeping the engine's fusion reaction in check. As rumors of this technology began to leak out in 3053, Archon-Prince Victor Steiner-Davion of the Federated Commonwealth entered into protracted and ultimately fruitless negotiations with Blackwell, becoming apparent either the rumors were false or Blackwell would not sell the technology to anybody outside of the Dragoons."

Right from the Light Fusion Engine entry, those enegry grids that they are talking about are more or less a force feild.

Fair enough, although I can't find any other reference about an energy dampening field in the Steiner coliseum, and I don't know of any other references of force fields use a defensive measures. Then again, I vaguely recall a mission from one of the early Mechwarrior titles (mechwarrior 2 maybe?) where you have to drop some sort of forcefield that's protecting a city / compound. I remember spending hours and hours playing the game before I figured out how you were supposed to get through it. I'm not sure this kind of set-up is really a canon-thing for Battletech in general or this time period more specifically.

In any case, even if it made sense from a background perspective, I don't think if you changed the steel blast doors to force fields it would alter the way the game mode works (or from a balance perspective needs to work).

[Metus regem]

razenWing, on 08 November 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

For people that say that the power is there only to keep the door closed... sorry, that's not a thing. Especially not a 2000 ton blast door thing.

Though a better question, why did future designers think it's a good idea to have big @ss doors on 2 random choke points? If you expand the map (like in real life), and mech are free to attack from a 360 degrees angle, doors are the most useless piece of wasted metal in the existence of the universe. You are better off using the same material and build 2000 cannons

(Like backwater Kentares IV in MW4, even the crappy palace have like 500 turrets that will shred you to pieces if you didn't deactivate them in time)

(Also, you have mechs coming from a literal dropships, not unloading from Hrothgar, but literally dropped you from the air in an instant... you can fly like 5 of those, drop 40 mechs, base over, door or no door. Dumbest crap ever.)

With Drop ships, where is the defensive AAA.... You know the stuff that makes those Drop Ships want to land safely out of harms way to drop off the mechs....

[Big Tin Man]

It's been hit upon several times already, normally open vs. normally closed.

Brakes on trains are the exact same. They are all designed to clamp closed and brake unless the pneumatics are applied (by the locomotive) to open the brakes and allow the car to move. This prevents runaway train cars on side tracks. For MWO, choose your secondary power source for motion being hydraulics, pneumatics, electromagnetic, mechanical spring, etc and there is your source of motion after the generator goes down and you have your reason.

Now as for the stupid location of said generators...

[WrathOfDeadguy]

The doors open when the generators go down because it is easier to program, rig, and animate a sliding door simply opening than it is to convincingly portray it getting blown to bits by a full company of 'Mechs. That's the reason, plain and simple.